Ways to hit the 25% 2030 target.

lalababa · 06-08-2022 06:02PM #1

I can't easily find what are the main (and in what order of magnitude ) causes of agri emmisions . It goes abit like this.

1 . Belching and farting of bovines and I presume ovines and pigs.

2. Something about fertiliser.

3. Something about machinery emmisions.

4. Emmisions from animal waste storage.

AND ways to reduce agri emmisions.

1. Food additives (Something about seaweed)

2. Feed alternatives..?

3. Rotational grazing..?

4. Covering slurry/dung heaps..?

5. Might tie in with 4....biodigesters.

6. Decrease in fertiliser usage.

7. Decrease in animal numbers.

Please feel free to add some more.

I reckon it will be a incentified major decrease in numbers and fertiliser. And a big push towards extensive/organic farming.

lalababa · 06-08-2022 06:05PM

Ps I don't like this idea of slaughtering everything at 24 months as afaic it would lead to intensive rather than extensive practices.

TalkingBull · 06-08-2022 08:10PM

Will this be a 25% reduction in stocking rate decided by , say, an average LU/Ha over previous x number of years?

Or, decided by land type, location, divide up the country in regions with a target LU/Ha farms can work towards?

If your currently lowly stocked, how would that affect your numbers in the future?,

what is the going rate for a CarbonCredit/Ha/year on the pan-Eu credit market? (i.e my 25% will be a tradable commodity no? :P)

lalababa · 06-08-2022 08:40PM

Sure nobody knows atm I'd say. There will have to be a decrease in animal numbers.

There will have to be money (ie schemes) involved.

A big uptake in forestry schemes would likely bare the brunt of things. Followed by paid schemes to drop units/ha , fertiliser application. Maybe schemes for dry housing. (Is it better than slats for gases?)

I wouldn't say lowly stocked farms would be disadvantaged. (Prehaps even rewarded) Rather highly stocked ones, and I'm sure they'd be compensated through schemes.

Tis all pie in de sky atm..untI'll we hear what's gonna be done.

But watch out for the different reps and lobby groups comming up with stuff that screws the small or disadvanted western farmers. Such as the 24 month slughter idea.

06-08-2022 08:45PM

Keeping stock outside on grass and moving for as long as possible has to be right up there top of the list.

Grassland management and soil management has to improve big time.

I see it all to often 10 or 20 cattle in a big open field over grazing plants for weeks.

Danzy · 06-08-2022 09:22PM

The plan seems to be very intensive and larger scale for some and balance it out with a lot more low stocked, more organic etc

lalababa · 06-08-2022 10:21PM

I've just been looking into the seaweed additive area, and some results seem to be very good. Both for reducing methane emmisions and also increasing weight gain..although I did read about a decrease in milk in one study.

If production and processing of seaweed in Ireland can be ramped up whilst not degrading the marine environment we may be onto a winner.

Then compulsory/or incentives to feed all or most of animals a seaweed supplement would make a big dent. I've read that as little as 30g/day has the desired effect.

jaymla627 · 06-08-2022 11:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119439046#Comment_119439046

https://www.mayonews.ie/comment-opinion/de-facto/30009-seaweed-another-natural-resource-sellout

it’s a gas country we live in all the same

ruwithme · 06-08-2022 11:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119438816#Comment_119438816

Would be my reading of it too, factory type large scale farms will remain as are, but lots of compliance & regs for them too remain, they will have clever people working for them to be able to continue.

Smaller farms won't have that to call on as above, any man without a successor will soon get fed up of additional compliance & regs & goal posts maybe changing, so this is where i see reductions in dairying & larger suckler family farms.

Gant21 · 06-08-2022 11:55PM

I’m going vegetarian, wafer thin ham.

_Brian · 07-08-2022 12:08PM

Don’t think anything will satisfy the backers of this push except a herd reduction.

this isn’t really about climate. It’s about food supplies and production. Moving people away from meat to substitutes manufactured in warehouses in industrial estates, it panders to the vegans and moves

food production to the bill gates of the world so they can control that. Control Tue food and you control the people, that’s why farmers are so dangerous.

lalababa · 07-08-2022 06:18PM

If ye could keep to the topic in the op..ie how the 25% is going to be achieved...that would be great. We don't really want to fly off in wild tangents.

I quickly googled whether dry bedding (farmyard manure) gave off less emmisions than slurry. And it seems yes it does both in situ in the shed and whilst and after being spread. By how much I don't know. If anybody knows more (or anything 🙂) about it please post.

So one way to go would be any new sheds being solid floor sheds?

wrangler · 07-08-2022 07:14PM

I was talking to the guy from pruex in the welsh show, he has an interesting story to tell about using Clay derived bacteria against disease in straw bedded shed, he claims it even dries the bedding.

