Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

Big Bag of Chips · 12-10-2022 09:13PM

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Kumejima · 12-10-2022 09:26PM

https://twitter.com/Rob_Roos/status/1580194898791354371

Wait what's this? Pfizer admit in the European parliament that they never even tested if their "vaccine" would stop the spread of the disease before releasing it? But I thought I was going to save Granny? Surely they didn't lie to us? But but...if they never even tested for its efficacy in stopping transmission how could they claim it was effective? And ...gulp... does that mean they were lying too about its safety? Oh noes....who could have thought they'd be so deceptive? These were the world'd best scientists! I trusted The Science! I don't feel too good Mr Stark...

hometruths · 12-10-2022 09:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119736639#Comment_119736639

In fairness it was no great secret at the time that the trials were not designed to test transmission. All the experts and the scientists knew this, and it wasn't regarded to be a big issue if the vaccine proved to be 95% effective.

The whole protect your granny thing was political propaganda, and the experts and scientists we were were asked to trust just let it go unchecked.

12-10-2022 11:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119736639#Comment_119736639

I personally wouldn't put too much stock in this narrative seeing that it's coming from Tucker Carlson. His show is constantly deceptive.

Seems to be that it's using the same word games that have been played throughout this thread where if the vaccine isn't 100% effective then it's useless.

The vaccines have been effective in reducing infection, transmission and especially severe disease. All studies posted in this thread have confirmed this. Likewise we've yet to see any evidence of secret safety issues. Just vague insinuations and claims that have been shown to be false.

Hoop66 · 13-10-2022 08:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119736639#Comment_119736639

Yeah, wondered when someone would post this. It is, as is explained in this twitter thread (with sources, not just a headline that says what I want to believe), "wrong on basically every count".

Rachel Schraer on Twitter: "A viral tweet is claiming to give bombshell news (🚨) that Pfizer is "admitting" they never tested whether the vaccine prevented transmission and therefore the concept of "get vaccinated for others" was a lie - this is wrong on basically every count. So, some facts." / Twitter

Kumejima · 13-10-2022 10:25AM

"Its a nothingburger, it was known at the time, to anyone who looked at the data". Riiiiiigghhhtttt. I'm sure there were people who pointed that out at the time but weirdly enough, I don't remember them being invited on Primetime? Or CNN?

Shame how so many people got the wrong end of the stick because I don't remember "we didn't test for transmission" being a message that was plastered all over the media for 2 years?

I do remember "Stop the spread, get the jab", "Protect you and your vulnerable loved ones by getting your Covid 19 vaccine" or my favourite "No jab, no job".

Strange how Pfizer didn't correct every single media outlet in the Western World when they were spreading these messages. Or every government when they were needlessly shutting the unjabbed out of society, given that as you say this was known at the time? Or every major celebrity, or authority figures like Joe Biden, Rachel Wallensky, et al when they claimed that you wouldn't get covid if you got these jabs.

But they really should have said it to their CEO Albert Bourla who claimed it was variously 100%, 95% and 80% effective. Bad day at the office there

Pfizers communication department really dropped the ball on that one. But, hey, things were crazy, you can't get every minor detail out I guess.

If billions of people somehow got needlessly jabbed under false pretences creating billions for Pfizer and thousands of vaccine injured or killed, well...what do you expect? It was a pandemic, the situation was fluid. These misunderstandings happen

snowcat · 13-10-2022 10:39AM

https://etana.substack.com/p/reproduction-disrupted

Interesting article on mRNA and its effect on different aspects of the reproductive system as it stands today, according to the linked doctors.

