Advertisement
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.

Remap and Insurance

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,441 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    If your car looks 'stock' .. I wouldn't worry about any software upgrades.

    Never mind what other posters say.

    Insurance asserers are usually retired gardai in their 60's +, with no technology ability (or interest) in discovering any SW mods.

    They get paid a small amount to check for physical damage.

    Some people on here watch a little too much CSI , and don't realize how the real world actually is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    The key element is that you have a duty to disclose ‘all material facts’ when you take out a policy of motor insurance. If the car is higher powered than standard that is a material fact and there could be an issue in the event of a claim.

    It’s not quite as simple as the policy being entirely invalid. Motor insurance in Ireland is issued in accordance with the road traffic act 1961, as will appear on the top of every insurance certificate. If the driver is insured, it will be very difficult for the insurer to deny any third party liability - but damage to your own car may potentially be another matter if it can be proven that you misled the insurer as to the risk.

    An insurer could conceivably seek records from the cars control modules after an accident, but the significance of this seems to be misunderstood by previous posters. The whole concept of insurance is that pays out after an accident in which the driver was negligent in their use of the car. So speed or the manner of driving for example won’t impact the validity of a policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Fair enough,like I said I'm not that knowledgeable on it.

    However if I'm putting all my eggs in the basket of 100% of assessors being an elderly retired non tech savvy Gard I'd be worried.

    The only assessor I know doesn't fall into that category.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Am I reading this correctly?

    Not one (except all of them that looked modified)

    I'm not being smart,I appreciate the reply as you seem to know what you're talking about but that sentence contradicts itself.Whats the arbitrary line between looks modified and looks factory? After market wheels? A wrap? Increased BHP through a remap?After market gull wing doors? Big difference between all of them.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,195 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Absolutely 100%. Not one assessor in my experience has plugged in a diagnostic / code reader into any car Ive had in for an assessment for insurance repairs. Even ones that were involved in serious accidents. I never said they plugged in modified ones either any where in my post.

    What I said was that ones that looked modified were scrutinised more than a factory spec of the exact same model.

    So the assessor sees huge wheels / big exhaust that dont look like they fit right they then proceeded to test the vehicle more thoroughly ie suspension, check the brakes etc. Still not plugged in by the way and never seen one plugged in either.

    In my opinion and just an opinion assessors were more interested in using visual mods in order to try refute a claim.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,934 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    That no longer applies, since S.8 of the Consumer Insurance Contract Act (CICA) 2019 came into effect on Sept 1st 2021. There is no longer a duty on the part of the consumer to disclose 'all material facts'. The procedure now is that they ask you questions, you provide truthful and answers and that's all there is to it, you have no responsibilites beyond that. It's well summarised in this document on the AIG website at the link below. Summary of the essential change follows....

    For consumers, their pre-contractual disclosure obligations have been changed. CICA removes the duty to disclose all material facts on consumers and replaces it with an obligation for consumers to answer all questions the insurer asks honestly and with reasonable care. Failure to do so can result in the Insurer being able to rely on proportionate remedies for misrepresentation.

    But if you already have a policy and you get the car remapped, I think that would constitute a material change to the risk profile and you would be obliged to notify the insurance company.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,278 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Some interesting comments in this clip about the possibility of Garda investigators examining a vehicle after a crash


    Also interesting to note that the usual Boards.ie policy of not permitting posts that advocate illegal action doesn’t seem to apply in Motors forum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,934 ✭✭✭✭coylemj




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,221 ✭✭✭Eoinbmw


    It's not illegal to remap a car!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,278 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It’s illegal not to tell your insurer about the power of your vehicle.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,221 ✭✭✭Eoinbmw




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,278 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Under the law that requires you to be honest when entering contracts. So when you’re asked “has this vehicle been modified in any way “ you need to give an honest answer to have valid insurance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭HBC08


    No such law (and I say this as somebody who's not well up on this)

    Usual standard of posting by you.

    I was hoping to get some real info on this (and have done )

    Can you please keep your nonsense to the gender war threads etc,good man.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,221 ✭✭✭Eoinbmw




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,278 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Are yez seriously suggesting that you get to lie on your insurance proposal form and still have the insurance company on hook to pay for your messes?

    Go back and read the Act quoted above about answering questions honestly - S.8 of the Consumer Insurance Contract Act (CICA) 2019.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    A good point, although I suppose the insurer will have adapted its line of questioning to be suitably comprehensive, yet general enough, that the consumer would ultimately be responsible for non-disclosure in the vast majority of scenarios likely to arise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3 dualclutch


    Was reading this and just wanted to give my own thought

    Before people jump down my throat, call me boy racer or whatever, I’ve the below car NCT’d, tax’d and insurance paid. Not looking for a lecture and just wanted to make a point.

