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FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Cool story.

    Absolutely astounding level of engagement. Why does every little thing need to be teased out to the nth degree with you? It's so boring at this stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,681 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    This why I think SF-FF has to happen it will be more likely to be some form of confidence and supply than full coalition. This would not be due primarily to a personal antpiathy to SF within FF, at a leadership level anyway, (I suspect even in Martin's case that was mostly hot air) but to a recognition that getting tied too closely to SF in the public mind would be an electoral disaster for the party.

    Not sure if it was you I quoted this to before but

    While some party members expressed concerns about Sinn Féin’s policies, almost every Fianna Fáil TD who responded to queries from The Irish Times expressed a willingness to sit down with Sinn Féin after the next election.

    So while there would certainly be a lot of unease within FF about a deal with SF I don't see it leading to a schism



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭nigeldaniel


    Well, last week was not that bad for the government and this week has started off well enough. Not sure I like all those feelers been put out by FF about a coalition with Sf. That would see FF's party members walking out of the party on doves. They simply would not have it. Such a government would not last 6 months.

    I wish too that FG would stop banging on about Brexit. Time to grab that nettle and get on with it. When a new PM is in 'no10' it will be necessary to start a line of communication with them that does not start with a long drawn-out tale of woe.

    Dan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,071 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    It's like you exist in an alternative universe where your posts are not confusing, rambling and badly put together to make whatever point you are trying to make.

    OK, so there is little to no corruption in Ireland, is that your main point here?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,071 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Why? Because I am genuinely baffled at the type of 'debate' we have here.

    Again, what is the blatant example of corruption we are talking about here?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,071 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I cannot see SF getting into government without FF, there is simply not enough centre-left and left wing votes out there for them to

    a) get an overall majority

    b) go into government with other left wing parties.


    Oddly many in FF would be happy to go in with SF and more oddly FG would be delighted for it to happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,730 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Of course a SF/FF will happen.

    Only the naive are fooled by the moral posturing. We saw Michael was willing (Yes the great moraliser himself) on the night he thought he had more seats.

    The goal is to maintain the power swap, but if that is not doable FF will coalesce for power, it's in their DNA.

    FG will go after the vote that hates the idea of SF ever being in power, that will sustain them for a while but may be a fatal choice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,201 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Do you honestly not see how utterly preposterous your badgering looks, insults, deflections, jibes, innuendo don't change what you've said Marko, it's utterly bizzare you want to keep this up, actually extraordinary & becoming increasingly embarrassing for you, I'll save that latest post for posterity, Gosh, please move on, your going around in circles.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,071 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I am just trying to cut through the waffle to get to your core point of view.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,201 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,681 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Oddly many in FF would be happy to go in with SF

    The more unreconstructed members maybe. I suspect the wiser heads in FF realise that while propping up an SF-led government might be 'in the national interest' it would not do FF itself any favours. IMO what Jim O'Callaghan said after the last election still holds:

    “My own view is going in with Fine Gael we would be in trouble and going in with Sinn Féin we would be in severe trouble.”




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,982 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Ah stop, 10 years to investigate the siteserv sale deal and Anglo. Beggars belief.

    I think they should have been investigating the entire Irish Water superquango setup. There was ample evidence of shady dealings. Cronyism and Corruption galore.

    For example...

    Jerry Grant took over from Tierney at Irish Water. Grant was managing director of RPS from 2002 until 2012 before he joined Irish Water. Tierney was Dublin City Manager from 2006 to 2013. RPS advised DCC on the Poolbeg incinerator project which cost the state almost €100million with more than €30million going to RPS even though the original contract was for €8.3million. Nice. The EU found that his contract did not conform with EU law!! How did he get Irish Water gig when he failed so badly in DCC on Poolbeg?

    Look at John Tierney's pension. When he joined Irish Water he made a deal that his pension (470,000) was payable as soon as his contract ended. In DCC he wasnt entitled to his pension until 60. He left Irish Water after 3 years aged 57. The special deal was signed off by Hogan. Lessons were promised at the time.

