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Eircom Rep on Newstalk 106

  • 04-11-2003 09:21PM
    #1
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    On the 24th of October 2003, David McRedmond, Commercial Director of Eircom appeared on the David McWilliams show on Newstalk 106.

    I promised to post the MP3 of this interview two weeks ago, but I've only gotten a chance now.

    You can find the MP3 here

    It is a 1.3MB MP3 and lasts 8:49.

    The answers given to this interview are very similiar to the interview David McRedmond gave on the Today FM show on Sunday.


Comments

  • #2
    Eurorunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Eurorunner


    Email address for David McWilliams Newstalk show as follows:

    breakfast@newstalk106.ie

    BK: As per the Today fm interview thread, i will hold off on this one too till we have put together an adequate considered response..


  • #3
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Thanks for holding off Eurorunner.

    You will see here
    that I have published guidelines on how we should approach such events in future.

    Since both the Newstalk 106 and Today FM interviews where so similiar, I think we should discuss them both here together.

    I'll get the ball rolling:

    Station: Newstalk 106
    Show: Breakfast with David McWilliams
    Date: 24th of October 2003
    Interviewer: David McWilliams
    Interviewee: David McRedmond, Commercial Director of Eircom
    Recording:
    Here MP3 1.3MB 8:49 long
    Contact: breakfast@newstalk106.ie

    The main points from the interview:

    - Eircom responsible for the breakthrough in Broadband in Ireland.
    - Connecting in excess of 1000 customers per week.
    - 100,000 connected to bb by 2004
    - BB rolled out to over 1 million lines in the country.
    - Reduced BB prices twice this year.
    - Eircom have driven bb since the regulatory and technical issues where sorted out.
    - Leased lines cheaper then the UK and US.
    - Rolling out bb based on the government spatial strategy, most places will have bb within a few months.
    - BB costs e45 pre VAT, e35 if you pay a connection fee.
    - Bang on the European average price for BB.
    - In terms of cost of living, which is how the OECD measure it, BB in Ireland is amongst the cheapest in europe.
    - 2nd or 3rd cheapest in Europe when adjusted for high input costs.
    - They are behaving like a good commercial company.
    - Eircom have reduced their cost and overhead by 25% over the last two years.
    - Eircom is an efficient company.
    - They are the only infrastructure investor in Ireland.
    - They have built broadband Ireland.
    - If Eircom had the subsidies that Korean Telecom had, then they might be able to sell bb for e200 a year also.
    - Maybe the government could reduce VAT on bb.

    Station: Today FM
    Show: The Last Word
    Date: Sun 02 November 2003, 11 AM
    Interviewer: ?
    Interviewee: David McRedmond, Commercial Director of Eircom
    Recording:
    lo-fi stream - http://www.electronicscene.com/trac...Interview_p.m3u

    mp3 download - http://www.electronicscene.com/trac...m_Interview.mp3
    Contact: ?

    The main points from the interview:

    - 512k is towards the higher end of minimum standards for BB in Europe.
    - 20% of the people who are signing up for BB didn't have the internet at home previously.
    - DSL is a low cost way of delivering BB (as opposed to Fiber).
    - It will cost you about 45 euro a month. Now, we've a promotion that
    says you can get it for 35 euro a month (that's pre VAT), so you're
    talking about 45 euro a month.
    - Rolling out BB faster then anywhere else.
    - BB take up curve which is stronger then any other country.
    - He wants everyone to get behind the momentum in BB.
    - The MAN project is a duplication of Infrastructure that Eircom already have and it is not required.
    - They have been working with the government to decide where BB should be rolled out.
    - Eircom want the government to help in those areas where it is not economically viable to rollout DSL and that Eircom will drive this rollout (I assume with government money).
    - Eircoms ambition is "We are building broadband Ireland".
    - They want Ireland to be at the top end of European countries, not the bottom.
    - BB isn't even coming close to making a return on investment (in the infrastructure for BB).
    - In terms of corporate broadband (I assume he means leased lines), Ireland has the cheapest international connectivity and one of the cheapest National connectivity.


  • #4
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I'm a bit tired now :) so I will leave it until tomorrow and I will work through each point then.


  • #5
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    This is the first lot from Newstalk.

    Eircom responsible for the breakthrough in Broadband in Ireland.

    Mention the dialup cash cow and how FRIACO killed it, but don't focus on it. Focus instead on Britain and ask the question: Why did it take so long? Why is Britain two or even three years ahead? What exactly is different?