    Full licence 6 months, have a Bora, it’s mapped to 190bhp with smoke…straight piped..lowered…tinted etc

    Not declared like every other young lad but if anything ever happens it I won’t go claiming and will just lie to the loss of it…just thought this point was worth putting it across



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,278 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Do you expect your insurer to pay out for catastrophic damage to other people or property resulting from your ‘enhanced’ engine? Insurance isn’t just about damage to your own vehicle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,197 ✭✭✭Eggs For Dinner


    Obtaining insurance by deception is fraud and opens you up to prosecution. I would never non-disclose any matter to insurers, because of the world of pain it brings. In my 43 years in the industry, I have seen numerous cases where modifications have caused cover problems and refusal of indemnity. However, I've never come across one for re-mapping



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,934 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    No, the legislation anticipated that exact scenario - you have to be asked specific questions, they can't get away with 'catch all' questions and try to fall back on them afterwards. 'You should have told us that when we asked you if there was anything else we might need to know about you or your vehicle' is not allowed.

    (2) The pre-contractual duty of disclosure of a consumer is confined to providing responses to questions asked by the insurer, and the consumer shall not be under any duty to volunteer any information over and above that required by such questions.

    (3) Where the insurer requests the consumer at the pre-contractual stage to provide information to the insurer, the insurer shall be under a duty to ask specific questions, on paper or on another durable medium, and shall not use general questions.


    https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2019/act/53/section/8/enacted/en/html#sec8



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,934 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    +1 Making a false or misleading declaration to obtain motor insurance is specifically covered by S.64 of the Road Traffic Act 1961.

    64.—(1) A person shall not, for the purpose or in the course of obtaining the issue of an approved policy of insurance or an approved guarantee to himself or to another person, or for the purpose of securing his or another person's participation in the cover afforded by an approved policy of insurance or an approved guarantee, commit any fraud or make any representation or statement (whether in writing or verbally or by conduct) which is to his knowledge false or misleading in any material respect.

    https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/64/enacted/en/html#sec64



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 18,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Advocating casual fraud really isn't good advice, and will inevitably have consequences for the guilty party or others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,278 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Here’s some examples of the questions asked on proposal forms;

    Zurich: Has the vehicle/trailer been altered/modified in any way from manufacturer’s design or specification? (e.g. side windows, additional seating) Yes/No If Yes, please provide details:

    Aviva: Is the car converted, adapted or modified in any way? Yes/No If you have answered Yes to this Question, please provide the following additional information: Type of modification, Date of modification

    RSA: Has your car been modified or converted in any way? Yes/No. If Yes, give details.

    It’s hard to see any way that you could answer these questions and not mention a remapping without breaching the obligation from CICA Act 2019 to answer questions honestly. So here we have a Boards thread with several posters advocating illegality, and no action taken, despite reports to moderators.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 154 ✭✭ordinaryfella


    All those people no longer on run flats, or bought better brake pads etc are in for a nasty surprise when they go to make a claim. "Sorry, you have Sony Xplod from 2004. Your insurance is invalid".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,278 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Condoning or encouraging illegal action was always a boards no no. Here's a specific example from Motors, from way back.

    Not telling your insurer about a modified engine is clearly illegal, but these posts are being let stand, despite having been reported.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,445 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Just magnetize it and reverse through Halford's at speed, and you'll have her finished.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 18,046 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Modification has to be "material" to be of interest. Superior brake pads wouldn't be imho. Bigger brakes probably would be however.

    Basic stuff in contract law.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,246 ✭✭✭omega man


    Interesting discussion. I’m in my 40s and have 20 plus years with Axa and no claims but was declined last week for a remap and BMW M Performance brake kit (OEM kit supplied and fitted by BMW).

    I had innocently assumed I’d have no issues with the brake kit at least so I was taken aback. Basically they said it’s linked to “drag racing / rallying” and heavily modified cars etc!

    Not surprised now that many don’t declare mods but that’s not for me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭HBC08


    Haha! Just saw this now.

    How much money am I spending on cars?

    What is your threshold for "too much"?

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,388 ✭✭✭Damien360


    That is utterly ridiculous. Something designed to stop the car better and is OEM parts and insurance doesn't like it. No thinking whatsoever. "Computer says no" type thinking.



Advertisement