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Orange is the new Burke

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,417 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    All I’m saying is the school could do with patching up that tarmac



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,306 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    what makes you think the burke children were born out of wedlock?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,162 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    I don't think Enoch would approve of the outfit!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭Trigger Happy


    I wonder would Enoch be claiming the dole at the moment. Sure isnt turning up at the school gates trying to get back teaching ample evidence that he is looking for work?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 470 ✭✭archermoo


    I'm pretty sure showing up at the place that sacked you even though there is a court order requiring that you not do so doesn't qualify as looking for work.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,768 ✭✭✭Tork


    Isn't he turning up at the school because he believes he hasn't been sacked. He is there to work but the authorities in the school won't let him near a classroom.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,306 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 470 ✭✭archermoo


    I believe his "logic" goes that the school had no right to suspend him, so the court had no right to issue the order for him to not go to the school. And since he doesn't accept that the school could suspend him obviously they didn't have the right to sack him. So since they had no right to sack him, he still works there and is showing up to teach class.

    Of course since he doesn't accept that he has been fired I can't imagine that he would try and get jobseeker's benefit, since as far as he is concerned he is still employed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,235 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Is he still going to the school gates?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,768 ✭✭✭Tork




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,596 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    Would the Burkes have had been allowed free access to a TV growing up in their house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,768 ✭✭✭Tork


    If he was to start claiming JSA, would the fines from the court order be deducted from that?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Yes - Until those fines are paid , any source of income that he might have will be garnished to pay the fines.

    Right now he doesn't have an income and he has thus far refused to provide the courts with any statement of assets.

    That will be a point of discussion when he next comes before the courts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    The "Immaculate Conception", the notion that Mary was conceived without sin, is a Catholic doctrine, and and as non-Catholic Evangelicals, the Burkes would most likely reject it as heresy. Also, it has nothing to do with being born out of wedlock. They (like most Christians) would believe that everyone is born with original sin, regardless of the marriage status of the parents. Of course, it goes without saying that they would also believe that sex outside of marriage is a sin in itself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    If they had free access to a transvestite growing up, we probably wouldn't be in this situation now 😋



  • Posts: 1,640 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Some of us were wondering about this,.

    Apparantly, it was reported just this week that Enoch has filed an appeal to his dismissal, therefore, he must recognise that he has been dismissed. But if its true (that he filed an appeal) its been kept very quiet.

    I presume that hearing would be in the WRC?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    I would say no. Serial offenders who get fined for no motor tax, no TV licence, illegal parking etc. would I assume still get their social welfare payment as they would starve otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,306 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    garnishing of wages, sure. garnishing of social welfare, not likely. I remember a few years they tried to introduce it and got knocked back because social welfare was considered the minimum amount required to live on. In the end they capped it at €2 a week or something equally useless.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    An appeal would he heard by "an independent appeal panel appointed by the board of management" of the school. I'm not sure if he has sought such an appeal.

    What he is doing, though, is seeking a trial in the Court of Appeal against the entire disciplinary procedure. Mr. Justice Brian O’Moore of the High Court delivered a judgement on the 14th of February in relation to "case management" of this. (PDF: https://www.courts.ie/acc/alfresco/77e86861-4fed-4522-a0a6-724205d3212e/2023_IEHC_78.pdf/pdf#view=fitH)

    In this judgement, it outlined that while Burke originally described any possible trial at the Court of Appeal as "an abomination" (this was when he was trying to get the High Court to quash the proceedings), he's now actively looking for one at the earliest opportunity. The Judge's directions give the timeline for working towards the appeal Court of Appeal hearing itself:

    (a) Witness Statements on behalf of the school to be delivered by close of business on the 22nd of February 2023. Any discovery is to be made by the school by the same deadline.

    (b) Witness statements on behalf of Mr. Burke to be delivered by close of business on the 28th of February 2023.

    (c) The school's legal submissions to be delivered by close of business on the 3rd of March 2023. 5

    (d) Mr. Burke's legal submissions to be delivered by close of business on the 10th of March 2023. 

    Once all that is done, a trial date can be set, but it seems the Judge (and Burke and the School) want it within the current term (Hilary) which ends on the 31st of March. So it currently looks like that trial will occur in the second half of March. Burke thinks it will last 2 days, the judge originally thought it would last 6 days (and the school didn't object to this), but given that Burke says that his side of the evidence will only take 1 day, the Judge is scheduling it for 4 days.

    Also, according to that judgement, his actual dismissal does not come into effect until 21st of April 2023. i'm not sure why that is, and the Judge mentions it was a surprise to him:

    The proposed directions were not accepted by Mr. Burke, in essence because his "purported" dismissal from his teaching post at the school is due to take effect on the 21st of April 2023. This fact was not known to me until receipt of Mr. Burke's emailed letter of the 3rd of February. 

    and

    As Mr. Burke submits, and in particular in light of the significance for the parties of the 21st of April, revised directions should now be made to facilitate the possibility that the trial might take place this Term.

    If this is true, that Burke's actual dismissal does not come into effect until 21st of April 2023 (and the Judge describes it as a "fact" and is basing scheduling the appeal around the date), then it's likely Burke is still being paid by the Department of Education.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I wonder if there is some clause in the teacher contracts about them having to be paid until the end of the current term or something of that nature?

    So because the dismissal happened in January, his dismissal doesn't officially take effect until the start of the new term - which based on the dates above is likely when the school comes back after the Easter break.

    If he is being paid , then at least we know there are a few months worth of salary that can be taken back off him for the fines..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,851 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,306 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Yeah, I can't figure out the April 21 date, but the term time could be it alright.

    The Revised Procedures for Suspension and Dismissal of Teachers outline the appeals process, and there's 10 days to lodge an appeal, then there's 10 days for a submission to the panel by the teacher, and a further 10 (from the date that the panel receive the teacher's submission) for the school to lodge their submission, then the hearing has to be scheduled for within 20 days of that date. So the maximum amount of time for the hearing to occur would be 50 days from the original disciplinary hearing. I guess the're working days, so add in 14 weekend days and 2 public holidays, and that gives 62 calendar days.

    His hearing was on the 21st of January, so that would bring us up to the 24th of March, which is a lot sooner than the 21st of April. But either way, if he is appealing the dismissal via the guidelines (and not by going to court, which he certainly is doing), by my napkin calculations, the 24th of March is the very latest date it could happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,851 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    I think you're the only one who doesn't understand my gibberish.

    To thine own self be true



  • Posts: 1,640 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The article definitely mentioned an independant, 3 person panel - I'll look and see if I can find it again.

    Re: pay - its a private school, so is he still paid by D/Ed?

    (edit) Article from Journal added. It was in the Indo too, I believe.

    Mark Connaughton SC for the Co Westmeath School said a decision had been taken by the school last month to dismiss Burke from his teaching position.

    Burke, counsel said, has appealed that decision.

    His appeal is unlikely to be heard before late April, and will be considered by an independent three person panel, counsel added.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,842 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Would Enoch's action constitute harassment of the student at this stage? Could the student get a restraining order against him to prevent him coming to the school?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 470 ✭✭archermoo


    He's already got a court order requiring that he not go to the school. He's ignoring it. I don't think another one would change anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,306 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    there is already an order designed to prevent him attending the school. Do you think another order would make a difference?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,758 ✭✭✭Allinall


    What would be the point?

    There is already a court order saying he can't go near the school.

    It would be just another bit of paper.



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