Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans in OP**

Options
13031333536248

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I understand. When looking at Bailey, I am always wondering why the motive would always exclusively have been Sex? And if so, would he really expected his chances at this time of the night? I would guess he would not have made it before 2am to Sophie's that night? Would Sophie even have opened the door to somebody she barely even knew? ( an expensive bottle of French wine wouldn't have done the trick as well.... )

    Also, was he known to cheat or did he ever cheat on Jules?

    Could it be that Bailey had a totally different motive we all don't know about?

    I was often thinking about some freelance work, something that would have meant big money for him? But he would hardly have discussed business at 2am, plus killing Sophie would not have benefitted him in getting some freelance contract?

    Was maybe Sophie a threat to Bailey in some other form we don't know about and killing her would have ended that threat?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Xander10


    Where murder occur in such circumstances, it's normally to cover up some forced act of sex by the perpetrator to not get identified by the victim.

    There was no evidence of any sexual assault in this case. Which for me rules out that theory and to kill for a mere rejection would seem an extreme conclusion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,653 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    “I think Bailey remains the prime suspect because of all the circumstantial evidence against him. It's not enough for a charge but it's far more than anyone else”

    We don’t know what evidence there is against anyone other than Bailey, because we’ve been fed only Bailey tales for the last 25 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,653 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    I wonder how he knew she was home and alone?

    Don't bother with the crap about him following her around Schull on the Sat, or the lights seen from Hunts hill.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,102 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Maybe he did see her in Schull, not follow here around but just see her, enough to know she was in the area and not in France.

    And on the night maybe he didn't know she was home or not, maybe he was trying his luck .

    Don't expect a randy man who was drinking whiskey and admits that whiskey makes him different to act rationally.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    I tend to agree it's the most likely. He was lucky not to leave forensic evidence. Harbison being late helped the killer. As for Bailey giving samples, I expect he knew the Gardai could take samples anyway if he was arrested. He was a good journalist in the UK and would have known about forensics. It looked good to offer the sample.

    Also, he was known to walk around at night.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Bailey had been extremely violent when drinking whiskey. He had been drinking whiskey that night. One book quotes a barman who said IB drank a whiskey in one go. He had other alcohol taken too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Xander10


    Which would make it difficult for him to track any distance to meet someone at a remote location. His violence that we know of was domestic, which unfortunately is all too common in Households with alcoholics



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm sure a journalist such as Bailey would have learned she was in Schull. A small place he would have heard of or seen her.


    In small town Ireland you wouldn't need to be a journalist to know " your wan from France is back".

    I'm sure someone used to ferreting out information well knew Sophie existed and would be there from time to time.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I am no forensics expert, but I would believe that DNA evidence would have lasted for quite a while, also it wasn't raining that night and wasn't windy at all. I would agree on the motives Bailey giving DNA samples voluntarily as the Guards could have taken it anyway.

    I would also agree that a murder scene where sexual violence or rape was attempted would look different. Bailey was no fool either. They would have found his DNA on or in Sophie or would he have put on a condom? And even then he could have left pubic hair incriminating himself rather quickly. Would he have hiked over to Sophie's with condoms? I find that very hard to believe, but again, yes, it's possible.

    I find that theory published in that article a possible scenario. Whether it was more likely or less likely I can't say. It's certainly a line of enquiry worth following up on.

    Her husband not travelling to Cork upon Sophie's death is very odd. Yes, he may have had other previous commitments, yes, the marriage wasn't in order, but still, if your spouse dies and is murdered in a foreign country one would expect the husband to come to the place where she died.

    How much would a divorce have cost Daniel Toscan du Plantier? And how much did he "save" by his wife's untimely death? Her death certainly came as a convenience to him, plus he was already busy with his next wife....

    This situation should have raised more than just one red flag.


    The Gards are to blame for this and that's the reason the case has never been solved.

    I couldn't care less about Bailey if he was to rot in a jail but still, motive and evidence beyond reasonable doubt are clearly missing.

    Real evidence is also missing for all the other theories, - drugs, or the ex husband or some other sexually motivated killer.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's also incorrect to say all Gardai were corrupt and that the Gardai always cover up their own. Sometimes they do.Bailey came to Garda attention because he raised many red flags



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm sure it was windy the following day. I will have to look it up. Slight wind would be enough. It's a few cells not an army tank



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,561 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    There's documented evidence by GSOC and on the Bandon tapes of Garda malpractice on this case.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No it wouldn't. He was able to drive home. Enough whiskey to make him violent need not incapacitate him



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Xander10


    I thought Jules drove home?

