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Solar for Dummies.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    I was not aware lifepo was common in solar batteries and couldn't find anything to support that view.

    Glencore don't seem to support that view.

    https://www.glencore.com/who-we-are/amazing-materials/cobalt-in-batteries

    It seems people are happy to enslave children for a 33% increased energy density and better cold weather capability.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    whataboutery and false equivalence

    What? Finished here so no need to reply. Lifepo4 very interesting and wasn't aware of it. I'd be very surprised if batteries in Ireland are cobalt free.

    Interesting thread, carry on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Actually most Lifepo4 batteries used in Ireland are Cobalt free. E.g The Givenergy battery that I have

    giv-key-features.pdf (midsummerwholesale.co.uk)

    Specifically.....

    Our Cells DO NOT contain Cobalt which generates its own oxygen when stressed, causing an ignition source.

    Your right to bring it up, as cobalt is indeed sourced from very questionable places like the congo, but many manufacturers have moved on from cobalt in recent years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    I wouldn't bother responding, a quick search shows they're into crypto and while I don't judge people I do call BS on someone preaching about energy conservation while feeding the beast. All very disingenuous.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,894 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Well then be surprised. All off the shelf storage in Ireland (eg pylontech, dryness, weco,puredrive etc) and DIY batteries (except for early banks built from 18650's) are LFP

    Tesla powerwall is li-ion, but that's not approved in Ireland. Only installed outside too.

    I wouldn't have li-ion in the house. LFP are much much safer.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Do spend time reading up on cobalt reduction, it's interesting and has been in place for years. The home storage batteries mentioned are LFP, excluding Powerwall.

    The Tesla Model 3 (made in China) has LFP batteries. These cars are already more ethical than a diesel as cobalt is used to make low sulphur diesel. Half the cars in Ireland indirectly use cobalt without knowing it.

    Getting philosophical we in the west enjoy cheap products of all types at the cost of the environment and people's health in far away countries. Focusing on one component let's the others off the hook.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Thanks all. Was not aware at all of prevalence of LiFePo4. It's good news to me as that was putting me off solar. Less conflicted now and apologies if came off a bit sensationalist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    You could read it as sensationalist, but it's a fair point and one that should be addressed. Now you (and others reading this) are more aware of the situation. Similarly 18 months ago, while I knew the chemistry of cobalt and why it was being added to batteries, I wasn't aware of the ethics of how it's mined. It was only when I looked into it I learnt the full story.

    It's great to see people raise these points though - sure we'll never learn anything unless people raise issues. If they turn out to be fine, that's ok - but not raising them is worse and we'll never improve things



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭DC999


    Sadly it’s all a balancing act. We need huge amounts of raw material to feed renewables to reduce harmful emissions (from solar panels to batteries and all in between). Yet those come at a cost from wherever the raw materials are ‘farmed’. We got an EV that has lithium in the battery. And I know the lithium mining is very questionable in places in terms of the labour force. Plus it uses wild amounts of water in places that often don’t have spare water. So I’m very aware our families 1st world conveniences have an impact elsewhere.

    But if I didn’t buy a 2nd hand EV, I’d still be putting petrol in the air.

    I don’t know about cobalt. But I expect it’s a similar story in terms of labour issues for any raw material that comes out of the ground in vast quantities and is largely a manual process. And maybe it's been the same with every industry before until it got larger and more controlled, started off badly and improved. I know that's naïve to think people focus on welfare about profit.

    Heaps of the stuff we Europeans buy is from China / Asia and labour laws are not at the level of Europe. But that’s why they can make stuff cheaper, as we all know. Manufacturing (or gathering resources in this case) moves to low cost economies. Would I like my family to be caught in that cycle? Of course not.  



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    I didn't read/look at the original link above, but cobalt is dodgy. The reason being is that one of the main sources is the Congo and how it's mined is "very questionable" (things like warlords getting young teenage kids to work in slave camps etc)

    Your right of course, nearly everything we do has some environmental impact and we've done a piss poor job for 200 years on that in the pursuit of progress. Still there's hope. Companies like Nike/Addidas etc were called out 10-15 years ago about child labour for making their runners and have for the most part cleaned up their act (irrespective of paying numpties like Kanye West) Same with the battery manufacturers here. There's been a shift away from Cobalt where possible to avoid this minefield.

    For sure, there's still some environmental impact with all the solar installation. Energy has to be spent mining, transporting, installing them, but overall it's the lesser of two evils thankfully.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭kerdiff


    Can any tell me why my battery says static, should it not be discharging electricity this late in the evening. The battery says its on 21%.




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,968 ✭✭✭con747


    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭kerdiff


    Hi Con, I havnt a clue about the system only installed recently and just trying to get my head around the app and all the readings on the app, any information would be much appreciated.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,894 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Generally 20% is the bottom cut off for the battery.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,968 ✭✭✭con747


    Most batteries have a cut off point when discharging to prolong the battery life, a lot are set around 15-20%.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭micks_address




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,968 ✭✭✭con747


    I know PureDrive have it set at 20% I think but it is warrantied down as low as 10%. 4% seems very low?

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭kerdiff


    So all good then?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,968 ✭✭✭con747


    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭kerdiff


    BO of Soluna EOS5 5K Battery Unit



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,968 ✭✭✭con747


    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    It's a Givenergy (I have the same battery) 4% is fine as they have a reserve "behind the curtain". The 8.2Kwhr battery is actually a 9.6Kwhr battery under the hood. So depleating to 4%is perfectly fine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭micks_address


    quick question re the grant ... seai were awaiting my ber.. i got it last night.. its gone from b3 to a2 with 7kwp panels.. installer said they have advised the seai of it.. i don't see a section where you can upload it on the seai website? i guess they can just check the property to see when last one was publised? anyone have recent experience of how long it takes money to hit your bank account once they process the application?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,564 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    I've started the process of at least getting quotes for an install. Have asked 6 companies to quote. So far I've heard back from 3, of those. 1 company ignored every single bit of info given to them re: annual use, roof aspect, what I wanted from system and indeed the included info that due to some work I have on at the moment (in Malaysia but WFH) that I'm not available 8am-9pm currently so don't ring me, email please. Cue 4 missed calls and some WhatsApp msgs asking me to call them between 9-5 to "nail down some details" 🤷‍♀️


    Unfortunately my chimney is on the front of my roof. So that limits me to 9 panels there. There is scope for more on the NNW side but even with optimisers I don't know if it would ever offer a cost effective return. 1 company has suggested that as an option and it's one I may yet go with.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭Manion


    9 Panels south and 11 North/North West will be very cost effective at the guidance price point. Have a look at https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/tools.html for your total energy generation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,564 ✭✭✭✭banie01




  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,894 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    The installer is the one that uploads it, not you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭simpsimp


    We were exactly 2 weeks from BER publication to SEAI approval (last November).



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭micks_address




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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Not really a solar question but on my ber assessment new windows and external doors would be an improvement and that there is a grant available for them? What grant is available for windows and doors?



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