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Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

18889919394164

Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Nixons pardon being along the lines of trying not to make a scandal of the office of president, but as you say that ship has sailed long ago with Trump. I'd say they would still be keen to not actually have a president physically incarcerated at this point and would at most give him house arrest, although ideally not with that house being Mar A Lago. Maybe send him to some house in the middle of nowhere in Alaska.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Trump biggest punishment would be financial ruin and prevent him getting access to any funds.

    It might be better to do this at state level as he has friends in Supreme places.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,554 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    It seems that Rudy Giuliani should expect to be indicted on charges of interfering with Georgia's election, He has been told that he is a target of the Fulton County DA's criminal investigation and is expected to testify in Atlanta later this week. A reminder to lawyers that being lawyer to the head of the family is not a good professional choice, even when one is the AG.

    Eric Herschmann, a former Trump lawyer and legal advisor at the White House who testified at the Jan 6 hearings has been subpoenaed to appear before a federal grand jury for testimony. Eric has history for correcting other Trump staffers, incl Sidney Powell, about their facts.

    Post edited by aloyisious on


  • Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No idea what point you're trying to make. Just incoherent nonsense about a presidential pardon or something???



  • Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    Never said he "beat" Biden, what I'm saying is that Democrats can't rely on mail-in ballots or cv-19 which swung the election in their favour. Trump can rely on the 74 millions votes he got last time to win the election.



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  • Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    No, the point is that Trump can rely on the 74 million votes he got last time whereas the Democrats can't because they won't have mail-in ballots or CV-19...



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,867 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Mail-in ballots A) still exist and B) are perfectly normal votes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,994 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Actually you're wrong, not a chance that the 74 million who voted for him last time will vote for him this time. If he runs he gets 50 million tops.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,867 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The Republicans could run a Hitler themed inanimate carbon rod and get over 50M votes, let's not be silly here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,554 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Several points:

    The FBI didn't hand any election victory to Trump - more likely to the GOP - over the longer term way past the term of the 46th and maybe the 47th.

    Federal Jail-time and Trump won't sit well together. Ref my mention of a pardon for Trump, that will be needed if Garland sticks to his guns, targets Trump by way of criminal proceedings and gets him on the stand. There've been a few more deaths on the street amongst his followers, which won't sit well with law and order fans. The GOP will quietly go about ensuring the blame falls on him to save the party's ass from further damage by him, even if the Dems keep the house and the presidency.

    Trump rolled out his dead-in-the-water "Executive Privilege" claim over the documents, alongside another claim that he had some of his personal Lawyer/Client privileged documents in with the Govt documents the FBI took away, all in a vain attempt to get the whole lot back and keep the contents secret. As I understand it, one thing US law makes clear about declassified documents and that is that anyone who has them can publish the contents to the world without fear of legal consequences, letting the world know what Trump had secretly stored away in his home.

    I've been wondering whom the FBI informant is in Trump's Mar-A-Lago home, whether it's one person or two and whether they are more committed to the rule of law than Trump is, for professional reasons. I was surprised to hear one of Trump's lawyers penned a letter to the Archives people saying there were no more documents in Trumps home, only for a knowledgeable person to contact the FBI, tell it about the extra stored-away documents, contradicting Trump's lawyer.



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  • Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not to the same extent and not with such loose controls.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,554 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Covid-19 was and is an equal-opportunity disease, not something which expressly targetted GOP voters alone, leaving Dem voters untouched on the voting queues. As for mail-in ballots, they are important to both parties as they have voters working and serving abroad.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    One aspect of USA elections - they do count the votes - all of them.

    No matter what the result, they continue counting - with one exception, Florida in 2000 - wrongly. That was at the explicit instruction of the US Supreme Court where the counting had descended into a complete circus.

    With Biden, the count continued, and continued, in tight swing states - despite numerous attempts by the GOP to stop any chance that those swing states could return for Biden. In the end, Biden won both the popular vote and the EC vote. There was no electoral fraud, and no US court has found any, despite many, many, attempts to show fraud.

    At least, the only fraud that came to light was a phone call from Trump to get an electoral returning officer to find a few thousand votes for him. Most recounts found no significant errors.

    However, gerrymandering is rife - particularly by the GOP.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,021 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Trump has done nothing to motivate swing voters to vote for him, if anything he's alienated some, so to say he'll get the same amount of votes as he did in 2020 is aspirational at best



  • Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Two basic questions which we still have no answers for:

    1: What we’re they looking for?

    2: What did they find?

    So far we’ve got some weak nerdy answer about some unreturned library books.



  • Posts: 821 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Remember when Democrats said that Dick Cheney stole the 2000 election? How is he now -- eh, forget it.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,253 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    ##Mod Note##

    Just a reminder to all , this is the Politic Forum and not After Hours/CA.

