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Game News 2.0

18687899192174

Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,829 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    And their quite frankly dangerous handling of mental health issues. Basically story boils down to if you have mental health issues you are broken and can't be helped so go kill yourself or something.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,829 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    But anyway **** Silent Hill 2 remake. Silent Hill f is looking like it's going to be incredible considering who is behind it. Higurashi is an incredible piece of horror that brilliantly subverts visual novel tropes and the writer is now working on a Silent Hill game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭recyclops


    This silent hill stream is odd. It's like ko ami are throwing as much mud as possible and hoping something sticks.

    Silent hill isn't the MCU you can't just stick the name on it and expect it to be good as they are learning more and more with each release.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,829 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Seems the team behind Silent Hill f worked on the Resi 2, 3 remakes and resi 7 as well as RE;verse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,901 ✭✭✭✭Zero-Cool


    Silent Hill 2 Remake could be great as long as they leave the story alone. Jesus that ending was depressing, still think about it now and then.

    Return to Silent Hill, i don't think they have the balls to stick to the story of 2 as they claim it will be loosely based on it. Would love to see them go to some dark places but i think they'll try to reach a wider audience.

    Silent Hill Ascension, i still don't know what that will be.

    Silent Hill Townfall, Annapurna are involved, say no more fam.

    Student Hill f, got instant Siren vibes off it, could be a proper little next gen horror.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭recyclops


    Silent hill 2 story just grabbed a late teens me and then the ending was something I'd never really experienced before.

    Worst part was at the time nobody honestly appreciated video games as a ligitimate art form back then so when I was trying to explain it all people could think of was Mario.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,829 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    It's a beautiful piece of writing. Loved its exploration of guilt and and the ambiguity of James' actions.

    Every time I see generic fantasy/sci-fi opera stuff like Horizon or Mass Effect get praised for amazing writing it makes me sad that back in 2001 we had Silent Hill 2 and only a handful of the very best indie games have gotten close.

    Love the story Jeremy Blaustein tells of how everyone in the recording booth was in tears recording the reading of the letter in the ending.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Not a bad stream. Gave us a taste for various silent hill projects.

    You would have to figure Konami is giving mgs the same treatment. A movie is in the works and two developers are rumoured to be making projects. Guess that's the business plan now. Multiple games.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This is one thing I really hate about gaming. The mass social media outrage. I see a Schreier tweet and I think oh no here we go again. I actually don't even read them anymore, but just hearing that he has tweeted another outrage is enough.

    If they have done anything illegal she should talk to a solicitor, take them to court and then we can debate the verdict.

    I get that the industry can be abusive to staff at times. Crunch, I hate it. Guess what, I do crunch too as to most people who work for a corporation. It's not right, I just don't need to hear the mass social media outrage.

    Another point, it's not like gamers all smell like roses. As fans and consumers in the industry it is full of toxic hate, trolling and abuse. Both in the games and outside on social media and forums. The mass outrage and false concern is no more than an extension of that. Its another excuse to be toxic and abusive. Most of those outraged couldn't give a single sh!t about this woman being shafted in her contract.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,829 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Videogames is a business and like all big business these days it's run my Ayn Randian sociopathic **** so of course there will be controversy that needs to be reported on otherwise people cant be held to account.

    As for taking the to court, taking on a big corporation is the best way to financially ruin yourself. Anyway, as Taylor said what they did isn't illegal. It's just really **** and really bad form.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Unlike music, film and TV, video-games is a new industry that's arguably barely 40 years old in the form we know it as - and as such remains a total Wild West in terms of legislation, agreed morals, and employees rights. Everyone's still figuring out how it's all supposed to work. That's not to say the other media are any more codified - witness the recent issues of FX Studios getting mistreated by Marvel et al. Unionisation and/or profit sharing remains hot topic as CGI houses drive more movies' success.

    It's only right and proper that as the industry becomes a wealthy mainstay of other Big Media, questions are asked about how that wealth and power is shared or divided. Or when power is abused. Not every scenario is cut & dry, but if it's good enough for Variety and the sundry trades reporting on abuse or bullshit in Hollywood - why does Gaming get a pass?