    Connecting in excess of 1000 customers per week.
    100,000 connected to bb by 2004

    Take these two together and use them to push for better products and services. The people getting DSL now are getting it for business and/or because they're first-movers. The prices /have/ to come down if Eircom want to meet these targets. When are they coming down? When is Eircom going to produce realistic services with realistic limits?

    BB rolled out to over 1 million lines in the country.

    This one has to be killed. We've covered this a hundred times, you should all know the response to it; you should all mention it in your emails, letters and faxes.

    Reduced BB prices twice this year.

    These are "fake" reductions. Again, this has been covered in some detail.

    Eircom have driven bb since the regulatory and technical issues where sorted out.

    Eircom is one hundred percent responsible for the regulatory and technical issues. It fought the regulators and OLO's on pricing and specifications every step of the way, and if the regulator hadn't settled for entirely unreasonable compromises, it would still be doing it. No credit for Eircom here whatsoever.

    Leased lines cheaper then the UK and US.

    This is patently untrue. Eircom need to prove this with facts and figures.

    Rolling out bb based on the government spatial strategy, most places will have bb within a few months.

    Define "most" please. Eircom would be stupid to roll out DSL to "most" places, so they look stupid for making the statement and they'll look stupid if they try to defend it. Concentrate on that.

    BB costs e45 pre VAT, e35 if you pay a connection fee.

    Most of the people listening to these shows are consumers, quote consumer prices please. Also detail the product specification exactly.

    Bang on the European average price for BB.
    In terms of cost of living, which is how the OECD measure it, BB in Ireland is amongst the cheapest in europe.

    Concentrate on the cost of living angle. Ask anyone in Ireland about cost of living, they all know we're being robbed blind. Most of them don't do anything about it, but you can bet your bottom dollar they'll whine about it given a chance. Leverage that.

    2nd or 3rd cheapest in Europe when adjusted for high input costs.

    I have no idea what this means, anyone care to explain?

    They are behaving like a good commercial company.

    Good to their shareholders or good to their customers? Seriously, ask the question. We know the answer, but make them say it.

    Eircom have reduced their cost and overhead by 25% over the last two years.

    So? I don't give a toss what you've done with your cost and overhead, I just want better prices. Pass the reductions on to us please.

    Eircom is an efficient company.

    Eircom is efficient at spending money on advertising. Eircom has certainly created efficiencies, but when you consider the horrendous inefficiencies in Telecom Eireann, it wouldn't take a whole lot to improve it.

    They are the only infrastructure investor in Ireland.

    Patently untrue. Esat has invested millions in their network, Netsource is in the process of investing millions and UTV's network partners have made substantial investments too.

    They have built broadband Ireland.

    They actively prevent others from building broadband Ireland by obstructing access to their exchanges, networks and the last mile.

    If Eircom had the subsidies that Korean Telecom had, then they might be able to sell bb for e200 a year also.

    Eircom has had millions in subsidies for the rollout of fibre networks. A subsidy is a subsidy, it's all incoming cash. It's up to them to leverage it properly.

    Maybe the government could reduce VAT on bb.

    The Government has already created initatives to cut the cost of broadband. It's important to point out here that the neither the regulator nor the Minister for Communications appear to believe that Eircom's products are cost-oriented.

    adam


  • #6
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    This is for the second interview. If these really are the statements the Eircom rep made, he should have been torn apart by the interviewer. Nearly every statement is unfounded or just plain garbage, 100% pure pol-speak. Interviewers should be able to spot this a mile off no matter what the subject matter.

    512k is towards the higher end of minimum standards for BB in Europe.

    This is a non-statement, it's like saying "128k is towards the higher end of minimum standards for ISDN in Europe". 512k is and always has been the "regular" downstream for DSL, don't try to paint it as something special please.

    20% of the people who are signing up for BB didn't have the internet at home previously.

    Another non-statement. So these people wanted broadband, so what? Ask Eircom why they think this is important.

    - DSL is a low cost way of delivering BB (as opposed to Fiber).

    Another one. So what?

    - It will cost you about 45 euro a month. Now, we've a promotion that says you can get it for 35 euro a month (that's pre VAT), so you're talking about 45 euro a month.

    Again with the prices. If it's going to cost the majority of the listenernship €55 (or €43), use inclusive prices please. (Actually, this is something that should be pushed heavily on radio jocks and journalists, far too many people are allowed get away with it.) Also, please explain the contractual requirements of the €43 product and how it differs from the €55 product.