    I could go on. All the contracts should be looked at.

    Irish Water will spend nearly €86 million on consultants, contractors and legal advice (thejournal.ie)

    Irish Water will spend nearly €86 million on consultants, contractors and legal advice.

    IRISH WATER WILL spend just under €86 million on consultants, contractors and legal advice as part of an overall budget of up to €180 million to establish itself, the Oireachtas Environment Committee heard today.

    Marko, please adjust your blindfold. More later on expenses and IW bonuses.

    ----

    "A glorious, god-awful mess has been made of Irish Water. We've ended up with a system now that no rational person would have invented if they had sat down to put this kind of system together. The hope must be that it will work lamely until some sort of coherent system is put in place."

    Alan Dukes 2015.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,982 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I cannot find the Business Post article that covered this in great detail. Not the first time either.

    Thousands of New Apartments At Risk Due To Water and Power Shortages | www.98fm.com

    lans for over 3 thousand apartments in Ringsend are in jeopardy following utility delays.

    Construction at the former Glass Bottle site has been halted due to water and electricity shortages, as reported in the Business Post.

    According to Irish Water, it could take six years for a water pumping station to be installed in the area.

    Phase two of the development will also be delayed-because of energy capacity constraints, and it remains unclear when ESB can build the required infrastructure to supply power to the new homes.

    ----------

    Housing Plan...yeah right.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,071 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I could go on. All the contracts should be looked at.

    Irish Water will spend nearly €86 million on consultants, contractors and legal advice (thejournal.ie)

    Irish Water will spend nearly €86 million on consultants, contractors and legal advice.

    IRISH WATER WILL spend just under €86 million on consultants, contractors and legal advice as part of an overall budget of up to €180 million to establish itself, the Oireachtas Environment Committee heard today.

    Marko, please adjust your blindfold. More later on expenses and IW bonuses.


    Are you alleging corruption here or just poor governance?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Facts. These things happened. Or are you claiming it was orchestrated? Next you'll be saying DP is kept because its a great earner for the for profits running some of the centers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,982 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    With Irish Water setup? Corruption. 100%. With a good dollop of Cronyism. Nice baiting though 😂

    You?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,582 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    He is talking about hotels which are part of the hospitality sector. If you can't see what is actually happening in front of you, why do what Trump does and spout it must be conspiracy theories.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Ah stop, 10 years to investigate the siteserv sale deal and Anglo. Beggars belief.

    7 actually. It wasn't set up until 2015 but quite a while anyway. There is commentary that he had problems getting details from some of those overseas. We'll see in the report I suppose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,132 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    IW was just plain stupidity in the main and Hogan's pig-headed determination to get it done. The concept is sound but we should have spent most of the last decade putting it in place slowly but properly. He had it set up in the most expensive, rapid way with the cost of an extra 2,500 council workers tacked on to its payroll till 2024. He got a job in Europe as a result, very much a relief for everyone, one he somehow contrived to lose as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    Off the top of my head, putting a party driver on the board of IW. Creating an envoy post for someone. Passing a confidential government negotiation document to a pal. Stuffing the planning board with cronies, gifting a supreme court position to a party hack. These would be the kind of thing that puts a party/government's reputation in a bad light.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,071 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Facts. These things happened.

    What exactly happened, because you listed in story form some nice anecdotes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,071 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    With Irish Water setup? Corruption. 100%. With a good dollop of Cronyism. Nice baiting though 😂

    Where was the corruption? Show it to me, with evidence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,071 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    He is talking about hotels which are part of the hospitality sector.

    No, he is talking about hotels being sold off to others, and somehow this is corrupt... and he offers no proof or explanation on why he thinks its corrupt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    People bought up struggling hotels. Then the hotels received steady income being chosen by the state to house refugees. Facts.