    It's funny 'cos I never read film enthusiasts crying out "just let me watch the movie! Stop talking about this!" when an actor is discovered to be abusive, or the aforementioned controversy with Marvel cropped up. Gamers get oddly defensive when it's revealed that there's an actual commercial industry behind all the bleeps and bloops. It's not a bunch of nerds working out of their bedrooms anymore.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Bloomberg has an article about the whole Bayonetta situation.

    According to their sources Taylor was offered 3 to 4,000 dollars PER session. She refused and asked for a 6 figure sum (at least 100,000 so) and residuals.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,829 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Just to add to that, Taylor totally refutes the 6 figure sum and residuals and there's absolutely no evidence of the 6 figure sum being proposed. There is evidence of the 3 to 4K per session being offered.

    Honestly the 6 figure sum sounds like a complete fabrication on the part of whoever is dealing with this on Platinum's side and a smear campaign to combat the bad PR they've gotten. It's a completely ridiculous figure that Taylor isn't stupid enough to ask for and if she did her and agent and their team wouldn't have entertained it anyway.

    The most realistic scenario is she asked for residuals and wouldn't budge on it. Games companies will flat out refuse this as it would set a precedent for offering residuals to other VA artists.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,157 ✭✭✭Markitron


    I think I got burned out on gaming controversies by listening to Jim Sterling’s podcast for a few years. The industry is full absolute **** and I’m glad they are being called out for everything these days but I personally don’t have the ability to care about any of it these days.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well it sounds like all she'd get out of a solicitor is a big bill for their time, if nothing illegal has happened. She has opted to take them on via social media. Trial by social media. Not going to end well either.

    I do feel sorry for her, games need talent (we've all played games with awful voice acting) but she's basically got shafted on her contract. That, literally, is life. By the sounds of it she tried to renegotiate, which is the correct course to take. But if she got nowhere it means it is because they do not need to pay her that much. It is not because they are satanic goat worshipers. They simply don't need to meet her demands, evidently as they've found someone with impeccable reputation to replace her.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,829 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Not satanic goat worshippers, theyre just stingey f*cks and she is calling them out on it. Also impeccable reputation? I mean Jennifer Hale is fantastic and has done a lot for the VA industry but don't go fooling yourself. They got some one cheaper.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sure, yes they got someone cheaper. We'd all love a pay rise but unfortunately there is usually always someone just as capable willing to work for less. Or if not just as capable, good enough for the job not to have to pay me more. This does not warrant an outrage. Its not stingey, its simply called the going rate. To me she's made the common fatal mistake of assuming she is irreplaceable. Almost always ends in having to walk out the door. Also dont forget this is a business contract, she is not an employee. She's selling her service, voice acting, for a price they don't want to pay. Its business, they've gone with a cheaper contract.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,829 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Just remember that they initially offered 4k before offering 3-4K per session. They low balled her with an insultingly low offer first. Sure you can trot out the right winger capitalist mantra of there's always someone that will do it for less but it's also up to you to fight for and demand better wages. That's what she did and it's within her power to call out companies that low ball talent as well as just as much as it's within their power to cheap out.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,717 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    I’m all for calling out exploitative practices in the video game industry. Being offered a mere $4,000 for the role would be be pretty disgraceful. But whatever about the residuals and six figure claim, if she was indeed offered circa 15,000-20,000 for the role (apparently a pay increase compared to Bayonetta 2) I do think that’s a significant detail that does complicate the story.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's not an employee rights issue, it's a services contract and in fact (in Ireland anyway) you have to get 3 quotes and are legally obliged to go with the lowest rate.

    I'm pretty sure it's the same elsewhere, recently Amazon went legal with the US military because they picked Microsoft for a contract even though amazon was cheaper.

    She's calling for a boycott and we all know this industry well, she will get it. Don't be surprised if she ends up getting sued.