    Rolling out BB faster then anywhere else.
    BB take up curve which is stronger then any other country.

    Define "everywhere else". Is Eircom seriously trying to tell us that rollout is faster than Japan and Korea, where I can pick up a free DSL modem on the street?

    He wants everyone to get behind the momentum in BB.

    Eh, what? We've been pushing for DSL for years, why didn't Eircom get behind it then?

    The MAN project is a duplication of Infrastructure that Eircom already have and it is not required.

    The MAN project is duplication of infrastrcture that Eircom actively try to prevent other operators getting access to. Either open the Eircom networks or shut up and let people compete on an even ground.

    They have been working with the government to decide where BB should be rolled out.

    This is a bizarre statement. Any facts out there to support this?

    Eircom want the government to help in those areas where it is not economically viable to rollout DSL and that Eircom will drive this rollout (I assume with government money).

    I don't have a problem with this as long as there is a return on the government's investment.

    Eircoms ambition is "We are building broadband Ireland".

    Covered.

    They want Ireland to be at the top end of European countries, not the bottom.

    Don't we all. Eircom's current products and pricing don't support this assertion though.

    BB isn't even coming close to making a return on investment (in the infrastructure for BB).

    Flip-flopping. If it's not generating ROI, why are you doing it? Make up your mind Eircom!

    In terms of corporate broadband (I assume he means leased lines), Ireland has the cheapest international connectivity and one of the cheapest National connectivity.

    Again, I don't believe this, but I'd be happy to review the facts and figures.

    adam


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  • #7
    Ripwave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Ripwave


    Originally posted by bk
    - It will cost you about 45 euro a month. Now, we've a promotion that says you can get it for 35 euro a month (that's pre VAT), so you're talking about 45 euro a month.
    This one really annoys me - the only thing eircom are promoting at the moment is the first month free, free installation €54.45 package. (Which costs 10%-15% more than a similiar offering from IOL and UTV).

    You only get "€10 a month off" if you pay up front for an engineer install (€200, rather more that the €10 a month you save).

    The Eircom Broadband explicitly says Our new broadband service, eircom broadband starter is specially designed for you the home user and now quotes the VAT inclusive price of €54.45 (no nice round numbers ending in .99 for eircom - they prefer nice round ex-VAT numbers). The only mention of a "€10 off" service uses ex-VAT pricing, and is clearly not being promoted as a residential service.

    It's a bit pathetic when Eircoms head of Marketing (or whatever McRedmond is), doesn't even know what his own minions are actually marketing.


  • #8
    Eurorunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Eurorunner


    David McWilliams: Ireland is lagging 2-3 years behind the rest of Europe when it comes to broadband takeup. At IBEC’s Telecoms conference yesterday, Minister Dermot Aherne said that his dept. still regularly receives complaints by business people and members of the public that cannot get broadband. The minister also pointed out that a lowly 39% of irish adults now have internet access at home. Many believe that the blame for this situation rests squarely on Eircom. Critics of that company say its been dragging its heels on broadband because of its reluctance to invest in new technology and also a desire to keep people in the more lucrative dialup service which is charged by the minute instead of like broadband by the flat rate. David McRedmond, Commercial Director of Eircom joins me to answer these charges. You’ve always refused to come on, thanks for coming in!

    McR: I don’t think I’ve ever had an invite before.

    McW: We’ve always being ringing up eircom at length ad nauseum. The charge is very simple..that eircom are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

    McR: You said earlier, is Eircom to blame for the delay..i think Eircom is responsible for the breakthrough and I think what we announced yesterday is that we’ve had a real breakthough in broadband. We’re now signing up in excess of 1000 customers a week on broadband. We have done that by rolling out broadband to over a million lines in the country. We have slashed the cost of broadband twice this year and we are marketing it very heavily. Its happening now and we’re hitting the targets that we set last July of 100,000 lines by DEC 04 – which at the time, some media commentators said, well that’s hugely ambitious considering nothings happened.

    McW: My own personal experience as member of joe public, I tried to get with yourselves and I eventually went to ESAT BT despite the fact that I was an Eircom landline customer for donkeys years. I’d never done any business with ESAT BT, I got ESAT BT wireless broadband simply because the price was cheaper and they said they’d come and do it and Eircom said oh no sorry, the line doesn’t go up to our neck of the woods..and the point is that Eircom up to now has been part of the problem. Are you chaning your tune cos you want to sell the company?

