BoJo banished - Liz Truss down. Is Rishi next for the toaster? threadbans in OP

25-10-2022 02:18PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791300#Comment_119791300

When you're at the level of 10 million or 100 million, that comfort box has been ticked.

It would be as ridiculous as me saying that Starmer wants to be PM to enrich himself more and reach high places.

Sometimes we have to accept that politicians want the job because they believe they may actually be good at it.

Peregrinus · 25-10-2022 02:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791304#Comment_119791304

I'm sorry, eskimo, but nobody looking at the ministerial appointments made by Johnson or Truss can seriously think they were based on "perceived competence for the role". Truss chose people based on personal loyalty; Johnson chose people with an eye to excluding anybody who might be more competent than he himself was, and anybody who wasn't prepared to humiliate themselves by publicly endorsing Johnson's lies.

I think there's a good case to be made for saying that the Tories did not make token appointments on the grounds of race, but you greatly weaken that case by putting forward an alternative account of Tory appointments which is plainly incredible.

25-10-2022 02:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791304#Comment_119791304

Tell that to Conservative party membership. They’re raging and the reason is obvious

25-10-2022 02:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791351#Comment_119791351

The point I was making was specific to his claim - namely, that they were not selected because of the colour of their skin. I don't reject the idea that other factors were at play, such as those you refer to, but it definitely wasn't because of the colour of their skin.

25-10-2022 02:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791367#Comment_119791367

Do you have any evidence that the Conservative membership is actively racist toward Rishi Sunak?

You do understand that they may have preferred Truss on policy matters alone?

The difference on policy between the two candidates was enormous.

25-10-2022 02:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119790999#Comment_119790999

Spot on in terms of the party and some of their supporters alright

VinLieger · 25-10-2022 02:32PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791328#Comment_119791328

Nobody is disputing Starmer is rich but theres a vast difference between 10 million and 100 million worth of comfort. Example Rishi owns 4 properties that the estimated value of is twice that of Starmers total worth trying to hand wave away how wealthy he is when

Statistically Starmer is orders of magnitude closer in total wealth to the average Briton than he is to Rishi.Yes Starmer is wealthy by average standards but Rishis is off the charts wealthy.

Also I still think its hilarious you didn't even read the express article you were quoting and just lazily scanned the google snippet, says so much about you.

farmerval · 25-10-2022 02:34PM

I assume that Sunak is starting from a strong position, the fact that none of the other wings of the party could muster less than one third of MP's means no other wing can claim real justification for getting more say than they can now.

With Boris gone and the ERG's two head girls Truss and Braverman having been brutal in their 5 minutes in the spotlight Sunak has a clearer run and greater grip than anyone since the referendum.

He has loads of headaches to deal with, allied to the long term need to get the Brexit idea working as something other than a headache, whatever form an improvement may take.

25-10-2022 02:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791381#Comment_119791381

I was born and raised in the Home Counties. My mother is a member of the Conservative party as are many of those in her bridge club. I cannot talk to my family about race and immigration (nor could I with my conservative grandparents) as the racism is deep seated. “Black as the ace of spades” would be a term they’d use between themselves in conversation and have got really angry at my parents for this kind of language. They rail against ethnic diversity. Worse, they don’t even see it as a thing or a problem in their own thought process. Maggie Blackamoor sketches in Little Britain were funny because they were true. You’re utterly disingenuous in suggesting racism is not at play across a substantial part of Tory party membership. There’s not much point talking to you about it because youll just deflect

Patser · 25-10-2022 02:37PM

He's going to be another Teresa May.

He hasn't the charisma of Johnson to force the party to follow him, but he won't be as disastrous as Truss. Instead he's already said he'll try unite the party. So like May he'll end up acting as a referee/tight rope walker trying to appease the ERG while also trying to get public back on board for Tories before next election. He has no leeway financially to do this though, as markets have shown that any crazy plan like Truss' will be torn apart globally, but in the meantime everyone in the UK is expecting government support due to inflation over there going wild.

So like May he'll just end up trapped between impossible demands- ERG want tough guy, Tories want populist policies to gain support, Public want help, Markets want sensible policies, and his Treasury is broke.

So he'll smile, and limp along, stop digging the hole Truss started but in no way start to fill it in.

And in 2 years there'll be a general election, and he'll lose badly and be replaced

ancapailldorcha · 25-10-2022 02:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791439#Comment_119791439

It's pretty clear why Mordant had to step down. Either she realised hers was a doomed cause or someone in the party told her Sunak was the man for the job but that'd mean circumventing the membership vote as there's no way they'd ever vote for a person of colour. My own experience of southern Tory types is that they're incredibly arrogant, selfish, cruel and racist though I'm not directing that at anyone you're related to or are otherwise friendly with. It's just my own experience and it's thankfully quite limited.

25-10-2022 03:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791439#Comment_119791439

With respect, one personal anecdote of alleged racism by your parents cannot be used as grounds for smearing 150,000 Conservative members.