Dohnjoe · 13-10-2022 10:49AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738175#Comment_119738175

it's a blog piece

Steve Kirsch is an anti-vax campaigner

https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/10/05/1036408/silicon-valley-millionaire-steve-kirsch-covid-vaccine-misinformation/

Naomi Wolf is suspended from Twitter for her anti-scientific nonsense

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57374241

James Thorpe is a gynocologist who calls vaccines "poison" and is quite possibly mad

https://odysee.com/%40TimTruth%3Ab/dr-thorp-to-physicians%3Ab?src=embed

Dohnjoe · 13-10-2022 11:18AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738126#Comment_119738126

If billions of people somehow got needlessly jabbed under false pretences creating billions for Pfizer and thousands of vaccine injured or killed, well...what do you expect? It was a pandemic, the situation was fluid. These misunderstandings happen

The virus killed 6 million people in just over 2 years and put national health systems under critical strain. The vaccines significantly reduced death from the virus and continues to save many lives. It's a no-brainer.

Conversely the virus killed people who were unvaccinated at a higher proportion, therefore these people put an unnecessary strain on the health system during a pandemic. It's no wonder there was public anger at their ignorance and selfishness under such conditions.

If you misunderstood early speculation about vaccines, that's on you. I got the same information and it became evident what the vaccines could and couldn't do against a mutating virus.

The world was reacting to a pandemic. Keyword: reacting. If people want to gaslight and convince themselves that the authorities and professionals know everything about everything and are in control at all times, they are going to end up very paranoid bitter people.

sydthebeat · 13-10-2022 11:19AM

snowcat completely owned once again..... does he not get tired of being duped by the grifters?

Kumejima · 13-10-2022 11:49AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738367#Comment_119738367

Oh wait, so now the authorities don't know everything about everything? They aren't necessarily in control or have all the facts? Weren't you guys telling us to trust the experts? To trust The Science? Now you're saying that a healthy scepticism is the smart move? When did you join our side? And why did you and your ilk castigate us for that very position and continue to do so even to this day?

This is all most confusing 🤨

13-10-2022 11:51AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738231#Comment_119738231

Very strange for him to post this from those people while still trying to assert he isn't an anti-vaxxer.

Is it because he isn't being forthright about his beliefs, or is it that he didn't look into the claims or the people behind them again?

Dohnjoe · 13-10-2022 12:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738512#Comment_119738512

It's not confusing at all

When you are sick, do you go to your GP or do you go to a conspiracy forum on the internet? Exactly you go to a GP. Does that mean your GP is infallible? No it doesn't. You may need a second opinion. For that second opinion you go to another GP.

You trust the experts, but you know that aren't always infallible. This is something you already know.

Attacking medical treatment on a conspiracy theory forum using pseudo-science and faulty arguments is not healthy skepticism anymore than Alex Jones "questioning" the Sandy Hook shooting is healthy skepticism

There is constant debate and evolution among scientists, experts, regulators about the effectiveness, safety, impact, reach, etc of vaccines. Constant. That is completely different from people who have irrational silly beliefs about them.

flexcon · 13-10-2022 01:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119738367#Comment_119738367

Nah this is bull. I just asked my entire workforce what they remember back then about what was said.

After answering I told them that the trials didn't test for stopping the spread. Angry the lot of them. 9 of them if you want specifics.

So no, this is wilfully changing the actual reality of why people got jabbed. you greatly misunderstand the persuasion of "Protect those around you" that got those over the line to get vaccinated.

I expect there to be genuine fury of this, and rightly so. No point ironically in trying to gaslight those that feel aggrieved at this. It is their reality and it is their reason they got the vaccine (not everyone but a massive shade)

Remember those 21 year olds who got jabbed just to get the passport to get into a club? Mental. Madness. I would honestly go on a whim and suggest the majority of those people got it to get the cert - not to protect themselves.

odyssey06 · 13-10-2022 01:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739041#Comment_119739041

What 'trials' exactly? The decision on vaccination was not based just on that trial data. There were other trials and studies.

The only people trying to change the reality are the people touting this as some sort of gotcha, without engaging with the real evidence of the vaccines in preventing infection and transmission.

flexcon · 13-10-2022 01:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739072#Comment_119739072

Before we continue discourse, I am being genuine and legit. Just a person who is angry at this.