    McR: I think what we have said – and certainly what we have said yesterday is that there is a change in Eircom, this is a new Eircom, We have new owners and we’ve a new attitude which has a bias to get things done..

    McW: But you’ve had new owners for two years David?

    McR: yeah, and we have driven broadband since we straightened out whatever issues there were – whether it be on the regulatory front or other fronts to get broadband in front of people. We’ve now done that, its now available, its been available..its actually been available for a couple of years but the low cost broadband which also yesterday by the way, we said yes we were slow..

    McW: Why were you slow?

    McR: There were many issues and I think there were many reasons whether it be regulatory reasons, whether it be technical reasons, whatever the reasons, we actually had broadband available, the issue was to make it available at a price that would be attractive for consumers. Broadband has been hugely available in this country from Eircom for businesses and corporate customers for years –and at a level that is cheaper than in the US, cheaper than in the UK and more available.

    McW: For businesses that’s fine, that’s a different gig altogether..for individuals its quite separate.

    McW: Why the differences in different areas (availability).

    McR: Because broadband is rolled out by exchanges, now what we’ve done in terms of that rollout is …we’re very much following the governments spatial strategy. We’ve worked closely with government in terms of saying well where should we make broadband available first. We’ve rolled it out as we say to just about a million lines so most areas will have it so if they don’t have it now, they’ll have it in the next few months.

    McW: How much will it cost?

    McR: Broadband at the moment costs 45 euro per month pre VAT..and you can have it for 35 euro per month if you pay a connection.

    McW: 45 euros per month…whats that per year…that’s expensive..

    McW: 500 before VAT per year?

    McR: That is bang on the European average for broadband and in terms of cost of living which is how the regulators measure it, which is how the OECD measure it, when its adjusted for that, its amongst the cheapest in Europe. This is a high cost economy, theres high input costs into eircom/telecoms and the price when adjusted for that is the second or third cheapest in Europe.

    McW: Can I look at corporate strategy up to now? It seems to me that the charm offensive from Eircom reflects the strategic corporate objectives of the company..one of which is now Eircom are talking about maybe we’ll refloat the company..ok, maybe we’ll resell it to the punters…so very clearly you’ve got to give a feel-good factor, a warm feeling plus a product called broadband into the market as a marketing strategy…up to now, the view of the company was let us extract as much of the money we paid for the company out of the consumers as quickly as possible to pay our original investors..and what we have basically is a split deal…this is nothing to do with us..its got everything to do with you.

    McR: We’re behaving like a good commercial company and make no apologies for that. We are reducing our costs..we’ver reduced our costs hugely..we’ve reduced our costs by 25% over the last 2 years …reduced the head count by 25% over the last 2 years..we have reduced telecoms prices…if you actually look at prices for utilities in ireland, every utility has price increases ahead of inflation except one…telecoms prices..low inflation cos we’re driving an efficient company ..its good for the economy..its good for customers.

    McW: Do you think theres too many players in the telecoms market?...becuase that’s what your suggesting..that you’re a utility and that only one player should be in the game because of the cost of investment.

    McR: I think cost of investment is critical. We are the only infrastructure investor in Ireland…we’re the only serious telecoms investor in Ireland..we built broadband Ireland..

    McW: ESAT BT isn’t serious?

    McR: ESAT BT is a reseller of Eircoms broadband. They have invested somewhat in telecoms infrastructure but its miniscule..there investment compared to our investment..they wont tell us what there investment is but its miniscule when compared with..

    McW: €500 a year for a consumer at home to use broadband…where do you see that price going over the course of the next year given your commercial corporate strategy that you alluded to?

    McR: The more people that take up broadband and the faster that we can sell broadband – we think that’s in the countrys interest and in the consumers interest – the faster we can do that and the more people that have it …of course theres economies of scale and there are more opportunities. What we’re running at the moment is a promotion and there will be more promotions but im not going to say way in advance..

    McW: Korean prices of around 200 euros a year?

    McR: Korean prices? Well if we had the subsidies probably that Korean telecoms have, then probably …we would look to government to do certain things…maybe VAT could be reduced on broadband..maybe there can be other things to stimulate it…
    McW: David McRedmond Commercial Director of Eircom, Thank you…


  • #9
    Eurorunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Eurorunner


    McR: Broadband describes a certain speed and capacity without getting too technical, in this country the minimum standard is 512kb’s – now that means that ……and as a minimum standard its one of the…its towards the higher end of minimum standards in Europe…every country would have a different standard.

