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Are there any credible conspiracy theories?

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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    The whole point of a conspiracy is that whoever is behind it has some motivation to achieve something, for good or bad, but there has to be some reason for what they are conspiring to do.


    All that you have is "something weird happened that I don't understand". That isn't a conspiracy, and it is definitely not a credible conspiracy theory because you don't have even a shred of conspiracy happening.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,501 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    You've posted this maybe 50 times now.

    How did they rig the buildings with explosives undetected?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,227 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Bizarre thing to claim "has some truth to it".

    The chemtrial conspiracy was the notion that thousands of planes were secretly send up every single day over every country spraying stuff that was directly effecting people or spraying mind control drugs or something to do with keeping people from developing super powers.

    Why wouldn't have people branded this idea crazy?



  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not saying ivermectin works or doesn't but ...

    How would it grant them exclusivity? It's off patent. Trials are expensive, and with no payoff no private company is going to waste money on a trial. This would have to be done by public sector, of which lots in South America did, with some promising results. Ignored in the west, yet they all jumped on a Bangladeshi mask study.

    Did someone get exclusivity for dexamethasone? Don't think so.

    The main point is that the vaccines would have lost emergency use authorisation in the US had it turned out there was an effective treatment. This was a massive incentive NOT to find an effective treatment. Nothing conspirational about any of this.

    Does ivermectin work? We don't know because proper trials were never done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,791 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    There was a study done in March among 3,500 patients which showed it didn't really have any effect.

    That aside, the notion that there was a worldwide conspiracy against Ivermectin is classic appeal to motive, aka the conspiracy has been concocted almost entirely out of finding a motive.

    Now maybe there is some global Ivermectin conspiracy, but you'd need to have direct evidence for it

    Post edited by Dohnjoe on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Those who initiated this act knew only what they were doing. Their reasons for bringing towers and building seven down are unique to them.

    The investigators analyzed these weird events separately in separate mainstream reports. If they are combined, the case for nanothermite is strong.

    For weeks, temperatures reached a high level at ground zero. Thousands of gallons of water did not help put out the fires. People on the site reported that work shoes melted in certain areas because it stayed too hot;

    There is an unexplained red liquid that was pouring out of the second WTC tower moments before it collapsed. Debunkers claim it is aluminum, which would be silver or whitish and not a red liquid. As we can see, there was an obvious melt in the area where the second tower collapsed and broke apart.

    In fact, the video supports the claims made by workers, fire crews, and witnesses on the scene that a lot of steel was in the rubble and was melted. It is claimed by NIST that no one has ever seen molten steel. This is an absolutely false claim, and there are plenty of videos online where they make it.

    RJ study was a mainstream study of WTC dust where they discussed the fact that millions of Iron Microspheres were produced by high-temperature effects. The RJ study does not discuss how this happened, but they assume it occurred because of fires in the buildings. It is clear in the report that these iron spheres were produced during and not after the event. As steel is an alloy, where is elemental pure iron produced? The study did not explain how it occurred inside the twin towers. Elemental Iron only forms at temperatures over 1400c.

    A FEMA report from 2002 indicated that some of WTC7's steel had been chemically damaged. The rare event has never been fully explained. In an office building, we would not normally find this high amount of elemental sulfur in this way. FEMA had no explanation for where the free sulfur was. Future investigations were asked to investigate, but that never happened.

    In addition, the government lied about the air quality and said it was fine, which led to a major scandal when people at ground zero developed cancers and heart issues. Some of these people were also found to have carbon nanotubes inside them. If carbon nanotubes were found in dust, they would demonstrate that nanothermite had been used here and contaminated the air and dust. 



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,501 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    You've got the cart before the horse. As usual.

    There can be no conspiracy theory if you cant explain how they rigged the buildings. And you can't. Case closed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    You have a theory that people could not enter a building when we know that some art students in Israel had put stacks and stacks full of boxes and filled entire rooms in the Twin Towers with them before 9/11. Did anyone report that before pictures appeared on the internet years later? Strange to me is that these art students were near the North Tower when the first plane hit. After 9/11, it was found that Mossad agents were posing as art students and college students to infiltrate US government buildings. 

    Israel may have had motives aligned with their neocon friends for demolishing the buildings. I keep an open mind concerning their involvement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,791 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Who's "they"?

    All you do is keep trying to pour doubt on the facts in order to hint there's some "mystery" so you can wedge in your conspiracy theories that change every other week.

    Now you're implicating the "Jews" again after a long stint blaming literal German "Nazis"

    Do you have any idea how mad this all sounds to anyone reading this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,791 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The case can't be closed if someone keeps replying and recycling the same argument. Ergo the faithful keep doing it. The only reason 9/11 conspiracy theories still persist is down to one factor, stamina. A true fanatic will never give up.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,501 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Yes 18 months before 9/11, an art prank.

    So anyway talk us through how both buildings and WTC7 would have been rigged with explosives. Otherwise you have no theory.

    For example, I think Mohamed Atta flew the plane into the north tower. Its possible because he knew how to fly a plane. Cause and effect. If it was proven that he didnt know how to fly a plane, then it couldnt have happened.