    They may well decide the outrage and hit to sales is not worth it and backtrack. But I have to ask, in that situation who is being the prick? And no matter what they do she jas already done the damage. Time for her to lawyer up.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,552 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Doubt any boycott will do anything, the Sag union strike a few years ago was their longest in their history and did nothing. They "won" pratically the same thing they were offered at the start.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,829 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I doubt the one off payment was the issue. I imagine residuals were asked for at a lower rate and the industry is dead set against offering any residuals. It's this weird thing where a massive one off payment is fine but offering residuals is the worst thing ever. It's like how companies would rather give a bigger one off bonus than a pay increase.

    Thats the service and construction industry. It's different for actors, you negotiate.

    Not sure what she would have to lawyer up for. Doubt there's any nda broken and I get the feeling someone might be in more trouble for lying about the 6 figure demand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Company budgets are usually annual. Being able to pay a one off big fee/bonus this year out of free cash is much simpler than trying to drip feed loads of small unknown quantities to people for years to come.


    To one person it's not much to ask, but if everyone gets a % of sales that's thousands of people across multiple games getting small amounts for years to come.

    That's a logistical nightmare.

    She is a contract worker. She was offered a contract, it wasn't good enough in her eyes, she said no. She asked for more. it wasn't worth it / within budget for the company so they said no.

    I'm al for people getting paid what their worth. But sometimes what they think they are worth and what they are worth are different.

    No voice actor has ever sold a game. I've never heard anyone say oh the new x voice actor game is out.

    Good voice work adds to a game, in the same way music can. But if one song costs too much you get another within your budget and move on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Good points there grumpy pants.

    To be honest... brutally honest... who gives a ****. Do you think Taylor gives a **** if some guy is getting lowballed with pay for working in the likes of mcdonalds etc. Nope why should she. That's life. So why should we give a **** about her situation. That's also life.

    Being honest further I thought this story was blown out since the start. Who gives a ****. You'd swear that some major injustice in the world had taken place with how some online were reacting lol.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,829 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    ...




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,281 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Humanity in a nutshell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,157 ✭✭✭Markitron


    You just reminded me of something with this. About a year after the Brexit vote I was in a taxi going from Manchester to Chester because of a car rental ****-up. The driver wouldn't shut up, droning on about the country being full up, blaming immigrants for everything, pretty much all of the xenophobic hits.

    Turned out both of his parents were immigrants. Some **** people.....................



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,698 ✭✭✭sniper_samurai


    Pretty much the same story as Patel. Parents fled Idi Amins regime in Uganda to Britain, then turns around and wants to send migrants to Rwanda.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    You don't but many people do care about people been low balled



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    You sure about that? Do yourself a favour and don't check out adverts.ie your head might exlode.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    She has to look out for number one, and go to get as much of the pie as she can, and screw everyone else.


    No problem with that. It's turning around and then playing the victim card when her slice wasn't as big as she felt she deserves that's off putting.


    A game budget is like a cake. If she gets a bigger slice someone else gets a smaller slice.

    Post edited by Grumpypants on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Edit

    Wrong forum



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,213 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Hellena Taylor now muddying the waters again

    Says she was initially offered $10k, not $4k. After writing to Hideki Kamiya she was then offered an extra $5k, bringing it to $15k. She refused and asked for more, and was then offered just $4k but for just "some lines".

    That's a huge misrepresentation of her initial claim that "The final offer to do the whole game as a buyout, flat rate, was $4,000."

    In particular, she originally said that she was initially offered something low, and then after writing to Kamiya, she was then offered $4k.

    Obviously, we haven't seen any proof of claims made by Platinum/Schrier that she asked for residuals and a 6-figure sum (whatever that sum may have been), but Taylor certainly hid the truth and misrepresented things in her initial videos.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,829 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I'll have to look into this again. What she is saying here sounds more believable than the 6 figure sum nonsense from Platinum/Nintendo.

