General Premier League Thread 2022-23 - mod note in OP 12/03/23

As I said, I give him full credit for Mount… but beyond that, what CL winning players are you giving him all this credit for?! He clearly had fck all to do with the arrivals of lads like Havertz, Werner, Mendy, Ziyich, Silva etc. had them foisted onto him and he hadn’t a notion what to do with them. And other non-English young players too that were already there, like Zouma and Christenson, who suddenly looked twice the players after he left, and of course he’d already fallen out with Rudiger and stopped playing him. The marked improvement of almost everyone in his squad after he left really just can’t be ignored… that’s important, like!

He did alright in that first season in fairness… not brilliant, but par. But everything went pear shaped once the expectations rose.

You’re citing Frank as the architect of the CL winning team when he had next to no say in their transfers, and mismanaged the ones he was given… it seems more like you just want to give him the benefit of the doubt for his prior performances since he’s now managing your team…

What? I didn’t say that about Everton - said he’s got them playing much better now. You’ll know better than me how much input he has on transfers there - I’d guess it’s moreso the remit if the newly hired DoF - but regardless, that soft spine is much tougher now under his management over the past month or so.

For Chelsea, I pointed out all my specific thoughts and opinions for exactly what I think happened there, and what I think his failings were, and invited you to specify what it was that he orchestrated to make them a CL winning team that you think he deserves so much credit for. I give him Mount - I can’t see anything else to give him. We know he didn’t buy the players, he didn’t manage all the new faces well, and to win the next manager had to completely change formation and bring banished faces back in from exile, improving everyone else (except Mount) in the process. Maybe there’s one or two things we could dig into to find credit from but trying to claim that he built/orchestrated that CL win is just not at all true.

He was ok at Derby, like he was ok in his first Chelsea season - no more than that. These were my thoughts from watching his games when they were happening back then and I don’t see why they need revising because he’s having a good run now. Maybe he’s just improving now, and finally learned how to fix the weak belly both of his previous teams were notorious for, and if so good on him.

Were the Rafa and post-Rafa periods not basically exactly the same?

He left Everton after 22 games in 15th with 23 points - and 6 points above the relegation zone. The season finished with Everton in 16th after 38 games with 39 points and 4 above the relegation zone.

Was the great escape not cause things got worse before they got better again?

(Not excusing Rafa here, he did rubbish, but his replacement didn’t exactly pull off a miracle either, or at least not till he put himself in need of one first).