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Sophie: A Murder in West Cork - Netflix.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    No,

    Its nonsense.

    Of course its improbable that an inebriated man got up from his bed in the middle of a Winter's night and made his way to a remote farmhouse and killed a woman he didn't know for no reason. Highly improbable. So improbable that I cannot recall ever hearing of such an occurrence.

    It is extremely unlikely that, had Bailey killed Sophie Jules would not have known, sensed or eventually found out. Women are super intuitive when it comes to noticing changes, and reading their menfolk. She would have sussed it out, if not immediately, then certainly by now. What is unlikely is that she would have covered for him and allowed a sexually motivated murderer to stay with her and her daughters.

    There are numerous, solid reasons to suspect Garda corruption in this case. I am supportive of the Gardai, who do a difficult job, but to suggest that anyone who sees possible malpractice is a conspiracy theorist, is wrong. Maybe there weren't deliberate attempts by the Guards to destroy evidence, manipulate witnesses and incriminate an innocent man. But there is plenty of evidence to justify reasonable suspicion that they did.

    And the last paragraph is utter nonsense. Tibruit had stated that no crime profiler would draw a certain conclusion. When asked to qualify such a bold assertion he refused, correctly citing the impossibility of doing so. Thereby rendering his original statement valueless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭tibruit


    "Of course it is improbable that an inebriated man got up from his bed in the middle of a winters night"

    Jules says he did and she didn`t see him for several hours afterwards. Not only did he himself say he did, he says he also left the house. Have you even read the sworn statements?

    "made his way to a remote farmhouse"

    He was clearly pondering going up that laneway on his way home from the pub. When he got home he asked Jules to come with him. Read the sworn statements.

    "and killed a woman he didn`t know"

    Of course he knew her. I can think of six individuals who have indicated they knew each other.

    "for no reason"

    When a violent narcissist knocks on your door in the middle of the night and you end up dead, the reason becomes self explanatory.

    "Women are super intuitive"

    I`m sure some are. Paula Rader must have been hiding under the bed when they were doling out the super intuition. Her husband murdered ten people over 17 years and she never suspected a thing. The psychologist who interviewed Dennis Rader diagnosed him with narcissistic, anti-social and obsessive-compulsive personality disorders. He said Rader had a grandiose sense of self, a belief that he was special and entitled to special treatment and that he had a pathological need for attention and admiration. Does that remind you of anyone? Apparently, Jules liked a drink. It can bring down a bit of a fog. I could say more about Jules but I won`t. I just suspect she is a decent lady who was very naive.

    "but to suggest that anyone who sees possible malpractice is a conspiracy theorist, is wrong."

    I haven`t suggested that. I`m in no doubt that there was Garda malpractice in this investigation and I`m not a conspiracy theorist.

    "Tribuit had stated that no crime profiler would draw a certain conclusion"

    Are you aware of one? I`m not. Nearly 26 years now and still waiting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,102 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    There are numerous, solid reasons to suspect Garda corruption in this case.

    But who are the Gardai covering up for and why ?

    And how has the cover-up lasted 26 years without a single member saying boo ?

    Do people really think that a whole slew of Gardai have managed to keep the truth about a henous murder a secret to protect one of their own for 26 years?.

    Personally I'd be more inclined to believe the drunk, sex crazed, narcissist, with a history of violence towards women, looking for a bit off the hot French woman late at night getting rejected and flying into a rage theory.



  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Of course it is improbable that an inebriated man got up from his bed in the middle of a winters night"

    Jules says he did and she didn`t see him for several hours afterwards. Not only did he himself say he did, he says he also left the house. Have you even read the sworn statements?

    That's not what I said. I said it was improbable that an inebriated man got up from his bed in the middle of a Winter's night and made his way to a remote farmhouse and killed a woman he didn't know for no reason. Highly improbable. So improbable that I cannot recall ever hearing of such an occurrence. Which, as you well know, is a different statement.

    And I stand by it.



    "made his way to a remote farmhouse"

    He was clearly pondering going up that laneway on his way home from the pub. When he got home he asked Jules to come with him. Read the sworn statements.

    "clearly pondering" speculation - you cannot possibly know what he was thinking. And, of course, that laneway led to Alfie Lyons house too.


    "and killed a woman he didn`t know"

    Of course he knew her. I can think of six individuals who have indicated they knew each other.

    There is no evidence that he knew her. No record of them being seen together . No record of them ever communicating. No evidence of association of any kind. He certainly knew of her, as did everybody else in the locality, but that is not knowing her. Alfie thought he may have casually introduced them, but he wasn't sure.