    McR: What it means in reality for people is you …in terms particularly of internet which is where you would use it, you can have your computer on all day – now you can do that with ‘narrowband’ as well with FRIACO but with broadband you can have your computer on all day. You can do a whole load of things…entertainment, you can send big files of information and it all just goes very fast an almost instantaneous..

    Interviewer: So it will do what the internet will ordinarily do but it will do it faster and you don’t have to dialup everytime..

    McR: It will do it faster, you don’t have to dialup and it has the kind of net effect that really, your pc at home actually becomes really useable. One of the interesting things as we’ve been rolling out broadband is (that) we’ve discovered quite a high number of people who don’t have internet at home. Twenty per cent of our sales are to people who don’t even have internet at home and our assumption there is that these are people who are used to…in offices having instant access to the internet and having very fast access..when they can’t be bothered with ‘narrowband’ – so it’s a fantastic product – once you have it, you wont turn back..

    Interviewer: Just on that point, what would it cost, lets say someone listening out there - separate to the cost to businesses – cos its obviously of use to them as well – somebody who’s sitting at home, they’re thinking about getting this..how much is it going to cost them.

    McR: Well, the product which we have which is called DSL which was the other thing you were asking me about Richard – what DSL is ..its a technology that enables you to deliver..it enables Eircom or anybody to deliver broadband over a copper network..that means over the existing telephone network so rather than having to redig the roads, rebuild, put in very expensive fibre and do a very expensive rollout, it’s a very lowcost and practical way to deliver broadband and its certainly the way that its being delivered in most places now..we’re very keen on that because the economy…

    Interviewer: But what would it cost you.

    McR: Well, it would cost you about 45 euro a month…now we’ve a promotion at the moment that says you can get it for 35 euro a month..thats pre-VAT – so your talking about roughly..about 45 euro a month.

    Interviewer: Is there a sufficient demand for it at that kind of price..an awful lot of people at home have access to the internet at work and they don’t really want all that expense..

    McR: I think two things are happening..the first is that the use of the internet is becoming all pervasive and particularly any of us with children can see that..that children just assume that you can get access to the internet in most places so you’ve got a real demand in terms of people wanting access. The other thing that is happening is that as the price comes down, we’re making a breakthrough and we’ve made a real breakthrough on broadband ..and we are now selling in excess of 1,000 connections a week so that’s a real movement and theres real momentum behind that so certainly we’ve made the breakthrough, the price – and I said it earlier when we were talking about the papers – the price is bang on the European average but actually in terms of cost of living..in terms of everything else, we are rated as second cheapest in Europe for broadband..

    Interviewer: If we broaden this out a bit and I ask the question what is the state of the broadband nation, your critics would say that what your doing is not enough, its too slow, you’ve been too late to do it and your too expensive..

    McR: Well, I could take each of those…On one charge we’ve said yes, we were slow, we were late to start…On every other one of those charges – Absolutely Not. We are rolling out broadband faster than its being rolled out anywhere else. We have a demand curve which looks as if its stronger than any other country in Europe..the price as I’ve said is amongst the cheapest and that’s why we’ve made this breakthrough, that’s why the orders are coming in and I think everybody needs to get behind that momentum. It is extremely important for Ireland that we get mass-market broadband out there

    Interviewer: We talked about competitiveness there earlier and the fact in Ireland is the State has actually had to intervine and setup a tendering process to rollout and fund the rollout of broadband itself because the view was that Eircom wasn’t doing enough..you were stalling on it..


    McR: Well, there may have been that view, but what the State has done is something which is completely different..now what the State is doing is investing in big fibre networks around towns where we already have them. Its complete duplication of infrastructure, its not required and instead, what we’re calling on the State to do, and indeed we’ve worked fairly closely with government and government have been helpful in terms of helping us to design where the rollout should go ..we’re working very closely with them on what should happen. What we want government to do is to help in those areas where its just not economically viable currently to rollout DSL and broadband and we will meet them on that and we will absolutely drive it..you know, nobody should doubt Eircom’s ambition on broadband..our ambition now is very clear..we stated it very clearly..we are building broadband Ireland and we want Ireland to be towards the top end of European countries and not towards the bottom end..we’re moving very fast on that.

    Interviewer: Just finally David McRedmond, on the question of price and the rollout of broadband, I assume as a private company, you wouldn’t be doing it unless you were going to make a profit out of it. How profitable is broadband at the prices your charging?