25-10-2022 03:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791615#Comment_119791615

I have the experience of being around the parish. And heading the conversations But, of course, deflect

You can always refer to the comment section of the telegraph. You don’t have to look for to see comment that he is not as British as other candidates

just like the Obama / Kenya thing

and I’m not smearing all. I am telling you what a substantial proportion of them are like.

Quin_Dub · 25-10-2022 03:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791615#Comment_119791615

Fair enough perhaps.

But when it is the vast majority of anecdotes from people then a pattern begins to emerge doesn't it?

25-10-2022 03:16PM

in other news, looks like he’s keeping Coffey and bringing back Braverman. Surprising moves

ancapailldorcha · 25-10-2022 03:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791674#Comment_119791674

Looks like he wants to tread on as few toes as possible. Sensible move.

Igotadose · 25-10-2022 03:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791615#Comment_119791615

But wait, why did Jerry the local Tory leader call into LBC to say 80% of the Tory vote will be lost because Sunak's not British enough?

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/sangita-myska-dismantles-callers-claim-that-rishi-sunak-isnt-even-british/

Definitely worth listening to the whole thing to hear Jerry out.

25-10-2022 03:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791694#Comment_119791694

I thought keeping Cleverly and Wallace might be enough. I just don’t think Coffey and Braverman are competent

It’ll ease cross party tensions but make the cabinet a little more rough and tumble. I guess that’s the trade off

Brussels Sprout · 25-10-2022 03:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791674#Comment_119791674

Absolutely crazy to keep that pair. Off to a bad start if true.

Quin_Dub · 25-10-2022 03:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791653#Comment_119791653

You can always refer to the comment section of the telegraph

You can indeed..

"Devoid of English Character" - Lovely...

25-10-2022 03:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791694#Comment_119791694

I wouldn't agree about Braverman. You can't be banging on about “integrity, professionalism and accountability” one minutes and appointing someone as a minister who had just been sack for breaking the Ministerial Code. It will be the first real sign that nothing has changed...just the same old shite.

Maybe it's just a rumour.

ancapailldorcha · 25-10-2022 03:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791727#Comment_119791727

Nor do I but that isn't the point. It's about keeping the party from tearing itself apart.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791771#Comment_119791771

Oh, Braverman is just a hateful moron and nothing more. I think it's purely a way of keeping the nutters quiet by letting her abuse refugees which is what they seem to want most.

I think this tweet is a nice summary:

https://twitter.com/SloleyChris/status/1584612240879386625

Igotadose · 25-10-2022 03:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791797#Comment_119791797

As you've so brilliantly stated early on on UK politics threads about the Torys, "The cruelty is the point."

It really is a party of performative cruelty. BTW I've shamelessly stolen that line and repeat it to all and sundry when discussing HMG.

ancapailldorcha · 25-10-2022 03:44PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791812#Comment_119791812

Much as I love getting praised, I heard it from the incredible Alex Andreou of Oh God, What Now.

Quin_Dub · 25-10-2022 03:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791797#Comment_119791797

by letting her abuse refugees which is what they seem to want most.

Certainly looks that way.

The vast majority of the very negative comments in the Telegraph today make some reference or other to having been "let down on Immigration" by all concerned.

Reading through the comments on one of the Telegraph articles about Sunaks speech they seem to fall into 3 roughly equal groups

One group seem to feel that it's worth giving him time to see if he can sort things out - Mostly "let's wait and see" type comments

Then there is the "He's part of the problem and is owned by the Globalist WEF etc. etc." Conspiracy group.

And then lastly we have the "Failed us on Immigration and not really one of us" group.

Brussels Sprout · 25-10-2022 03:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791769#Comment_119791769

Amazing. I never even realised the Telegraph had a comments section - I never go on there since it's behind a paywall.

If those comments are representative then it's basically the same sentiments as the Daily Mail comments, only far better articulated. So the same level of racism, only coming from people with a higher level of education!

25-10-2022 03:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791797#Comment_119791797

Yeah, I get why he would do it but it will be very contentious thing do as his first real act as PM. Her breaking the Ministerial Code is an easy excuse to use to not appoint her.

Igotadose · 25-10-2022 03:54PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791769#Comment_119791769

but for the "english character" bigotry, that commenter was pretty much spot on. Sniveling, incompetent... check, check...

Brussels Sprout · 25-10-2022 03:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791821#Comment_119791821

I've heard the guys on the Pod Save America podcast use that same expression about Donald Trump and the Republican Party for a good few years (not sure if they themselves coined it though)

25-10-2022 03:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119791860#Comment_119791860

I only got it because they have a 3 months for a pound intro offer. I have it diarised to cancel, because some of it really is poisonous

I have to give them some credit though. They had plenty of anti Boris articles on Saturday and Sunday morning, including Saturdays lead and a eviscerating column by Iain Duncan Smith basically telling him that he was done

BoJo banished - Liz Truss down. Is Rishi next for the toaster? **threadbans in OP**

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BoJo banished - Liz Truss down. Is Rishi next for the toaster? threadbans in OP