I don't want to get caught up in the exact wording I need to use but hear me when I say this:

MANY of us got vaccinated who were on the fence because we were told it would "protect others around us". This was patently misleading considering there was no actual evidence it would from Pfizer.

odyssey06 · 13-10-2022 01:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739108#Comment_119739108

It was not misleading. It did protect others around you. You haven't shown how that statement was false in reality, at the time it was given.

You have made the presumption that the only data used to make the decision on vaccine mandates and advise "protect others" was the Pfizer trial data. This is a false assumption.

The false spin being put on this claim is thoroughly debunked here, as linked above:

https://twitter.com/rachelschraer/status/1580226291214667776

flexcon · 13-10-2022 02:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739135#Comment_119739135

I've actually read this and sat on it a few hours.

What sticks out for me is this "...When the vaccines first became available, public health messaging was clear - we don't know whether they stop transmission, & people should continue keeping preventative measures"

That's not the reality I remember and what many of us remember. Genuinely here, we didn't all share some made up dream.

Perhaps it is some weird shared memory distortion but I whole heartedly remember being told endlessly "Get the vaccine - Protect others around you"

My younger 21 year old brother literally took it to go to the pub legally for the first time. Did not want the jab, and at that stage it was already becoming clearer that the vaccine on the Delta variant was not exactly doing a great job of stopping the spread.

Yes the vaccine may very well protect him etc etc - but his decision to get him over the line was based on a false assumption.

anyway, I'm annoyed and don't know what to think probably, who knows. Draining

Dohnjoe · 13-10-2022 02:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739041#Comment_119739041

The vaccines did reduce transmission (depending on variant). People who were vaccinated incubated the virus for less time and were less likely to pass it on (depending on variant). You were protecting others around you. The general advice was correct. At the time.

The problem is that the virus mutated.

A new variant could come out tomorrow whereby the vaccine would render no protection. That happening wouldn't invalidate previous advice. It's a dynamic situation and advice/guidelines do evolve and have to be updated.

All of this is in context of some individuals here pretending there is some conspiracy or something nefarious behind this.

odyssey06 · 13-10-2022 02:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739287#Comment_119739287

Based on known immunology principles, if the vaccine was protecting in the studies against infection, that was a clear sign it triggered an immune response, which should mean neutralizing antibodies generated.

They didn't know for sure - when they first became available. But it was a reasonable assumption.

By the time the vaccine were being rolled out beyond the most vulnerable groups, they had real world data to go on showing how the vaccine prevented infection and transmission. The evidence is cited on the twitter BBC link.

By getting the vaccine, even against delta variant, your brother did the #1 thing he could do to reduce his chances of getting infected and transmitting the virus onto someone else. There is nothing to be annoyed about except the people peddling this revisionist twitter gotcha and falsely making people second guess their decisions.

flexcon · 13-10-2022 02:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739296#Comment_119739296

Ok, will take a step back.

I don't know enough to properly debate anything here, I have enjoyed this thread for many months

I guess I am just annoyed at the certainty that was given with this

Thanks for the response, every response helps.

flexcon · 13-10-2022 02:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739362#Comment_119739362

Thanks for the response. Will take it on board and get some sleep I think. Apologies to those if I came across as barking.

odyssey06 · 13-10-2022 02:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739385#Comment_119739385

I prefer it when people bark, if that's what they are feeling, and express genuine questions. It can lead to an understanding.

hometruths · 13-10-2022 03:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739072#Comment_119739072

What 'trials' exactly? The decision on vaccination was not based just on that trial data. There were other trials and studies.

Can you link to these other trials and studies that the decision on vaccination was based on.

Certainly as far as we're concerned in Ireland, once the EU approved the vaccines for use, that was the decision to vaccinate taken. And that stage the only trials available were from the manufacturers.

hometruths · 13-10-2022 03:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739287#Comment_119739287

What sticks out for me is this "...When the vaccines first became available, public health messaging was clear - we don't know whether they stop transmission, & people should continue keeping preventative measures"

That's not the reality I remember and what many of us remember. Genuinely here, we didn't all share some made up dream.

