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General Premier League Thread 2022-23 - mod note in OP 12/03/23

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49,286 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    wonder is it an accountancy thing? Becuse the fee is after January does it count in the Summer window? Maybe it makes no difference. Only reason I can think of for it to be so easily triggered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49,286 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Interesting - PIF trying to claim in the US that they are linked to the Saudi sovereign, having passed the owners and directors test in the PL by saying they absolutely are not linked to the sovereign.

    Obviously nothing will happen, but they have effectively admitted that they lied to the PL to gain ownership of Newcastle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,797 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Accepting the 90 point plus requirement without addressing the elephant in the room is silly though.

    There is very little most teams can do so get 90 plus unless you are city (aot Liverpool striking gold in three seasons).

    You state it like it's the new target teams will have to achieve but I doubt anyone other than City ever will.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,463 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 258 ✭✭It is a Dunne Deal


    Qatari bid in for Man Utd. There'll be some change of tune from their supporters if this goes through!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,526 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    At least the Qatari colours are the same as United's already so they wont have the embarrassment of wearing some shtholes national kit like Newcastle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,880 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    You can see it in recent posts in their thread. The justifications will be immense. All those years saying all those things about how City were a fake club, etc. Forgotten in the blink of an eye.



  • Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Fork in the road time for United.

    Continue to build their own success. They appear to be improving massively this season.

    Or,

    Turn into another fake sportswashing entity like City, PSG and Newcastle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,501 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    You are talking through your butthole to be fair. Fans of all other clubs say that Man City's success is fake because they couldn't have been competitive without that investment and inorganic growth.

    Some United fans may have had an issue with the Arab owners from some moral standpoint, and feel free to search through the United thread for posters who both criticised City morally, and are defending the idea of Qatari ownership of United. If you can find those few posters I will certainly support you in calling out that hypocrisy.

    Personally, I don't really have any moral issues with that region or any other as I don't demand everywhere to be the same as where I come, or call on them to change according to how my country changes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,501 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    What do you mean by United? This is basically a foreign business enterprise selling a huge company to the highest bidder.

    The management, players, fans, legacy of the club are not included in the decision making process.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,880 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    As I say the justifications will be immense. It’s now not where City’s money came from, just that they ever had any. And accepting a murderous Qatari regime with open arms is a sign of your enlightenment.

    This aspect will be good craic until you realise three sports washing projects are going to be duking it out for all the marbles until the bubble in football pops significantly (and the fourth sports washing entity owned by the same lads who own Utd can meet them in the knockout stages of the CL every so often, fun).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,880 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    It never seems to occur to football fans that not supporting the club is an option, does it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    How did you come to the conclusion that I haven’t considered it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,679 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    I get that as a United fan some will claim I am now learning the Qatari national anthem but I first said it when Saudi's were buying Newcastle, "sportswashing" is such a crap hollow term.

    I get the theory of it, its pretty basic but in actuality I've never in my life heard anyone (Football/MotoGP/F1/Formula E/LIV Golf etc) EVER claim that any of the Qatari's/Saudi's/Chinese are lovely lads really due the quality of a sports player/track/team/event.

    "Sportswashing" clearly doesnt work as a concept.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,880 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Drumpot, my friend, on this depressing day my quarrel is not with you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,502 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    We passed the point of unfit owners when the Saudi takeover was green lit. A sadistic oppressive regime as they come from that part of the world. When there was a push back against downing street even got involved to get it over the line.

    You have people justifying these owners then by pedalling lines like "we can change them through football and teach them western values". They don't want to change that is the very reason for buying these clubs, to clean their image by spending cash on the squad and community.

    All these states rank near the bottom when it comes to human rights and freedom of press.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Sportswashing clearly works, when the goal is to deflect news stories away from your murderous regime and gain political favour outside of your home country. In football it also gives you an army of ready made defendants pretty much overnight - look at City fans most recent moment of putting a banner together for the QC defending their owners actions.

    If you think these people are pumping billions upon billions into sport for the love of the game, then you’re completely wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Look up “Soft power” in football.Why do you think they are pumping billions into these events/clubs? What do you think they are getting out of it?

    It does work , these lads aren’t buying these clubs or sports for the enjoyment.

    They don’t share our cultural values , maybe that doesn’t matter to many people , but they are manipulating us to ignore it. They are buying our silence/support so they can do whatever they want back home. Yeh there isn’t much we can do except maybe stop supporting the club and while “ what difference does it make is a fair question” I don’t think people should ignore the ruse.

    If I continue to support United , it’s With my eyes open. It’s a corrupted transaction that leaves any future success tainted. I’m human and over time May forget or not care but right now it’s a pile of sh*t that this is allowed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,502 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Sad thing is United don't even this type of ownership, they have spent more than most clubs over the last decade, it was just spent poorly. Without the debt on the club they are equipped to spend what they want.