    McR: Well profit is also one of those things you measure against your operating costs..yes it covers the operating costs and you make a profit..against the investment it isn’t even beginning to make a return on investment. The investment requirements are huge. Our Return On Investment (ROI) is a ROI that we’re allowed by the regulator. Our ROI was actually cut when the government cut the corporation tax cos they said, oh you don’t need to make such big returns cos corporation tax is down. The regulator went completely counter to govt. policy which was to encourage investment so we need much more work done from the regulator to encourage investment but whatever happens there, we are going to drive broadband and we’re going to insure that this country is right at the top of competitiveness..i’d just say Richard that in terms of corporate broadband, we are at the top of the league, we have the cheapest international broadband connectivity, one of the cheapest national broadband connectivities – corporate broadband is sometimes called leased lines – and it is with the third higest availability in Europe. We’ll do the same with mass market broadband.

    Interviewer: OK, David McRedmond, Commercial Director of Eircom, we’ll have to leave it there…


  • #10
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Wow Eurorunner, that is very impressive. Thanks for your time and effort.


  • #11
    LFCFan
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 3,821 Mod ✭✭✭✭LFCFan


    it makes my blood boil listening to crap like that. I really wish some of these interviewers would get in contact with IoffL before the interviews and get a list of questions and a list of facts so they can shoot down all the lies.


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  • #12
    elexes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭elexes


    wish i knew all the facts so i could send a e-mail off complaining about it . but ill leave it to those that are better at it such as bk/eurorunner/dahamsta/ripwave/muck they seem to be doing a good job . dont suppose the radio programs in question would bring on members of ioffl and interview them as part of a continuation of the program ? r maby get on the tec part of 2fm ?


  • #13
    De Rebel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭De Rebel


    I'd respectfully suggest that a long drawn out point by point analysis appearing a week after the original broadcast is none of "Rapid" "Reactionary" or "Forceful". IMHO, a complete waste of time and fraught with negative benefit. A professional Press Release will never have more than 4/5 paragraphs and will never exceed one A4 page.

    Releasing something based on the above would make IOFFL look like a bunch of pedantic anoraks. And slow moving ones at that.

    To be effective we should have a response out within a few hours, and this should be in the form of 2 or 3 factual bullet points correcting any particularly ambiguous or misleading statements. This is how a professional PR operation would respond. Obviously it should be completely devoid of any personal attacks, even if some of us do believe the interviewee to be a *******, a ***** or whatever.

    Releasing long winded refutations every time eircom are on air is going to get us branded as anti-eircom (which I hope we are not) and tarnish all our good work in the eyes of the very people we are trying to influence.

    I would respond with something like that contained in the following post. And remember timing is everything. This would need to be out in no more than a few hours.


  • #14
    De Rebel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭De Rebel


    David McRedmond, Commercial Director of Eircom, speaking on Today FM's The Last Word at 11.00am today (Sunday 2nd Nov), made a number of statements which IOFFL believes could mislead listeners.

    Specifically, IOFFL would like to highlight the following....

    David McRedmond said that broadband is available for a standard price €45. In reality, for the great majority of users the cost is €54.45. The cheaper price is (a) a short term promotion available for another 7 weeks (b) a VAT exclusive price for large companies who are VAT registered and therefore not available to the public or a great number of small businesses.

    David McRedmond said "most places will have broadband within a few months". The facts are that eircom will make broadband available to a maximum of 110 exchanges. This will leave over 1000 exchanges which will not have broadband. In addition, IOFFL points out that only a percentage of the people connected to these exchanges can avail of broadband - the remainder fail eircom's strict entry criteria either because of poorly maintained eircom lines or distance from eircom's exchanges. IOFFL calls on eircom to greatly increase the number of exchanges it is enabling, to speed up the rollout, and to work with those who’s lines fail to remedy the problems, something which eircom is currently flatly refusing to do. IOFFL also want to see eircom move quickly to use newer DSL technologies to provide broadband to those who happen to live more than a few miles from an eircom exchange, thus ending the current broadband “haves” vs. “have nots” discrimination, especially in rural areas.

    Speaking about cost David Mc Redmond said that "eircom's broadband is 2nd or 3rd cheapest in Europe when adjusted for high input costs" This is a statistical figure, which means nothing to the euros in our wallets. Many countries in Europe charge less for broadband, and the majority of those countries who charge slightly more are offering a product superior to the eircom offering. IOFFL calls on eircom to stop playing with numbers and statistics and reduce it prices. IOFFL would also like to see eircom benchmark itself against international best practice, and not just the European countries. We are mindful that jobs can be taken from us by any efficient broadband enabled economy, not just European ones.