    Why would someone buy a struggling hotel? Where the government not actively tendering to these hotels before they were sold? Seems to me quite good fortune to buy a struggling hotel only to be picked for a lucrative steady income.

    Same thing happened with siteserv. Sold by the state at a loss. Then the state awards it a contract.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,071 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    People bought up struggling hotels.


    Then the hotels received steady income being chosen by the state to house refugees. Facts.

    You have to prove the missing link here. That these people who bought the hotels did so because they had a backroom deal with the government/department/politician in the know who had the influence to steer refugees their way. At the moment there are ZERO facts that this is the case...

    It's an onus for you to prove this missing link.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,071 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    People see conspiracy and corruption everywhere... but in reality IW was mostly down to incompetence.

    Don't forget it was Labour who mandated that all council workers who worked on water schemes be hired by IW, thus making a bloated mess of things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,582 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    You mentioned corruption not Dempo who just said it was suspicious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,982 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Unfortunately (for you) they wont let me investigate and anyway I think they deleted a lot of minutes 😂

    The setup was handy in terms of governance and oversight. Didn't Tierney refuse to answer questions on it...

    Troubled water: Matter of time before Irish Water is submerged in another major crisis (irishexaminer.com)

    Born under a cloud of opprobrium back in 2013, amid accusations of squandered State funds during its establishment and the almighty row over water charges, it was intended to revitalise the country’s crumbling water infrastructure. The utility is neither fish nor fowl; it’s run on a commercial basis, as a subsidiary of Ervia, but, since it can’t collect water charges from households, it’s publicly funded.

    Despite the public funding — to the tune of €1.4bn in 2021 — the utility is exempt from audit by the Comptroller and Auditor General, the State’s accountant, with private consultants Deloitte instead doing the honours since 2014. More recently, some of the strains of that particular public/private contradiction have begun to show.

    There are no records of some meetings Phil Hogan had about Irish Water (thejournal.ie)

    NO RECORDS OF what was said during two meetings between Phil Hogan and Bord Gáis over Irish Water in the summer of 2012 exist, it has emerged.

    RTÉ’s This Week programme reported yesterday that there are significant gaps in information about what was discussed between Bord Gáis and the Department of Environment in the first six months of the roll out of Irish Water.

    When controversy arose over the new semi-state’s spend on consultants earlier this year Hogan told reporters on 15 January that he was not specifically aware of how much was spent on consultants.

    Just when Siteserv was being investigated (after they won the metering contract)

    NEW: Transcript Proves Hogan Misled Oireachtas on Set-up Costs of Irish Water (fiannafail.ie)

    Fianna Fáil Environment Spokesperson Barry Cowen has provided evidence to the Dáil that the Environment Minister Phil Hogan misled the Oireachtas about the set-up costs of Irish Water.

    Deputy Cowen has provided a transcript from the Oireachtas Environment Committee in November 2012, showing Minister Hogan outlining set-up costs for Irish Water of €10 million. This came three months after we now know that the Economic Management Council had secretly approved funding of €180 million to set up Irish Water.

    Deputy Cowen Explained, “Either Minister Hogan deliberately lied about how much taxpayers’ money was being spent on setting up Irish Water, or he accidentally gave a gross underestimation to the Oireachtas Environment Committee in November 2012. Either way, we now know as a result of yesterday’s PAC meeting that when Minister Hogan publicly stated that the cost would be €10 million, he knew that €180 million had already been committed three months previously.

    -----------------------

    And the best part is that FG wanted to privatise our precious water!

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,071 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Ah, come. We know what the score is here.

    Its like the saying:

    "I didn't call your mother a whore, but just that she sleeps with people... for money."

    Feigning ignorance on what was implied won't fool ol' Marko.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,071 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    So no actual evidence of corruption then.

    Thanks for confirming the obvious.


    Oh, by the way, suspicions and beliefs are not the same things as proof.



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