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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭ps200306


    This is where the rubber hits the road. Countries around the world are waking up to the fact that security of energy supply is their number one priority, and that renewables aren't currently capable of providing it. Unbelievably, as late as this week Eamon Ryan is still yakking on about hydrogen by 2050.

    Meanwhile, from this week's Sunday Independent:

    image.png

    We already have carnage in the domestic energy supply market:

    And around the world:


    Energy Security Comes First: Achieving other policy goals depends upon securing supply and costs

    It is no surprise that many countries have abandoned appeals to “ideological” (to borrow from [Indian Energy] Minister Puni) energy policies and instead adopted hard-headed pragmatism and realpolitik focused on securing supply and containing prices. Consider:

    - Japan is taking significant steps to restart its nuclear power plants and invest in the development and deployment of advanced nuclear technologies;

    - India is deploying a wide range of energy technologies, including consideration of building 28GW of capacity in new coal plants;

    - Countries in Southeast Asia are looking to increasing their import capacity of liquified natural gas by more than 2.5x;

    - Germany’s decision to stick with some aspects of “ideological” energy policy (against nuclear) has resulted in opposition from other European countries;

    - The United States has focused policy on lower the prices of gasoline, touting the reduction as political success.

    All of these actions related to energy indicate what should be completely uncontroversial — energy security comes first. And by security I mean security of supply and of cost. Externalities such as air pollution (both particulates and greenhouse gases), dodgy regimes as a source of supply and fears over technological risks can only be addressed in the context of security.

    But for many people — including some experts — energy policy is not about the technological, economic and societal challenge of delivering secure, modern energy services to everyone around the world. It is a big political game where technologies take on virtues — such as: nuclear BAD, renewables GOOD, that is, unless you are on the other team where it is — nuclear GOOD, renewables BAD. Inevitably, those who play this game already enjoy secure energy supply and can afford its costs.

    But not everyone has these privileges. Expressing virtue through energy technologies will always be much easier when there are multiple viable options on the shelf (so to speak) and ready to be deployed. In the absence of clear alternatives, or in the presence of promises of new alternatives soon to come, countries will overwhelmingly choose what is familiar or immediately deployable. There won’t be much interest in political games through energy policies.

    The bottom line here is that to achieve outcomes other than reliance on fossil fuels from Russia (or reliance on fossil fuels at all) we need to expand the scope of real-world energy technology options, at scale and ready to implement. As we work to expand that scope we must keep front and center the fact that security comes first, everything else follows.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Ryan still away with the fairies:

    State will build its own gas storage (presumably so Ryan can make sure no fracked molecules are allowed enter) and it "must be compatible with hydrogen". What technology is he even talking about? Compressed gas storage would be a welcome addition, but it will still be 100% reliant on imports via Moffat. An LNG terminal is a whole different beast -- it opens us up to supplies from around the world but can't be "compatible with hydrogen" which has a boiling point nearly 100°C lower than NG and uses four times as much of the embodied energy to liquefy. This has all the hallmarks of another Green Elephant.

    I really want to see that CEPA report and check whether Ryan is actually following expert advice or just making it up himself as he goes along. As far as I'm concerned he's the most dangerous person in Ireland right now.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    As far as I'm concerned he's the most dangerous person in Ireland right now.

    Drama

    As for the storage type, I'll wait to see the report before I cast judgement, though I did like this reasoning for the proposal

    A state-owned LNG or gas storage terminal would require hundreds of millions of euro in capital investment by the state. The decision was arrived at when it was established that a commercial LNG terminal would only be viable if Ireland increased its longer-term need for gas, and that this was incompatible with Ireland’s climate targets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Yet on this thread anyway people seem to thing fracking is a good idea and would be welcomed by locals.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    When CO2 was 7000ppm as you say, what lived on the planet, did humans for instance. 🤔



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,135 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So surely the minister for housing needs to be called out on this or is this not an issue that people know about?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Problem is, it falls to a number of Ministers (Housing, Justice, Environment and so on) so no single one can fix it.

    They also only need to do a little to make it look like something is being done.

    One example is in relation to the courts. The Chief asked for (I think) 15 new justices, got 5, the appointments were delayed for ages (nobody actually knows why) and the only way the Chief Justice actually ended up getting those 5 was by announcing a long list of high profile cases which would no longer have a court date due to the lack of judges. The CJ got the 5 new judges within a few days and the govt sold it as "this is the largest amount of new judges ever appointed in one go, aren't we awesome".

    Now there are plans to set up a planning specific court and staff it as needed, but its also delayed. No doubt when it does happen it will be short staffed also



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,275 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Perhaps, maybe, possibly, the state need to build a gas storage facility, maybe possibly because the private sector had one and closed it down when it was no longer profitable

    Strategic reserves should be state controlled. And Ryan wants to ensure they're suitable for storing hydrogen which is in Ireland's medium term national interest.