    IOFFL is working to promote the use and availability of Broadband in Ireland. IOFFL welcomes eircom's new found willingness to take to the airwaves to promote the cause of broadband and to promote its usage. Eircom is holding in trust for the Nation a communications network which was built up by the Irish people by 80 years of investment and sacrifice. IOFFL calls on eircom to engage with its users, to listen to its users, and to build a product that actually meets the user’s needs. IOFFL remains ready and willing to meet eircom at anytime to assist eircom in understanding the needs of users from all sections of the community.

    Ireland is currently in 30th place in the International Growth Competitiveness Index, down from - 4th place in 2000, 11th place in 2001,and 23rd place in 2002. Broadband price and availability are a major factor in this index and the slow rollout and high price are a major contributor to Ireland falling behind other economies. IOFFL calls on eircom to fully and wholeheartedly support Minister Ahearn’s initiatives to improve our rating in this critical index.

    Note: Given that this is a sample, I've not checked the numerical/volume facts for current accuracy. What's quoted here is for demonstration purposes, actual figures may be different


  • #15
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Well, that looks like exactly the sort of thing that is needed. Obviously, long winded point by point refutations would not have been appropriate.


  • #16
    spongebob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭spongebob


    Originally posted by De Rebel
    David McRedmond, Commercial Director of Eircom, speaking on

    David McRedmond said "most places will have broadband within a few months". The facts are that eircom will make broadband available to a maximum of 110 exchanges. This will leave over 1000 exchanges which will not have broadband. In addition, IOFFL points out that only a percentage of the people connected to these exchanges can avail of broadband - the remainder fail eircom's strict entry criteria either because of poorly maintained eircom lines or distance from eircom's exchanges.
    Note: Given that this is a sample, I've not checked the numerical/volume facts for current accuracy. What's quoted here is for demonstration purposes, actual figures may be different

    Eircom stated that they would do 150 exchanges out of the 1100, nationally thats 14% of exchanges and Here is the Eircom announcement in January 2003. This rollout will be complete by September 2004.

    Each exchange covers roughly the same area, so roughly 14% of Ireland will get BB from Eircom. Not all households in an exchange area would within the test limits so I am being generous

    86% of Ireland will not get BB according to Eircom.

    In simple mathematical terms 86% = "Most Places" to Quote Mc Redmonds words (you may tell him how to compute geographically yourselves, its dmcredmond@eircom.ie ISTR).

    M


  • #17
    Ripwave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Ripwave


    Originally posted by De Rebel
    And remember timing is everything. This would need to be out in no more than a few hours.
    Responding to a weekly broadcast, or an article in a Sunday newspaper, within a few hours won't buy you anything.

    Yes, you need a response in plenty of time for it to be looked into before the following weeks broadcast, or publication. But you're better off getting it right on Tuesday than wrong 20 minutes after the program goes off the air.


  • #18
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    I don't think anybody was suggesting point-by-point refutations, however the points do need to be refuted. I was under the impression the forum would be used to this end, and the result turned into a press release. Much like De Rebel has done.

    adam


  • #19
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Originally posted by De Rebel

    To be effective we should have a response out within a few hours, and this should be in the form of 2 or 3 factual bullet points correcting any particularly ambiguous or misleading statements. This is how a professional PR operation would respond. Obviously it should be completely devoid of any personal attacks, even if some of us do believe the interviewee to be a *******, a ***** or whatever.

    I agree with you De Rebel. The actual letters to the broadcaster should be no more then one page and only a few points. Like with the letter you posted above.

    However the reason why I would like to get a full point by point synopsis of what was said, is so that we have a full understanding of everything that Eircom is saying. By doing this we are better prepared for when these points come up in the future. Of course when writting a letter to the broadcaster, only the 4 or 5 most important points should be discussed.

    I also agree that we should get a response to the newspaper/broadcaster within a day or two of the event. I know that isn't possible now with these two interviews, that is why I would like to put in place a strategy and framework for future events if any.


  • #20
    Ripwave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Ripwave


    Originally posted by Muck
    Eircom stated that they would do 150 exchanges out of the 1100, nationally thats 14% of exchanges and Here is the Eircom announcement in January 2003. This rollout will be complete by September 2004.

