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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    It has been pointed out on this thread there is no gas storage buffer here in Ireland since the closure of the Kinsale field., leaving us hoping and depending on a relatively mild Winter to get by. The cost of a reliable grid is calculated as the capacity cost (idle gas and coal fired plants are not running just to make room for the power coming from the wind and solar generators), and it is the reason that adding wind or solar generation drives up the price of electricity. This is why countries with the most wind and solar tend to have very expensive electricity. The more wind and solar you have in the generation mix, the greater the capacity cost. Batteries are not a realistic option, because the cost of backup batteries is far greater than the capacity cost of using fossil fuels.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,292 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The Gas industry has made you believe that wind can't work.

    And they're right, but nobody is proposing a 100% wind powered grid.

    Wind + storage + Solar + geothermal + Nuclear + Biomass + Hydroelectric + Hydrogen + Hydrogen storage (likely through Ammonia) all working across distributed generation systems in a European interconnected super-grid

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    What’s more important….

    Washing cartons, tins and jars before putting into recycling bins?

    or

    leaving them dirty and conserving the water that would have been used to wash them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,147 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    once again, many of these issues were known long before this government, i.e. this isnt purely a greens problem, but a successive government problem, as advice leading up this, has been largely ignored.....

    washing waste is a part of the recycling process, so......



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭ps200306



    Wind + storage + Solar + geothermal + Nuclear + Biomass + Hydroelectric + Hydrogen + Hydrogen storage (likely through Ammonia) all working across distributed generation systems in a European interconnected super-grid

    At what point is someone going to stop handwaving and come up with a costed plan for all that?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,147 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    multiples of billions, wont be done unless theres widescale eu agreements made, thankfully it looks like the ecb is seriously considering radical polices such as dual rates for this.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,643 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The gas industry does not need to make anyone believe wind energy does not work as it was being hyped. Wind has done that all on it`s own.

    You really need to cut back on the hopium and take a clear eyed look at energy generation, rather than dreaming about imaginary far away green fields.Although with you including Nuclear in that mix perhaps you are beginning to realise that if you want a reliable CO2 free energy source that delivers what it says on the output capacity tin, then it is the only one that can do that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,643 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    If I spent two years in my job not just ignoring emails and memos but adding to the problem, when it became obvious the company was about to hit the wall, how do you think my excuse of "The person before me was ignoring emails and memos as well" would work out ?The buck would rightly stop with me.

    Government is no different. Especially in this case where along with ignoring Eirgrid and CRU warnings the Minister went even further by adding to the problems.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,147 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    when you continually ignore a serious problem for years, maybe decades, it generally ends up costing more, when the sh1t eventually hits the fan, and when the general consensus is, 'we cant afford it', generally, fcuk all happens!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,292 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Except that battery storage is much cheaper than gas peaker plants

    And they're better at frequency regulation and have near instant response. Replacing 'peakers' with batteries would make the grid more efficient, cost less and allow increased use of renewable energy

    This means we only need gas and coal for baseload until we can build more interconnectors and the offshore wind and solar infrastructure.

    Every additional Solar or wind farm incrementally reduces our need for gas and coal. and when they're not needed for baseload at all, they'll be sitting dormant most of the time waiting for the times when they are needed. Ultimately they won't be needed at all, but when people say 'We'll need gas until 2050' that means in 2050 we'll be able to decommission the last gas power plant. Long before then, they will be needed only for backup and will be burning a tiny fraction of the gas we consume today.

    In terms of cost, Offshore wind was recently auctioned off in the UK 9 times cheaper than the cost of producing electricity from gas

    Ireland auctioned off our wind for about double the UK price but still way cheaper than the cost of producing energy from Gas at current gas prices.

    The UK have a more mature offshore wind industry, the next round of Auctions, we should be able to command a better price as there won't be as much new infrastructure needed to support the industry

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,643 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    As I said if you spend two years ignoring emails, memos and adding to the problem then why should the excuse "The person before me ignored stuff as well" be acceptable from a Minister when it`s would be a sacking offence in business ?

    Do that in business and your out the door without your feet hitting the ground. Even with the buck passing that goes on in this country politically, Ministers have been forced to resign or been sacked for less.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,643 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    If you are going to borrow money for any project then the very minimum requirement would be how much you require to get the project completed. Until somebody can come up with an answer to that, it is pointless to talk about borrowing or interest rates.

    We do not have to look far back in time to see what cheap borrowed money ends up costing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Looks like there won't be anymore windmills being built if the EU reforms the energy market. And the ones built will prob be used till end of life then dismantled. Unless people are suggesting the Green energy companies will run at a breadline ?


    Edit. Hahahha

    Just heard what I have been saying. Data centers to use their diesel generators to reduce load.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭EOQRTL


    I know a lot of people already struggling badly to keep the lights on. Add heating bills on top of that and it's a recipe for disaster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,292 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The fossil fuel industry aren't looking at the current installed capacity. They are thinking decades ahead. They have assets worth trillions of Euros that need to be left in the ground to avoid catastrophic climate change, but they still want to extract as much of these as they can

    before they become 'stranded assets'

    Governments are planning to abandon fossil fuels, so they've turned their PR focus from buying off politicians, to making the public afraid and demonising renewables.

    It's all about creating fear and doubt. It's the same strategy they've followed on their entire journey since the science showed that climate change required that we reduce CO2 emissions.

    Climate change is happening faster than predicted and time is running out faster. You, unless you're a billionaire, won't be immune from the consequences

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,292 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The government's of the world have spent 4 decades ignoring emails. Failing to build the infrastructure needed to solve the looming problem that they've been ignoring for decades.

    The failure of the predecessors isn't an excuse for the current governments having to take expensive and disruption decisions required to solve that crisis, it's the reason why those decisions are required

    The consequences of inaction get worse and worse the longer we delay action. If you don't agree, ask the 30 million Pakistani people who's entire world's are currently being washed away.

    In 10 years, that could be 300 million displaced people.

    If you don't want a billion displaced people by 2050, we need to demand action now.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,292 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The shitstorm has biblically fell on Pakistan this week. Ireland faces a possible short term energy shortages. With planning, nobody will die.

    The chance of these shortages causing blackouts is well under 50%

    If energy costs cause human suffering in Ireland that's a policy decision by the government to not address that problem. Our budget surplus is almost 5 billion this year. No person in Ireland should go cold or hungry this year

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    What's your opinion on data centers using Diesel generators ? Not very green. Also rumbling from the EU that will have most Green energy companies fleeing for the hills no longer able to make massive profits. Any input ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,292 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    That's bullsh1t. Where did you get this 'statistic' from?

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,409 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Did Trigger actually suggest leaving the oven door open when cooking your dinner to warm up the house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,292 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Not great on the maths of thermodynamics but. say 180 deg you would end up with the room at 60 deg min :P



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,292 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I don't agree with diesel generators. They should be required to have battery storage with solar on the roof

    I also don't get your 'rumblings' comment. Do you have something other than innuendo?

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,292 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    They seem to be about to decouple the price of electricity from gas. First move seems to be Energy price cap. Then a move on the other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    it was on Virgin media panel show not one there contradicted the 14 times higher comment. There was a long conversation about Energy price and what the EU is going to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,292 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I think there may be a few 'coulds' and 'Ifs' thrown in there that haven't been mentioned

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,292 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Energy prices are where they are because we're allowing suppliers to make supernormal profits. The 14x price increase is only if the EU and Ireland does nothing to prevent it

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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