    It benefits Qatar only as they know it's a huge profile club that took a massive fall and a fan base desperate for success again. The glazers are absolutely despised too so anyone that comes in is a hero.

    Same reason they have been trying to buy perennial London losers, Tottenham. Turn a desperate fan base into their undying supporters.

    Sports washing in football absolutely works.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,679 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    But it doesn't cover up shìt it doesn't deflect from anything. Jamal Khashoggi has been mentioned regularly since the Saudi Newcastle takeover. There was dozens of Qatari articles everyday in the lead up to the World Cup.

    Sportswashing covers things up about aswell as Kim Kardashian. Granted people with the IQ of a lobotomized goldfish probably will buy into the spiel, but the overwhelming majority simply dont, otherwise there wouldn't be reams of those regimes crimes published daily.



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  • Posts: 14,734 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I said on our own thread that the only one, i wouldn't call it, positive but potentially far in the future is a potential for change, its not that i think that the powers that be change but change is brought about for the people who suffer, i mean that is what everyone should want if we are talking on the moralistic side of things right? I dont want Qatar owners and i think everything that they do and did should constantly be talked about brought up for as long as they are the owners of the club.

    Saying you want or hope for change isnt in any way trying to justify ownership. You see it with big companies these days in western countries all jumping on social media to show support for some cause or another now i dont believe it is out of any great morale want to make the world a better place but it doesnt change the fact that the message is a good one and positive for the world as a whole.

    Now i wouldnt expect change in my lifetime and far from it but it can hopefully happen someday.

    Do you think its wrong to condemn the owners and actions while hoping that change can be brought about for the people most affected? the opposite side of that coin is hoping they dont is that where you sit?

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭DM_7


    It is not new either, Hitler had his Olympics. Putin had his World Cup.

    Deflection is not the only purpose of sportwashing. It is a big part of the plan to diversify income streams and open doors for acceptance of investment from states that were reliant on oil money.

    Arsenal have been sponsored by an airline from that part of the world for a very long time, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Benfica, Lyon even the FA Cup share that sponsor with little complaint. Qatar have PSG and Bayern already. We know about City.

    The value of association with clubs comes over time as more and more people's first knowledge of these countries or groups is linked to their heavily invested companies. They will associate the location with positive experiences and think well of them without ever interacting with them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,501 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    Exactly. People who probably didn't know there was a country called Qatar before their World Cup bid have since then been bringing all their crimes to worldwide attention. How does sportswashing work if before you got involved in sports nobody paid any attention, and now they are a murderous regime?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 30,533 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    I've tried reading the first sentence of that five times and it makes my head hurt the more I read it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,679 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    But the Olympics didn't cover up the Holocaust, or the World Cup Putins assasinations.

    They might provide a smidge of good publicity in a river of shìt but its still just a river of shìt.


    Or am I just greatly overestimating peoples intelligence?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,879 ✭✭✭Dave0301




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭Brendan Flowers


    People are talking as if Sheikh Jassim already owns MUFC and has used a few hundred million of his own money to rebuild the squad. Most United fans still want the Ratcliffe bid to be successful. But no matter who the new owner is, the majority of United fans just want the club to be debt free, no huge sums of dividends take out each year, and a board that prioritises footballing success ahead of commercialisation. They don't want a billionaire coming in spending their own personal wealth on signing new players. All they want is to see the profits generated by the club each season invested back into MUFC. So as long as either Jim Rafcliffe or Sheikh Jassim don't start breaking FFP rules, don't use illegal methods to get money into the club, don't "loan" their own money to the club for transfers, then I can't see how the owner of the club would de-value any future success MUFC have on the pitch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Why do you think dictators love to be associated with high profile sports people/clubs/events or institutions?

    In fact why does any political equally like it and jump on any positive bandwagon story possible?

    Because they are then associated with the success or the event regardless of what they do back home they have a social standing abroad that gives them protection and influence. Also back home , holding world cups and olympics is standard 101 “strong man” leader projection to their supporters.

    Remember the “Bertie bowl”? Hundreds of millions wasted on his ego project. He’s no dictator but the same ego logic applies, it’s about influencing your legacy and manipulating people to think positively about you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,502 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Why wasn't Chelsea bought buy an Arab state? They have the money to blow any US bid out of the water. Big high profile London club up for sale and they didn't win the bid.

    Because it's the wrong profile, no disenchanted fan base, an current owner who was adored, plenty of recent success.

    They don't buy these clubs for the love of football.

    5bn for Manchester united is pocket change compared to the 220bn they just spent on the world cup.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,154 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    Dont know much about Ratcliffe , apart from he is Britains richest person , but is ther dirt also on him , or is that rumours. People rarely come that wealthy been good guys, we thought Moshiri was great at Everton , how nieve I was,



This discussion has been closed.
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