    Also she says that once Jennifer was on board she was offered 4K for some additional lines which was indeed a final offer and probably quite insulting after they just broke off negotiations with her and went with someone else. I'll have to check if she mislead about the 4K offer but I feel people are getting mixed up thinking that it was the initial offer and not the final one after the role of Bayonetta was already gone.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,717 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    The $4k offer tracks with the Bloomberg report, as that said she was offered $4k for a 'cameo' appearance after the initial negotiations broke down and it was clear she wouldn't be returning in a full capacity. It was a final attempt to have her in the game in some form.

    TBH, the fact that she neglected to mention her $10,000 and $15,000 offers definitely muddies the waters here alas. At the very least it has opened up a worthwhile discussion about voice actor pay and why they deserve fair compensation. Just a shame we didn't get the full story in the first place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,213 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    She says in the Part 3 video above that she was given an insulting offer, and then after writing to Kamiya, was offered $4k. She said in the first part of her video that "The final offer to do the whole game as a buyout, flat rate, was $4,000." That would clearly lead people to believe she was offered less than $4k, then after writing to Kamiya was offered $4k as a final offer to do the whole game.

    It's not a lie, but it's also not the truth and I think was worded in such a way to make it seem like $4k was the most she was being offered to do the whole game.

    While I'm also skeptical of her asking for a 6-figure sum and/or residuals until we see proof of it, she also hasn't said how much she was looking for. She talks about asking for how much she felt it was worth, and how much money the franchise has sold for etc, but doesn't say what she was asking for or if it was comparable to other VA roles etc. But I think in her initial videos, she purposefully misrepresented the offers that were made to make it sound like she was only being offered $4k for the game as a whole (rather than $15k for the whole game, and then when that wasn't agreed to and Hale was brought in, Taylor was offered $4k for pretty much one day of lines, or a cameo of some sort).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    She had multiple opportunities to clarify her position and didn't. After bucket loads of articles were written saying "she was offered 4 grand for the role" it is clear that everyone that watched the video took away that she was offered 4 grand for the full game. There was a massive debate about if 4 grand for 16 hours work was "well paid".

    She left that out there, the developers, publishers, and people working on the game got dogs abuse online for the week from the usual blue-haired brigade.

    This new post to "clarify things" wasn't done to come clean and stop the abuse of those people. It was to again play the victim card and claim that $15,000 is not a living wage!! You need two games a year paying 15 grand to far exceed most people's living wage.

    The real issue is. She sees herself as "the talent" and wildly overvalues that talent and what it brings to the game.

    She pitched this as trying to stand up for Voice Actors but this will ultimately hurt them.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,829 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Is it really her fault that people jumped to conclusions over what she said and journalists reported on it without doing any follow up to clarify her statement? Seems to me she told the truth but it was misconstrued so she is coming out to clarify and correct the misconceptions.

    As for the blue haired brigade comment 🙄



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,717 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    There's a reasonable debate to be had whether $10,000-15,000 is a fair payment for voicing a popular character - once you account for agent fees and taxes etc... it's not exactly a fortune (granted, what constitutes a significant amount of money will differ wildly from person to person). But $15,000 is still a very different proposition to the $4,000 that was initially put out in the ether as the only figure.

    I see Taylor's also hitting out at 'powerful' journalists now as well for telling the full story, accusing them of being on the side of 'the industry'. Probably not the right angle to be taking here, given Schreier in particular has been doggedly on the side of workers and pro-labour across his journalism and books.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,187 ✭✭✭McFly85


    She told the truth but was very selective with how she phrased it - and her clarifications tie in with Platinums version of events(offered up to $15k and then $4k for a cameo).

    I do find it odd she doesn’t do other voice work anymore. I thought she was great as Bayonetta, and I would have thought being the voice of a fairly prominent video game character would lead to more VA work. $15k doesn’t sound like a lot but if you get a few gigs per year it’s not too bad - and I kind of assume that’s the nature of the job. Maybe she has no interest in it as a full time gig, which is fine, but it’s not up to Platinum or Nintendo to cater to that.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,829 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I think it wasn't fair going after Schreier. He reported on the information that he was given but also stipulated that he saw evidence of the 10 and 15K contracts but no evidence of the demand for 6 figures and residuals, which were mostly likely damage control lies but he wasn't in a position to call it out but stipulated there was no evidence to back it up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    I'll quote her directly. (video is posted below too).