    You cant even begin to explain how they could have rigged all the buildings. Because its impossible.

    You've been asked about this dozens of times now and pathetically dodge it every time. You cant even find a snappy youtube clip on how it could be done. Because it cant be done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    As we know from arrests on day of 9/11, Israel had foreknowledge of the attacks. Mossad agents were outside watching over the scene when the attacks took place. Dancing Isreali fame watched the first plane hit the North Tower.

    .They worked for Mossad front companies in Jersey New York. Then mysteriously everyone in the location disappeared days after 9/11. As a result of the FBI raid.

    The Dancing Israelis were pulled from the van and held for weeks before being deported (two of the four occupants of the van were identified as Israeli intelligence agents). As in a movie, the men were caught, then everyone in this company just got out and left the business.,

    It is very strange here months after 9/11, US authorities arrested 100 Israeli art students, a very high number, and deported them on the grounds they were infringing on US military installations and US government businesses. .

    In light of 9/11 and what happened with the buildings here, some of them had explosive ordnance backgrounds, i find that interesting.

    Israel had agents posing as fake art students, and there was an art project in the Twin Towers that allowed Israel to enter the building and transport nano-thermite materials. There are a lot of brown boxes stacked from ground floor to roof in one of these art group pictures from the 91st floor of the Twin Towers. I find it odd the whole room is so full of brown boxes. In an odd coincidence, the plane hit exactly where they are working on this project. There is something very odd about the room roof, which is exposed, and was not part of the project. There is supposedly a balcony being constructed out the window or something like that for a project stunt. What is the purpose of removing the room panels so that the fireproofing and steel can be seen?

    There are only a few groups that could have done this. Mossad and Neo-Con would be one. I keep an open mind that other international bankers/fascists might have done it as well. Had to go with the best theory, Mossad did it with some Neocon assistance ..

    This room has been stripped of its panels for some unknown reason? Can you see the steel pipes and fireproofing? What purpose behind that?

     



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    People would have noticed stuff being brought in, but nobody reported ever seeing boxes and boxes being unloaded and placed on the 91st floor. It makes no sense to fill the room with boxes from ground to ceiling, then remove the roof panels to reveal the building if you are building a wood balcony. In my opinion, the art project was a front for Israeli intelligence to get inside the building and prepare it ahead of time. 



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Those who initiated this act knew only what they were doing. Their reasons for bringing towers and building seven down are unique to them.

    So as stated then, you don't have a conspiracy theory, much less a credible one.


    All you have is "I don't understand" of something. This thread being for credible theories to be presented then you continuing to post non-conspiracies about 9/11 just doesn't fit the thread.


    Come up with a conspiracy, and make it credible, and there may then be something to discuss.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,501 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    OK, so how did they do it? Specifically.

    Which floors were rigged, and whch parts of those floors?

    How did they access all the other floors they would have needed to?

    Is there any evidence these artists were explosives experts?

    Did anyone else see them on any other floors?

    Can nano thermite be placed 18 months in advance?

    Can it be transported it cardboard boxes?

    How much of it would've been needed to bring down 3 buildings?

    We these guys seen in the other buildings?

    Where are these guys now?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,791 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    You watched a TV show about Nazi's who went to the US and suddenly you changed all the perpetrators of your conspiracies to German "Nazis"

    Now you've just changed it all again..



  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hadn't seen that study. Looks like a large well run and credible study, and indeed it shows no effect. Ofc a conspiracy theorist would say the study was set up for that purpose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,463 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    If a company pays for a trial and gets approval for the medicine for a new treatment then that company can claim exclusive use for that medicine for that treatment, so if merck (who produce Ivermectin) ran a trial they could have exclusivity on it for a period of time and no one else could market or prescribe Ivermectin for whatever that treatment was.

    This was also possible with Dexamethasone, but I believe the trial was ran by the NHS in the UK (though they undoubtedly had sponsors) and much like the vaccines, were happy to supply it at cost during the pandemic (a lot of companies became altruistic during the pandemic supplying medicines, ventilators etc, a bunch of British politicians took advantage of PPE contracts to make a mint, now there's an actual conspiracy).

    The Ivermectin grifters took in multiple of what it would have cost to run a trial during the pandemic, it was a money-making scam for some and a big pharma conspiracy for others (even though big pharma didn't even need to be part of it). It also helped to de-worm a lot of people where worms were prevalent (which would have improved their health). Unfortunately, unless their drinking water became sanitary, there would be little long-term benefit from it.



  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wasn't aware of the repurposing exclusivity.

    I wonder about the likes of Dr Pierre Kory ruining his reputation on this one. He was one of the first promoters of dexamethasone for COVID patients before alighting on ivermectin.

    Also stumbled across this article: https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/95726

    the headline is a bit ironic considering the vaccine miracle drug doesn't stop you getting COVID either. And yes Pfizer did claim it prevented infection.