    And 'opening us up to LNG from around the world? We'd still be paying the market price for gas.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,275 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Oh and liquidating hydrogen by cooling it is not how it should be stored. It should be turned into ammonia where it is more energy dense than liquid hydrogen, and can be stored at -33c temperature for years until we need it (just slightly cooler than domestic freezers)

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,275 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The strategic reserves would be stored in gaseous form, not liquidified. LNG is not stored in liquid form, it's transported as liquid and then stored as a gas in Massive underground caverns (depleted gas fields)

    Ryan wants Ireland to use Hydrogen for strategic reserves but in the meantime Natural Gas can cover the gap, but to save on costs, the infrastructure we build to store strategic reserves should be compatible with Hydrogen.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,275 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Those same people who want An Bord Planeala disbanded so once off housing can be thrown up and nuclear can be built from scratch in less than 5 years

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,275 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Sure 2c global average temperature increase is nothing. For a few hundred million years the surface of the planet was molten rock

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,096 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    They will not succeed. Condensation, hot vapourised rock, a 20km long thin shaft to get it up. Just nope.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,275 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Maybe. difficult problems to solve but easier to scale than Fusion and on par with deep sea oil drilling

    As I said. It remains to be demonstrated as economically viable compared with competitive technology

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,096 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Here, let me help you with yet another difficulty of comprehension you appear to be suffering from:

    “Ireland's 'morbidly obese cats' and runaway public sector pay

    …Eric Pickles, the local government secretary, insisted that he will no longer tolerate salaries higher than David Cameron's basic pay of £142,500.

    …In fact, so much financial cholesterol is coursing through the veins of the Irish public and semi-state sector, a report earlier this summer found that 66 public servants in Ireland receive more than €500,000 each including 37 judges, the head of the controversial National Asset Management Agency, NAMA, and the head of the National Treasury Management Agency, which looks after the country's public finances. ” https://www.theguardian.com/business/ireland-business-blog-with-lisa-ocarroll/2010/dec/06/ireland-public-sector-fat-cats

    15 new judges at 500,000 a pop - can you do the maths?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,275 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    It's 7 and a half million a year.do I win a prize?

    What's your point?

    Do you seriously think David Cameron's total compensation was anywhere close to 150k per year?

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Something like 180m people fly between Europe & the UK each year.

    You'd better get your shovel: we will need about 8 new channel tunnels.

    Or more realistically, a politburo to decide whether your social credit score means your journeys are worthy of a permit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Of course gas prices are going to eventually fall as supply is rebalanced, as I said before. Will it be OK with you when we then point out that wind power is still not competitive, in line with the opportunistic Green claim that wind was nine times cheaper than gas on one particular day in 2022?

    The Greens need to catch a grip. This is a Greenpeace effort to sue corporations with deep pockets. They can't sue the end users of cars and fuel so they mount these stupid campaigns against companies who are selling the things people need. If they want to rope in a farmer to be their stooge they probably should have caught him in a better pose. What does that tractor run on, unicorn farts?

    image.png




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  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Great idea ... with a round trip efficiency of 11-19%. 😏

    Ok with you if we keep exploring for fossil fuels while we're waiting for the 500% efficiency improvements?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Farmer photographed with his diesel tractor adorning multiple oil powered hydraulic lines hoisting his front loader into the sky is hardly convincing, is it? The "greens" in Germany are an odd bunch altogether. LOLs 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,275 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Who's this 'We' who should keep exploring for fossil fuels?

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Not in the least dramatic. Ryan is quite capable of singlehandedly wrecking the Irish economy. And you're making my point for me:

    A state-owned LNG or gas storage terminal would require hundreds of millions of euro in capital investment by the state. The decision was arrived at when it was established that a commercial LNG terminal would only be viable if Ireland increased its longer-term need for gas, and that this was incompatible with Ireland’s climate targets.

    I doubt there's anything that's compatible with Ireland's climate targets because they are ridiculous. The only question is whether we're going to sink the economy as well as miss the targets. Announcing targets without figuring out how to get there is all part of the Ryan insanity. I'd like to think he could be stopped through the polls before there are riots on the streets, but our PR system has dealt him an improbably strong hand. I've no doubt he'll be out on his ear in 2025 but he can do a lot of damage between now and then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Oh I know - I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of it all. The biggest climate change drum bangers have no issue with flying across Europe multiple times a year...

    I highly recommend you read this comment from a few years back: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/111251620#Comment_111251620




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,135 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Lol! Well finally.

    I’ve only been saying this for the last couple of years - nice to see you eventually get it Akrasia



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,096 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Have you ever managed more than one sentence? What's your personal best; two?

    Would you have some links for that?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭ps200306


    'We' who want to keep the lights on and the house warm.



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  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Are you ok?

    On a side note, how's the development of nuclear power in Ireland coming along? Any day now yeah?

    Untitled Image




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