    "for no reason"

    When a violent narcissist knocks on your door in the middle of the night and you end up dead, the reason becomes self explanatory.

    There is no evidence that he ever knocked on her door. You're simply speculating. No motive whatsoever. He had no reason. And by no stretch of the imagination is the motive for this attack "self explanatory"



    "Women are super intuitive"

    I`m sure some are. Paula Rader must have been hiding under the bed when they were doling out the super intuition. Her husband murdered ten people over 17 years and she never suspected a thing. The psychologist who interviewed Dennis Rader diagnosed him with narcissistic, anti-social and obsessive-compulsive personality disorders. He said Rader had a grandiose sense of self, a belief that he was special and entitled to special treatment and that he had a pathological need for attention and admiration. Does that remind you of anyone? Apparently, Jules liked a drink. It can bring down a bit of a fog. I could say more about Jules but I won`t. I just suspect she is a decent lady who was very naive.

    That's your opinion and I respect it. It doesn't, however change mine in the slightest. I cannot accept that Jules would not suss him out. She lived with him for 20 odd years. Its possible he was able to keep it a secret from her, granted. But its not likely. And finding one exception to a general rule is not persuasive.

    Furthermore, women are ferociously protective of their children. Had she the slightest doubt about Bailey's involvement, she would not have allowed him near her daughters.


    "but to suggest that anyone who sees possible malpractice is a conspiracy theorist, is wrong."

    I haven`t suggested that. I`m in no doubt that there was Garda malpractice in this investigation and I`m not a conspiracy theorist.

    You have suggested that. You accused another poster's opinion of being coloured by hatred of the Gardai. It is not necessary to hate the Gardai to suspect corruption in this case. There is ample evidence to make any reasonable person ask the question.


    "Tribuit had stated that no crime profiler would draw a certain conclusion"

    Are you aware of one? I`m not. Nearly 26 years now and still waiting.

    I never said I was. But you cannot possibly know what every profiler would infer. So the statement was a false assertion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,835 ✭✭✭Deeec


    The Gardai may very well be covering up for a member of their own OR they may be covering up for the complete shambles they made of the investigation.

    Notes and evidence missing, alleged altered statements, leads not investigated, bribed witness's, underhand phone conversations etc doesn't paint the gardai involved in a good light you would have to agree. They needed to pin that murder on someone and accused the local english weirdo poet that nobody really liked - although they had no real evidence that he was involved. Most sensible people would agree that the Gardai let themselves down in investigating this crime - the Gardai will never admit they done a bad job though.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    that's a very good question. And, if they were covering for someone, I agree that 26 years is a remarkably long time to keep schtum.

    But there is such a long list of solid evidence that its difficult to dismiss out of hand.

    There's far more evidence of a cover up of some kind than there is of IBs involvement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭tibruit


    "Thats not what I said"

    It`s exactly what you said, deconstructed sentence by sentence. You clearly haven`t read Jules`s and Bailey`s sworn statements given when they were first arrested.

    ""clearly pondering" speculation- you cannot possibly know what he was thinking"

    Jules said what he was thinking. He asked her to go with him. Fosters book has excerpts of the statements. Go read it.

    "There is no evidence he knew her"

    Wtf. It is becoming more apparent that some contributors here have a very limited awareness of the details of this case. Life is too short.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Jules liked a drink. It can bring down a bit of a fog.

    She also said she had painkillers taken that night



  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Of course its not what I said. its an extract of a much longer sentence. You're really struggling here Tibruit.

    I have a reasonably detailed grasp of the facts, though I wouldn't claim to be an expert.

    There is no evidence he knew her in the accepted meaning of "knew"

    No evidence he ever communicated with her, no telephone records, no correspondence, never observed together.

    Most importantly of all, Bailey had no motive...............



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭tibruit


    The only thing I`m struggling with is your lack of knowledge of the detail and I`m not here to educate you on it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    I do admire you're persistence Tibruit.

    But its best to stop digging when you're in a hole.......😉



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Most importantly of all, Bailey had no motive

    how do you know? You do not know what may have been in his mind





  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    just because you do not know of one does not mean he didn't have one. No one here can know his thoughts. It could be he did go to her house and got rejected and lost the head. he was violent when drunk and had been drinking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    True,

    However, its reasonable to assume that whoever killed Sophie did have a motive?

    Daniel had possible motive....financial, affairs, jealousy.