    Again, it seems clear now ivermectin is useless against COVID - but the reaction to it in the media and the attached certainty of it's ineffectiveness when there was inconclusive evidence both ways gave it far more publicity than it deserved.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    The HPRA purpose is to prevent Joe Soap getting a lower cost and identical medication rather than going via the rip off merchants of pharmacists and HSE (I suppose taxis to work for managers isn't for free). Because the completely identical medication is approved under a different name here, HPRA will get Customs to grab it. I suppose that doesn't count as a conspiracy theory, but how things work here generally. Nominally it is possible, but's made nearly impossible. Anyhow the HPRA are there to protect prosperous local golden circle types, as with other quangos and the State.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,463 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Pfizer produced mountains of data for the trials showing exactly what the vaccines were capable of based on trial data and the likely real-world impact of that given the known impact of reducing and eliminating symptoms on infectivity (and this proved true, but, scientifically, they didn't test for it in the trials because that wasn't one of the trial endpoints, scientific trials and how they run and endpoints is something that confuses a lot of theorists as has been seen in the vaccines thread), in addition, real world data was already flowing in from Israel by the time we started vaccinating, showing the impact on infectiousness. At that period of time, with the original variant, herd immunity was expected to be achieved with about ~60% of the population vaccinated, Delta changed that to ~80+ % due to its higher infectivity (R) and our immune system shedding coronavirus antibodies led to the waning efficacy against infectiousness, hence the need for boosters to keep it under control (especially for the elderly and vulnerable), boosters were being talked about as needed during the trials but frequency was unknown (~6-9 months for vulnerable, 1 year for others seems about right, though others are getting infected anyway, so it'll become like flu vaccine drives instead, targeting others to reduce the numbers rather than eliminate, I'll be interested in the real world data from the bivalent vaccines, expect trivalent+ vaccines in the future for COVID, or a "universal" vaccine).

    Memory cell immunity remains strong (B and T-Cell) so most people can fight it off fairly easily but only really post infection by the time the antibodies have been produced by the immune system again. (and remembering that nothing prevents infection, the virus will still transfer latch on somewhere, "infect" someone and then be killed, sterilising immunity. like some vaccines provide, do this faster and before the virus has a chance to multiply, hence why a nose or respiratory vaccine may be better for infectiousness with SARS-COV2, albeit without as great an effect on severe disease when it gets deeper into the body/respiratory system).



  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    One thing I would say about Israeli or any other data was that none of it took into account waves of infection - huge spike, then subsiding to low levels = vaccine success, but this was the natural ebb and flow of infection anyway. This is not saying they didn't work or have some effect, but not taking this into account makes a mockery of any attempt to look at transmission or infection efficacy. The only real way to do that is to compare vaccinated vs unvaccinated in the same population.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,463 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    That was taken into account, a lot of people miss that post vaccinations, a lot of lockdowns and restrictions also got removed, unless the country was chasing 0 Covid, also that the peaks didn't lead to anywhere near the same number of hospitalisations, which again, allowed further opening up (which also led to certs as the unvaccinated were multiple times more likely to end up in hospital, even in the lower age groups, so it was either remove restrictions slowly for all or faster for the vaccinated, most governments chose the latter).

    It's why I say to people "come with the data" pointing to one point at a graph doesn't really mean anything unless all the conditions are taken into account, lots of revisionism is occurring this way (and memes created).



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,501 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Certainly credibility for a conspiracy around the death of Rudolph Hess. Been on a Nazi buzz at the mo. Not secret ones either.

    A frail 93 year old commits suicide in 1987 and leaves a suicide note that was apparently written in 1969 when he was sick and thought he was going to die.

    Theory is that he was going to reveal British atrocities during WW2. Apparently he had been speaking about it for a few years privately.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,463 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Independent of COVID talk, why isn't there any CT around what trump has done or russia?

    A lot of the theorists on here are falling into the trump supporter/russia sympathiser/COVID denier bucket, it's almost never a surprise to see those active on the COVID forum about restrictions et al and trying to twist data also get banned fairly quickly from the russia thread on CA.

    Post edited by astrofool on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    This has been explained to you on more than one occasion. For the last time:

    A bullet which is 6.5×52mm, tumbling end-over-end, can make a hole anywhere from 6.5mm to 52mm. So, the fact that the hole was 15mm and not 30mm is irrelevant. Please stop dragging this up as if it proves your theory. It doesn't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,175 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    How would he have any evidence of british atrocities considering he was in custody since 1941?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,501 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Actually, it was more than he knew about plans to overthrow Churchill back in the day. Possibly related to this.


    Hess was an arthritic shambles of a human when he died. Suicide is very possible of course but certainly enough in there for a rethink considering he was 93. And apparently couldnt lift his arms over his head.

    Scotland Yard was given the names of British agents who allegedly murdered the Nazi Rudolf Hess in the infamous Spandau Prison but was advised by prosecutors not to pursue its investigations, according to a newly-released police report.




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,501 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Cheerful assumes "tumbling" means an exact 90 degrees. He doesnt do fine points.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    And why would there need to be a conspiracy to kill off a 93 year old because of something they might possibly maybe reveal... But hadn't revealed so far.

    Just wait for them to die, and if they do say anything just say they were old and going a bit daft.



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