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Robert Troy - Property Mogul

  • 19-08-2022 02:11PM
    #1
    Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭


    I'm really surprised at the lack of commentary on this case here (and apologies if there is a thread I'm missing somewhere).

    The mainstream media seem to have abandoned this story at this point, now that he's amended the record, clarified certain items and released the standard mea culpa, 'nothing to see here' statement.

    The scandal here to me isn't about whether or not he maintained appropriate records, or notified SIPO.

    It's the very fact that he, as a former Westmeath County Councillor and current sitting TD (and Junior Minister) representing Longford-Westmeath was engaged in what appear to be fully off-market transactions with Westmeath County Council, at levels that appear to be far in excess of what comparable properties in the same estates were selling for.

    Most local authorities have clear parameters in place for buying properties, and virtually all require that the property be openly listed to ensure they are paying a fair market price for the property.

    The comments from the Westmeath County Council Director of Services for Housing Mark Keaveney raised more questions than answers here too; by not being able to evidence a transparent, fully above board history of transactions with Troy.

    I cannot understand how this story isn't getting more attention and the press seemed to have just moved on from it.



«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 698 ✭✭✭danoriordan1402




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Thread title here is more appropriate. I heard his first defence on the radio and thought it reasonable enough, selling at a loss to facilitate local housing etc etc

    But since then, a whole lot more colour & queries have been added.

    This man is a senior elected public representative. And he's basically involved in property speculation, churning and flipping properties bought at good prices.

    With his sort of contacts, both at the purchasing end and the potential LA purchasers - really he should be kicked out of office. It's not as if he's not underpaid as a public rep and anyway if he's doing that job properly, how would he have time to be in the property churning business???



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think apologies should only be believed if wrapped in a five pound note.

    Now if he were to make a substantial donation to one of the homeless charities like Simon or the McVery Trust, or even Brother Kevin, it might be more believable.

    Amending the record - Hah!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    You'd wonder how Barry Cowen and Dara Calleary feel about it (2 FF TDs who lost their ministerial posts earlier in this government over transgressions)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Jarhead_Tendler


    There must be a conflict of interest here. Like you I couldn't care less about the records being amended. Who else are getting these deals off councils? Is it a one off? Sadly it most likely isn't imo. Could this be the tip of the iceberg? Would an investigation into NAMA for example show that corruption within the golden circle hasn't gone away?



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  • Posts: 742 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    Cowen resigned because he was too thick to answer Dail questions about who was in the car with him. Good riddance.

    And Calleary was too young, foolish and impetuous to talk things over with the outgoing AG (Seamus Woulfe) before opting to jump off the cliff.

    Troy's antics really need to be investigated. I suspect that he did nothing illegal, although it seems pretty clear that some of his actions were highly inappropriate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,414 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Calleary realised that a quick resignation could save his career. And I think it's worked. He'll probably lead FF yet, albeit what there'll be left to lead is questionable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭Azizur Rahman


    He should be investigated for potential money laundering. Doubling the price of a house? Very dodgey sounding.

    "Mr Troy was asked about a property he had bought for €82,500 in 2019, refurbished over three months and then sold on to Longford County Council for €163,000. He said the property was bought on the open market and it had been in an “uninhabitable state” with a “substantial amount of work to be done”.

    He said he sold it on the open market through a local auctioneer and that €163,000 was “the going rate for that property at the time”. Mr Troy said he incurred refurbishment costs as well as professional fees, and made €36,000 before tax on the sale"

    https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2022/08/23/troy-says-he-owns-11-properties-as-he-apologises-again-for-failure-to-fully-declare-interests/



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,966 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    He won't be investigated for money laundering because you don't know what money laundering is.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Troy gone as Minister.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,006 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Well he has resigned now

    Many opposition parties and TDs have a dislike of landlords. But without small landlords the housing crisis would be far worse. Landlords generate a profit. They need to.

    The state isn't capable of providing housing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,803 ✭✭✭standardg60


    No state is capable of providing housing when the idea of housing everyone has become a money making exercise for those who espouse said ideology.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,006 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Landlords exist to make money. Otherwise its kind of pointless



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭Azizur Rahman


    I know a lot more about money laundering than you. I refer to S.11(4)(b) of the CRIMINAL JUSTICE (MONEY LAUNDERING AND TERRORIST FINANCING) ACT 2010. Learn something please.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The state built Finglas, Ballymun, Ballyfermot, and many other Corpo housing estates that housed many many families in the 1950s and 1960s. and 1970s, up until the state stopped building social housing. That housing was of a very high standard.

    Why did they stop?

    When did the private landlord appear to be a large supplier in the housing market?

    When and why did building societies (who were the major suppliers of mortgages) become banks? And then those banks become major suppliers to speculators in property assets - why was that?

    And many TDs are landlords - either of public houses or rented property. I wonder if that is the link.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,765 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    probably started when thatcher introduced right to buy in UK in the 80s. and the councils there weren't allowed to use monies received to build new council houses.

    I'm guessing ireland just followed that policy sure what could go wrong?

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Exactly - copy the bad policies of the UK.

    Selling council houses here always was an option.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    how is buying a property, refurbishing it and then selling it for a profit count as money laundering. Be specific as to which section of the act it contravenes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭Azizur Rahman


    In ordinary circumstances it wouldn't be considered money laundering but to double the price in three months is quite unusual.

    I refer to S.11(4)(b) of the CRIMINAL JUSTICE (MONEY LAUNDERING AND TERRORIST FINANCING) ACT 2010.

    The seller could have sold it undervalue to pass on significant value without drawing much attention. The buyer sells it on at actual market value to turn value into cash. Simple.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    that's a lot of assumptions based on no evidence at all.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭Azizur Rahman


    Hence an investigation is required to establish the facts. Maybe he is a great businessman or maybe there is more than meets the eye.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Should every property transaction where someone makes a profit be investigated?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,913 ✭✭✭893bet


    While this lad is a snake there is a danger rhetoric around these day.

    1) Landlord are evil and to blame for housing shortage

    2) farmers are evil and to blame for climate change and foot price increases

    3) energy companies are evil etc. and to be blamed for climate change


    try living with out any of the above…..supply and demand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭Azizur Rahman


    No, not every property transaction. But when someone flips something so quick and doubles the sale price raises questions in my book. Also take into consideration, the buyer is a politically exposed person as another risk factor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    `He paid 82,500, spent 44,500 on refurbishments and then sold at a 36,000 profit. so, yes, he did (almost) double the purchase price but he did that by investing additional money on refurbishments. Also, given the low purchase price the property was probably not inhabitable so therefore not eligible for a mortgage. Houses that are cash only sell for lower prices because of the reduced pool of purchases. After refurbishment it would be mortgageable so that increases the pool of purchasers. None of this is in any way remarkable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,672 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    If the house was as bad a state as he says it was, how did he get all that work done in less than 3 months? - keep in mind the property was sold within 3 months, so presumably the works were already completed by the time Westmeath CoCo were involved



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    i've no idea, I don't know the man. Perhaps he has good contacts in the building trade. Either way nothing that justifies an accusation of money laundering.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74 ✭✭Azizur Rahman


    If that's what an investigation turns up so be it. Now your making assumptions about wither the property was inhabitable or not fit to be mortgaged.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,765 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    that's just politics these days find a bogeyman and blame them. depressing

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    there is no basis for a criminal investigation. and I did make assumptions, reasonable ones. you on the other hand have assumed criminality unreasonably.



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