    Plus all that whiskey in his system an hour later would have left him conked out asleep



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I doubt he intended sexual assault or murder. Probably thought he could seduce her. Bailey would since he is deluded in many aspects such as his being a poet of any note.

    Rejection with Sophie's well known cutting attitude plus whiskey could have triggered him. She would not have been nice in her rejection. Her husband said that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,561 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    In the annals of crime, not just in this country, can anyone find another example of a murder, in the manner being described for Bailey here? With a woman at home, setting off in the middle of the night, with drink taken, just to try his luck with another woman he had no real relationship with? And then on being rebuffed, brutally murdering the woman?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The forensic Garda said in one of the documentaries that protecting an outside scene is very difficult. It's very possible DNA was lost to the weather



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A journalist in a small town would easily discover that



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Xander10


    It's ludicrous when you think about it.

    A burlgary ? makes to logical sense either.

    A dispute of land/boundary issue? more plausible



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,561 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    We're not talking about a few DNA cells, but about blood, which should have been left either on the victim's nails or briars in the vicinity, based on the Garda version of the story. But nothing was found - no fibres, no hair, no blood traces. Nothing. Except a sample on Sophie's boot which we must conclude did not match Bailey.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,102 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    I find that theory published in that article a possible scenario. Whether it was more likely or less likely I can't say. It's certainly a line of enquiry worth following up on.

    The article is from the countries foremost conspiracy theorist.

    I don't think there is another journalist in the land with less credibility.

    Yet you think it's a plausible scenario.

    We are probably on the third generation of Gardai since the murder.

    Some of those that joined after the murder have since retired.

    But in all that time some violent, corrupt, dead Garda from Bantry is being protected.

    No officer has come forward about them, none have put their head above the parapet to solve the most high profile case in the country and give closure to the family.

    Why is that do you think?

    Maybe because it's all BS.

    And you keep going on about how it's worth following up on.

    But you have no idea if it was or was not followed up on.

    All we have is this Martin O'Sullivan (if he even exists) saying he was surprised there was no public appeal for the car, or no door to door enquires.

    Maybe there was no need for a public appeal, maybe Matin was making it up, maybe someone else saw the car and was able to identify the driver who was then ruled out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭robwen




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,102 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    You are thinking about it too rationally.

    This was a murder, there is nothing rational about a murder, or the circumstances that lead to murder.

    The rational thing for Bailey to do that Sunday night was to go off to bed.

    We know that Bailey had weird sexual fantasies, we know he was violent, we know he acted strangely when he had been drinking whiskey, we know he had a narcissistic personality,cwe know he walked the roads at night.

    So toss all those in together and add a bit of irrationality to it and it's plausible that he struck off for Sophie's house expecting to seduce her, got rejected and ended up killing her.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    You also keep going on the same way. Incidentally, I don't see Gemma as credible at all. I also don't think that this theory originated with her. You're just quoting Gemma to make this theory less credible and tricking into believing, it's all exclusively her concoction.

    The endless "Bailey did it" was one of the prime reasons why the case was never solved, - that kind of thinking was too narrowminded.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,561 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    There's no evidence of sexual assault here. Sexual assault followed by murder of the victim is common.

    That case has evidence of a deliberate planned attack. No suggestion, at least in the information I could find, that the perpetrator went there under any pretence that they would be welcome?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,561 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I don't know what your remarks on rationality has to do with the question I asked. My question speaks directly to plausibility.

    There's nothing rational about a murder? I really don't know what point you think you're trying to make. A husband getting rid of a wife to avoid an expensive divorce and marry a mistress... The husband is thinking rationally based on their internal logic there. They are operating from (morally repugnant) but understandable motives.

    If it is so plausible a theory, why are there so few other examples of it as a scenario \ motive.

    To suggest your scenario is plausible i.e. probable is without foundation.

    No, evidently your scenario is not plausible. Possible but not plausible.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,102 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    The endless "Bailey did it" was one of the prime reasons why the case was never solved, - that kind of thinking was too narrowminded.

    But you only think it was narrow-minded because you have no other information.

    You don't know what other lines of inquiry were followed until Bailey was arrested.

    You don't know why those other lines of inquiry did not lead to arrests.

    The most likely reason that they didn't lead to arrests was because the people investigated were not involved.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 28,561 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    In this case, I don't think it is necessarily the most likely reason. I say this because of the incompetence and malpractice of AGS in this case, and the inherent difficulties of following up properly on lines of inquiry involving another jurisdiction.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



Advertisement