The Merits of Slowing down the easy days

I think you are greatly underestimating Renato Canovas practical background as a sports scientist.

"You haven’t responded at all to the article I linked, which argues (backed by research) that lactate is gone after a couple of hours".

Again, nothing in that study suggests lactate is totally cleared a couple of hours after a prolonged period of exertion. Fact-check, anyone following this thread, click the link to the study provided, use ctrl F on your keyboard and type in "two hours" or "2 hours" or "120 minutes", your search will not yield anything and will save you a lot of bother of actually reading the article.

You must not be reading it correctly. The word ‘disappearance’ in that study is used to describe the rate of lactate clearance DURING periods of intense exertion, not AFTER, and is compared to rates to lactate ‘appearance’ or 'build-up' during the same period of exertion. As I've stated there will always be elevated levels of residual lactate the following day after an intense workout.

Yes, your statements were indeed debunked. Reread the earlier posts, anyone with a sound mind will be able to determine this for themselves. For example, you state that it’s not viable to do a V02 max session based on HR(silly statement), I’ve described how it can be used as such.

You thought I was arrogant in my comments and thought you spotted flaws in my logic, which is why you responded. You have 'debated unsuccessfully.

Okay I’m open to learning. Post the peer reviewed studies that support your assertions now please and I will assess same.

Paste links to the entire studies if you can.

Easy running converts lactate back into energy after a hard session and reduces the level of hydrogen concentration in the blood.

So, Easy running does reduce the level of lactate in the blood through this cycle.

Everyone gets ‘things’ wrong but saying Renato Canova gets a lot of things wrong is like me saying Jurgen Klopp got the tactics wrong against Real Madrid in the champions league final last May. My comments don’t have much credibility as I haven’t achieved anything significant in the sport.

Renato isn't a physiologist/scientist (nor am I) and he definitely gets a lot wrong (so do I). He's a great coach and we'll remember him as the greatest groundbreaker. Right now, there are many better coaches, I hasten to add, influenced by Renato's work.

No. Easy running doesn't lower residual lactate levels and hydrogen concentration in the blood after a tough session. That's the old science. If you read Lactate in contemporary biology: a phoenix risen you'll see. Even if you just read the summary, you'll get it. It's very complicated and lots of scientists are now changing their previous beliefs on this subject. Regardless, recovery runs have a big part to play in adaptations.

Very easy runs for recovery and v fast sessions work for some distance runners. I have seen that not everyone responds the same way though to this and you do need to mix it up. Working in Zone 2 and zone 3 as well for some runs below your LT or in and around the LT does produce a great training stimulus (produces more ATP which previous poster mentioned there). It raises your Lactate threshold - and builds you up with out as much fatigue you get from doing hard sessions/,recov runs all the time.

Define an LT run and hard.

Oh, hi Fahim, are you just back from lecturing Renata Canova, correcting him on his errors, and teaching him the latest sports pseudo-science that will enable him to coach the first male athlete to break the magic 2-hour marathon barrier in open competition?

I don’t feel like I need to answer, as it is clear to me that an individual who asks such questions has no practical experience in performing or coaching at a decent level in endurance running.

This will be my last post.

Anyone who would like to shoot me a message, please do so. I love talking training.

Below are the progressions of two runners I’ve coached over the past 9 months. The other is mine.

Athlete 1 - 9 months training, 3 races.

18.47- 17.43- 17.06 5km. Another 12 months training and with some luck with injuries, this athlete will run 15.40 5km.

Athlete 2 - 9 months training, 3 races

17.57, 17.34, 16.54. Another 12 months and with some luck with injuries, this athlete will run a sub 16 minute 5 km

Myself- 10 km, 3 races.

34.34, 33.10 (tough course), 31.56. I didn't run a 5km but based on the athletes that I beat in the 10km races, I was probably in 14.59 5km shape on a fast course with good competition. I did this off zero hard speed workouts and zero specific V02 max workouts. With a little tweaking, I should be able to run sub 31 min 10km and close to 14.30 5km, in time and if family commitments allow it.

Not bad for a man that has an inaccurate understanding of LT and the cori cycle 🤣🤣

Thanks Fahim.

I admire Renato and I have learned a lot from his teachings, as I have other mentors.

I'm not interested in obtaining clients but would gladly point athletes in the right direction, if asked, and for no charge.

Interesting 'discussion', Just wondering Taxes, do you sometimes refer to yourself as 'The Running Master'? there is something familiar about your posting style which reminds me of a running guru who used to post around here.

You seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject,, might I ask you a question.

How long would you normally expect to see lactate levels elevated for before returning to base levels after a hard session ( LT or interval)?

"The purpose of running slow is to reduce the level of blood/lactate in your muscles after quality sessions to less than 1mmol/l."

Why 1 mmol/l?

"This cannot be achieved naturally, for example, through resting as opposed to running easily."

I would also be interested in your views on the study, which seems to contradict your above statements.

Conclusion for anyone who doesn't want to read the whole study.

"Our results demonstrate that active recovery after strenuous aerobic exercise leads to a faster clearance of accumulated blood lactate than passive recovery, and that the rate of blood lactate clearance depends on the exercise intensity of the active recovery, with peak lactate clearance rates occurring at intensities close to lactate threshold. This was observed by measuring blood lactate clearance during active and passive recovery ranging from 0 to 100% of the individual lactate threshold. Active recovery intensities at 80–100% of lactate threshold were more beneficial than exercise intensities at 60% of lactate threshold or below, and this dose–response relationship also existed during active recovery at 60%, 40%, and 0% (passive recovery) of lactate threshold. Thus, after a strenuous high-intensity aerobic exercise bout at an intensity close to [Vdot]O2max, the fastest lactate clearance is achieved by active recovery at an exercise intensity close to or just below the individual lactate threshold."

”80% to 100%” of LT threshold, that’s quite a wide range, I’m sure you’ll agree.

That’s 6-7.30 per mile for an athlete with a 6min/mile LT threshold. Good luck trying to recover from a hard session running at 100% of your LT. You won’t stay healthy for long.

Use your head grasshopper. The study states ‘faster’ lactate threshold clearance running at 80-100% of LT, so more efficient but, not more effective and definitely not as safe as passive recovery.

Maybe very experienced runners could recover at the lower end of that range ie 7.30 per mile at a LT of 6min mile but why risk it?

Take it easier, relax, run at 60-80% of LT on your recovery days, your muscles will thank you for it, you’ll stay healthy. You’ll be mentally fresher for your tougher sessions when they come round, keeping the enjoyment of running. .You’ll improve the quality of your harder sessions, you’ll progress faster, you’ll race harder.

Trust me, Taxes is not the The Running Master. I had dinner tonight with John (The Running Master) and coach John Ewoi. Coach Stazza is over here in my homeland, Kenya. He's running a course for coaches and I'm on the course along with several 'world famous' coaches and new coaches. I told John about the thread and he just laughed. He read it and said, I bet people think I'm Taxes (the stupid people).Tomorrow, he's with us and Coach John Ewoi at the Kipchoge stadium. The mods can check my ip address.

"Grasshopper, seek first to know your own journey’s beginning and end... But in this seeking, know patience."

Showing my age here!

“But how will we find our way in the darkness, Master Po, without your light to guide us?”