    There is an expectation of a higher standard of response here.

    Glib one -liners and attempted put-downs are not acceptable here.

    Up the standards please.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,634 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    We do have answers.

    1. They were looking for the classified records that Trump removed from the White House and stored in an unsecure location in a publicly accessible building
    2. They found Top Secret documents and documents that were even marked as Sensitive Compartmented Information which has very specific and formal access requirements. The definition of Top secret is information that is likely to cause Exceptionally Grave harm to US interests if it falls into the wrong hands.

    Nothing about library books

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,567 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    And to put the Sensitive Compartmented in context it is usually not even allowed to be removed from the room it's read by said person in the first place. Then of course we have the standard objection from the Republicans "But Obama..." except of course it turned to be a lie that the national archive confirmed was not true that Obama brought with him 33 million documents etc. Hence Trump brought secret documents with him that were to be sent back to the National Archive as per American law (and no being a president does not allow you to ignore that); he was prompted multiple times to do so and sent some back and then claimed everything was sent back in writing by his lawyers which turned out to be a lie. But yes; it's all about unreturned library books and not about him breaking multiple laws (which he has no way to override by being President to do so; nor have any powers after he's no longer president to keep on to said documents).



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,032 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    1. Classified documents
    2. Classified documents.


    Come on now, I am not sure why you are being purposely obtuse here. The warrant clearly stated what they were searching for and the receipt what they found. Instead of being obtuse, why don't you make the point you want to make?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    They went looking for classified documents, knew exactly where they were kept, identified them as classified, retrieved them and gave a receipt for them.

    Some (most) of the classified documents are so sensitive that they are listed as 'boxes' on the receipt - as to list them would be to identify them.

    They are definitely not unreturned library books.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,554 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    I found that the US National Archives and Records Administration [NARA] is the agency responsible for the administration of all records of the US Govt and this includes all the US Presidential Libraries, including the Trump Presidential Library. As it's the agency which has been at the front, though very quietly, of the issue Private Citizen Trump has with his desire to retain possession of US Govt records at his private home instead of letting NARA do its job, its worth keyboarding on the net about NARA. If the Admins OK it, I'd like to post links to NARA and the Trump library it administers. The link also has a direct contact with The Trump library, incl details on how to contact him. https://www.trumplibrary.gov/about-us/about-national-archives-and-presidential-libraries.

    Post edited by aloyisious on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,439 ✭✭✭amandstu


    They were suggesting on CNN last night that Trump may be found correct in that if he declassified those documents in his own "mind" then they would actually be declassified. (and might win on that count if it went to the SC)


    If so ,how would that affect his legal jeopardy overall if Garland goes to court over this?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    As in the whole "article two" blather Trump constantly shouted about may yet come into play? Surely it wouldn't count after your term(s) ended? And wouldn't that then put the onus on Trump to publicise the documents if they were no longer classified?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,730 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Is there a link? I would be incredibly surprised at CNN if they suggested that tbh.

    It doesn’t actually matter if he considers them declassified or not. The documents in question look to have been wilfully retained so he’d still be on the hook for it.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,253 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    And there are certain documents that even the President can't just "declassify" on a whim as well.

    And even if declassified they would still be subject to laws around handling and storage - "Declassified" doesn't mean they can be put out on Facebook or something



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,730 ✭✭✭McFly85


    Yup, and I’m pretty sure when documents are going to be declassified they still have to go through a review process to redact any sensitive information prior to being made available.

    Why anyone would think it’s perfectly ok for someone leaving their job to take confidential information and store it in his house beggars belief.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Not just that, but to basically claim the President can call "dibs" on any documents he likes the look of, and the government has to lump it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,439 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Sorry I can't find that discussion on youtube ,but it was last night and I am fairly sure it was Erin Burnett with two legal guys ,one of whom was Elie Honig.

    Erin Burnett was surprised at their opinion as she thought you would need a process to formalize the reclassification but both those guys thought that if it went to SC Trump was likely to win.

    I understand that that narrowish point might not get him off the hook(s) but it was disappointing nonetheless.


    It occurs to me that if he does not actually know what is in the documents (quite likely in my view) he may gave a hard time giving a reasonable explanation for wanting to declassify them in the first place)


    He might have to choose between his palette of plausible lies and it could be that if he doesn't use a particular lie at the right time it might be buried under the subsequent lie :)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,730 ✭✭✭McFly85


    I actually think his best chance is pleading ignorance. Just keep repeating we gave back everything and throw some poor member of staff under the bus. I’m not even sure that would help him as it’s probably still his responsibility, but it sounds more reasonable then “I declassified these without mentioning it to anyone”, or “I’m allowed to take whatever I want”.

    However, that may land him even even hotter water, depending on what fingerprints are on them.



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