    Each exchange covers roughly the same area, so roughly 14% of Ireland will get BB from Eircom.
    This is simply not true. An exchange in Dublin or Cork, or any large town will cover far more homes than an exchange in a rural town. If each of the 1100 exchanges were the same size, there would be over 400 exchanges in and around Dublin.

    There's no point in challenging eircoms bogus and dodgy "facts" with bogus and dodgy "facts" of our own.

    A simple list of the cost of the basic broadband package in each of the 15 EU states, preferable with info on availability, should be the basis for any rebuttal. It should be the cost of the most widely available option (preferably supplied by the "incumbent" operator), not simpley the cheapest option, as that can too easily be dismissed as a "gimmick", or "limited availability". That probably means asking non-technical people who live in those countries what their impression of their home market is.

    Even showing that eircom is the only dominant provider in the whole EU who picks a nice, "consumer friendly" round number for their package, and then adds VAT, rather than setting a VAT inclusive "round number" will have an impact.

    (And having made that suggestion, I'm going on holidays for two weeks, and won't be here to help put it together).


  • #21
    Ripwave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭Ripwave


    Originally posted by De Rebel
    Speaking about cost David Mc Redmond said that "eircom's broadband is 2nd or 3rd cheapest in Europe when adjusted for high input costs" This is a statistical figure, which means nothing to the euros in our wallets. Many countries in Europe charge less for broadband, and the majority of those countries who charge slightly more are offering a product superior to the eircom offering.
    I know that this is only meant as a sample, but in some ways it is actually too well written. That paragraph sounds great, but it is actually guilty of exactly the same thing it's trying to counter.

    Again, I stress that I want to make constructive criticism, I'm not just nit-picking. The answer to eircoms handwaving about 2nd or 3rd cheapest is a clear and unambiguous list of the cost of comparable products, with specs. (Comparable is the key point - compare them to BT, not to some geek ISP in the north of England that has 700 customers).

    It's sometimes hard to understand why, but eircom still have huge credibility in Ireland (maybe that €11 million annual advertising budget that someone mentioned recently has something to do with it). You can't challenge that credibility with rhetoric, no matter how stirring or impressive it is. You can only challenge that credibility by clearly demonstrating that the eircom spokesperson was wrong on matters of fact. This is often difficult to do, because eircom keep a lot of pertinent information (like the exact number of exchanges and lines that are DSL capable) under wraps, claiming that it is "commercially sensitive", but retail prices we do have access to.


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  • #22
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    However the reason why I would like to get a full point by point synopsis of what was said, is so that we have a full understanding of everything that Eircom is saying. By doing this we are better prepared for when these points come up in the future.

    This is /exactly/ what I had in mind.

    I also agree that we should get a response to the newspaper/broadcaster within a day or two of the event.

    This also creates an opportunity for two communications with the relevant newspaper/broadcaster -- push a response out in two days and follow up in another two days. The follow-up is likely to be a clincher in many cases.

    adam


  • #23
    spongebob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭spongebob


    Originally posted by Ripwave
    This is simply not true. An exchange in Dublin or Cork, or any large town will cover far more homes than an exchange in a rural town. If each of the 1100 exchanges were the same size, there would be over 400 exchanges in and around Dublin.

    Mc Redmond used the phrase "Places" . Therefore I pointed out the extent of Eircoms GEOGRAPHICAL coverage, I have no idea where you got the 400 figure from.....the top of your head maybe?

    The State has 70,000 square kilometres. The 1100 exchanges have an average coverage of 64 Square KILOMETRES which means that on a crude radius calculation (reverse pi R2) that each exchange covers out to 4.5Km in every direction which is more than the RADSL limit at present.

    County Dublin has about 1800 Square Kilometres and should be covered by 29 exchanges if the national average is followed. County Dublin has more like 50 exchanges and is therefore ALREADY OVERPROVIDED. Ye are welcome to the 400 exchanges in Dublin but not at the expense of the rest of us.

    The reason why GEOGRAPHICAL coverage is important is because

    1. There are no regulatory requirements of any kind to roll out DSL, the market (as represented by the monopoly) has provided 14% Geographic coverage in the state, as I said I am being generous here, it is less than that.

    2. There ARE regulatory requirements to roll out 3.5Ghz DSL substitutes on a GEOGRAPHICAL coverage basis. Eircom should ALREADY have covered between 20% and 25% of the state according to their licence. Yet we cannot get these DSL services despite these regulatory requirements because the muppets in Comreg will not enforce the licences they tyemselves awarded Eircom.

    M


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