Perhaps it is some weird shared memory distortion but I whole heartedly remember being told endlessly "Get the vaccine - Protect others around you"

You're 100% right as far as I recall and many others. No need to apologise because some are intent on revisionism.

The pressure to vaccinate was based on everybody doing their bit to protect each other.

Kumejima · 13-10-2022 03:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739370#Comment_119739370

No my dude, whats happening here is that you are having the perfectly normal and rational response to having been duped and deceived into taking this vaccine, like millions of others on this island. Now these guys are trying to gaslight you with their "No thats not what happened at all, it was all right there on page 347 of the trial data, didn't you read the fine print? It was right there? Don't you understand complex immunological data like me? Weird. Guess not everyone can be smart"

odyssey06 · 13-10-2022 03:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739659#Comment_119739659

I was referring to the advice re: protecting others and the scientific rationale underlying vaccine mandates.

The health authorities would have been following e.g. the studies and trials linked in the twitter thread posted here.

And for example...

A new CDC study provides strong evidence that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective in preventing SARS-CoV-2 infections in real-world conditions among health care personnel, first responders, and other essential workers. These groups are more likely than the general population to be exposed to the virus because of their occupations... Results showed that following the second dose of vaccine (the recommended number of doses), risk of infection was reduced by 90 percent two or more weeks after vaccination... One of this study’s strengths is its design: participants self-collected nasal swabs each week for RT-PCR laboratory testing, regardless of whether they had developed symptoms of illness.

If you aren't testing positive on a PCR swab, you are not going to transmit virus to anyone else.

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0329-COVID-19-Vaccines.html

Kumejima · 13-10-2022 03:59PM

See? It was right there, page 234, paragraph 2, clause b - "the 3% interest rate on your loan will be compounded every seven days". Oh wait when you were told in the ads and read in the posters about the 3% loan rate you thought it was an annual rate? How ever did you get that idea? Hahaha, its hilarious how you now blame your financial worries on the loan companies when it was right there in black and white for anyone to find? Now its somehow their fault that you're losing your house? Wow, and you have a college degree? Hilarious

Dohnjoe · 13-10-2022 04:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739745#Comment_119739745

There's no "duping" going on.

When advice was given in the beginning of the pandemic not to wear masks it was because some quarters thought that masks were not be sufficient to stop the pathogens, and would give people a false sense of security against the virus. When it was later discovered that the virus primarily transmitted on aerosols and droplets from our noses/mouth, then that info was updated. It wasn't like some experts were in some conspiracy against masks, or that they were deliberately "duping" the public, it's that the virus was new and we didn't know everything about it.

Likewise when the vaccines were under development, many people believed that they would "stop" transmission of the virus, some experts and politicians even believed that they would. When the vaccines came out, they already showed relatively good performance against the early variants they developed for, but less so for the current (at the time) variations and mutations that later emerged. That's the limitations of medical science. This is why the advice has been updated and is constantly updated.

As mentioned, a new strain could evolve tomorrow for which the vaccines have no effect. That doesn't mean we've all been "duped", or that there was some vast conspiracy.

Again, none of these posts are for your personal benefit, you've already made up your mind. They are for other posters who may be reading this and to demonstrate the flaws in the kind of irrational and paranoid thinking on display in this thread.

13-10-2022 04:55PM

Is this not pretty much all irrelevant now that Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla has admitted the company didn’t have time to see if its vaccine would stop the spread of COVID.

"do it for others / Take the jab to save granny" has this week been shown to be an outright lie, as Janine Small (Pfizers President of International Developed Markets at Pfizer) confirmed to Rob Roos MEP, no, they did not test to see it their product stopped transmission of the virus before it entered the market. "we had to really move at the speed of science"

Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

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