    "The final offer, to do the whole game, as a buy-out flat rate is $4,000".

    I think it is fair that anyone listening to that would think that she said she was offered 4K to do the game.

    She follows it up in Part three of the video saying she wrote directly to them and after that back and forth she was offered $4,000. Today she clarifies that that 4,000 was actually $5,000. And it was $5,000 on top of the initial $10,000.

    She only mentions the whole game, she only mentions $4,000 and she says it twice. There was zero mention of $10,000 or $5,000 at any point.

    At a stretch, you could say she got muddled up with three separate offers and in part three was talking about a third interaction that happened 11 months later when she was offered $4,000 for a smaller role.



    Post edited by Grumpypants on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,213 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I agree. Unfortunately I don't think it's a case of her words being misconstrued, but rather she lied through omission whether intentionally or not. She made it seem as though $4k was the most she was offered to voice the role at any point in the negotiations, by omitting that the most she was offered was $15k, and when she turned it down she was offered $4k for a cameo or "some lines" (ie. not voicing the role in the full game).

    Regardless of Platinum's claims about a six-figure sum or residuals, the confusion that ensued about her claims are her fault, again whether intentional or not. And she had ample time before now to clarify if news sites took her up wrong.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,717 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    I do think it's pretty indisputable that Taylor made it sound like $4,000 was the highest offer she got for the game, whether intentionally or not. The most generous reading is that it was very careless phrasing, the less generous version would be that she omitted the full details on purpose.

    TBH it suggests Platinum really did want her in the game if they were willing to offer her a paid cameo even after primary negotiations broke down and the role was recast! Kamiya may be a jackass on twitter, but sounds like he also intervened to get Taylor a 50% pay rise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    She got £3,000 for the first game, she says a "little more" for the second. Let's say £4,000.

    So for part 3, they offered her $10,000. That is more than she made for the first two games combined. She said no.

    They offered to pay her $15,000, that's three times what she made for part 2 to come back. She said no.

    They offered to pay her $4,000 for a small cameo, because they still wanted to do right by her, which is what she earned for a full game in the past. She said no.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,829 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I think you are on the money there. These decisions would have been made by a casting department or more likely a company contracted out. I can imagine they wanted her back but the casting company once they got into negotiations. They made the call to just go with Jennifer which probably would have been the cheaper option as she had no pulling power since she isn't associated with the role. The decision seems to have been very mercenary, especially with just cutting off all contact with Helena during negotiations which is why I imagine it was probably a contractor with no connection to the project that was filling their brief of getting the best quality for the cheapest price. Helena's agent probably misjudged who they were dealing with and how much her being associated with the role would benefit them in negotiations.

    I imagine she found out that she was being low balled compared to what others in the industry were being paid so was demanding a fairer wage. I mean they paid her 3-4K for a lead role when the industry going rate is 3-4K per session. All she is looking for was a little bit more than the industry standard.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,157 ✭✭✭Markitron


    I think this particular drama has now run its course. I wonder what the next will be, it has been a suspiciously long while since Randy Pitchford has said or done something ridiculous.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    It's very easy to clear it all up. She just posts

    • What did she ask for?
    • How long she was asked to work for?
    • What they offered.

    Then everyone can see if it is fair or not.

    But suspiciously she won't ever mention what she asked for. Or how much work was actually needed.

    Maybe I'm in a dreamland, but to me, a job that can net you 40k a year by only working 10 days a year is not a profession I feel is underpaid.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,829 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    You need to take into account tax and that you have no benefits being self employed. There can be massive gaps between jobs and you aren't sitting on you ass between projects, you'd be doing maybe 50+ auditions and maybe get one of the roles, all of which take a lot of prep and graft to even get audition offers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,100 ✭✭✭EoinMcLovin




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