    Bruno had possible motive.... rejection

    Alfie had possible motive....neighbour dispute

    But I can't see a motive for IB.



  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    just because you do not know of one does not mean he didn't have one. No one here can know his thoughts. It could be he did go to her house and got rejected and lost the head. he was violent when drunk and had been drinking.

    It could be yes. But there's no evidence of a sexual motive for the attack.

    Nor is there any evidence of Bailey sexually attacking anyone before or since......



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,835 ✭✭✭Deeec



    Again the notion that a drunk Bailey hiked along dark country roads or fields on a cold dark December night at some ungodly hour to see a french woman he didnt know is far fetched. How desperate would he have been to do that? I dont even think the urge for sex would drive anyone to go to that trouble. If he did want to discuss work - why would he think that sometime after midnight would be the perfect time to do that. The thing about Bailey is that although hes annoying he is actually intelligent. No way would he have gone over there to discuss work at that time of the night/morning.

    How did he know she was alone? - he couldnt have known she was alone for sure.

    If Bailey did go over there that night it had something to do with Alfie.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But I can't see a motive for IB.

    you say he had no motive as though it were fact not your opinion

    he had a posible rejection motive if he went there and was rejected



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If Bailey did go over there that night it had something to do with Alfie.

    i'd agree that is possible and he could have seen her light on and knocked her up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    OK fair point.

    Sex was a possible motive ......actually its the only realistic motive Bailey could have had.

    But again, there was no evidence of a sexual element to the attack and Bailey had no history of sexual violence.

    So, possible? yes. Probable? no.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    it may not have been his plan to attack her sexually. he thought he was so desirable he would not have to. he has a history of non sexual violence when drunk though and at that time of year it's reasonable to assume big drinker bailey would have had plenty to drink. An unexpected rejection could have made him lose it and if he hit her once he would have to finish her. So that would be a motive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,835 ✭✭✭Deeec


    The only issue I have with this is that he wouldnt have known she was alone. At that time of the year a logical thinker would think she was there with family for a Christmas break. You wouldnt think someone from France would visit alone at Christmas. He could have risked knocking of course and realised she was alone. He would have needed a reason to be there in the first place though and a party in Alfies could have been the reason. Thinking there was a party is not enough of a reason to make the journey - he would have had to be certain that there was a party going on.

    So what if there actually was a party in Alfies that night and there were other unnamed people in the vicinity. Alfie may have wanted to keep this quiet. It would tie in with why Shirley wanted to go to the dump the next morning.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,534 ✭✭✭leath_dub


    Ian Bailey: "Let me read you one of my poems"

    <reads poem>

    Ian Bailey: "Well, what do you think?"

    Sophie: "Merde. Bonne-nuit!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    It is possible to construct any number of possible scenarios to fit any particular theory.

    But if you pile improbability on top of improbability, you eventually reach absurdity.

    So, after a nights drinking, Bailey decides to get up and visit a woman he doesn't know (improbable) He is hoping for a sexual encounter.

    He goes to Sophies door and demands sex. Improbable that he would do so, improbable that she would answer the door in the middle of the night.

    He asks to come in and she refuses so he decides to beat her to death with a concrete block. Improbable. For some reason she has her boots on.

    He drags her down to thje gate and finishes her off, inflicting 50 blows. He makes his escape and leaves no trace of his ever being there or even knowing her. Improbable.

    He then proceeds to revert to normal living without his wife ever suspecting him.

    Despite extensive investigations, huge efforts to incriminate him, noo evidence can be found to link him to the crime scene or the victim. Improbable.

    Did he kill her in this way? Possibly but only just...........



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's just your opinion as to how improbable it is or that it becomes absurd at some point you decide



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    She wouldn't hold back her husband said she could be very cutting



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,102 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    But he doesn't need to know if she is alone.

    He's drunk, nothing he is doing is rational.

    He gets this notion to call on the hot French woman he has been introduced to a few times and who he saw around town and try his luck.

    He probably hasn't even given a second though to whether she is alone or not.

    He's just drunk and following his dick.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,835 ✭✭✭Deeec


    The same could be said about alot of men in the area at that time not just Bailey.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,102 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    But none had the amount of circumstancial evidence building up against them that Bailey had.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    I see this pretty much the same way. Bailey had no motive I could ever think of. The Guards were also never able to establish a motive. This is also why their investigation failed totally.

    I'd say, the only motive I could see is that the Guards tried to cover up, collude, and use corruption and coercion. This part would certainly point to a Guard.



This discussion has been closed.
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