It even is used in the outdoor calving paddocks in some of the big suckler farms in Scotland.

I think razor 8 tried it a couple years ago, wonder how he got on.

If it dried the bedding it'd definitely give off less emissions, (just to get back to topic) and improve foot health in sheep

Say my name · 07-08-2022 11:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119442210#Comment_119442210

I'll save ya.😁

You're not off the wall completely with that post.

http://sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170330190304.htm

There's instruments out now where you can place them over the soil and it can tell if you have methane eating microbes or methane making microbes.

We haven't even gotten to the page yet to ask what some pasture soil are like in Ireland. Knowing researchers here though they'd pick a soil destroyed by pesticides, herbicides and previous tillage...test and proclaim no methane eating microbes here.

07-08-2022 11:58PM

Would recommend looking into holistic management by Allan Savoury.

Simple YouTube videos.

The more grass you grow, the more carbon you pull from the sky and store in the soil where it belongs.

Sheep breeder · 08-08-2022 12:07AM

To cut back by 25%, do away with derogation and level the playing pitch, all farms the same level. Will be a quick way of bringing the dairy herd down.

tabby aspreme · 08-08-2022 12:18AM

Can't see an increase in forestry any time soon, it at it's lowest since the 1940's, extra red tape has it ruined

Birdnuts · 08-08-2022 12:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119443241#Comment_119443241

Outdated forestry policies has it ruined by going down the road of block planting non-native spruce on peat rich soils which made no sense from a climate or biodiversity point of view - alot of the delays also caused by the likes of Coillte flooding the system with substandard applications in large tranches that required extra staff with compliance knowledge in Ecology, water quality etc. Recent figures from the EPA also show outdated forestry practices are putting alot of pressure on water quality and fish habitat in a growing number of catchments and is a signficant factor in the collapse over the last 30 years in the number of "pristine" rated lakes/rivers, especially on upland peat soils. We really should be looking at an agro forestry model that combines small and linear plots with conventional farming as is practiced in many parts of the EU. Good article below covering these issues

https://www.noteworthy.ie/spruced-up-pt1-5241271-Oct2020

Siamsa Sessions · 08-08-2022 11:33AM

Genuine question: will this 25% notional figure slowly fade when the current Government is out of office and the Greens are on 3-4% for another few elections?

I know it's "legally binding" but what does that mean in reality? The Government was apparently legally bound to take €13bn in uncollected tax revenue from Apple, but first it challenged this decision in Europe and then it delayed everything, dragging its feet as the most preferred mode of travel. I haven't checked, but as far as I can tell, the issue has since fallen off the agenda. Did we ever get the €13bn? Will we ever get it? Who knows. The media move on and life continues.

I might wish this wasn't the case, but the Government will be very slow to reduce food exports and the related jobs/revenue the sector generates. They might have announced 25% last week, but you can tell their heart isn't in it. If it was, there'd be more fanfare around it and some sort of realistic plan would be at least on paper. LESS, methane additives, MACC, etc. are fiddling around the edges, and very unlikely to have any real effect.

Farmers, as ever, are on their own. If you're not out on a limb with high stocking rates (having followed Teagasc/Government policy!), then I don't see any big schemes/policies coming from Government to rock the boat and impact the majority of farmers in Ireland. Sucklers numbers are dropping naturally, as are some of the oul lads who own them. The only challenge for the Government is make sure water quality doesn't deteriorate due to nitrates. They can't hide from those figures in the same way they can fudge emissions and GHGs.

We'll keep doing what we're doing (plenty great examples above from several posters) and keep an eye on emerging science (more examples above), but I won't be loosing any sleep about 24.5% or 25.4% in 2030.

DBK1 · 08-08-2022 01:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444246#Comment_119444246

Fully in agreement with this. I wouldn’t be too worried at all about it. The numbers in a lot of places are dropping naturally anyway.

I was talking with a neighbour a few weeks back and we went all around the circle of the neighbouring farms around ours. There’ll be an awful lot of land up for sale in the next 20 years I’d say. As we went around the different farmers there’s not too many with an heir to the throne. I’m sure if a lot of people here do the same around your own farms you’ll get the same results. Or try and count the amount of full time farmers you know in their 20’s or 30’s, I doubt you’ll run out of fingers counting them!

It’s the same with turf cutting, all a big fuss about nothing really. In 20 or 30 years time there’ll be very few houses at turf anyway as the younger generations have no interest in being on the bog, it’s much handier just pay for the oil no matter what the cost and get it delivered!

wrangler · 08-08-2022 01:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444648#Comment_119444648

People are very well off now, I reguaily meet a thirteen year old when I'm getting the paper on a sunday morning. He's buying his cup of coffee.

I reckon while that's going on there's no loss on anyone yet

08-08-2022 01:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444246#Comment_119444246

Brilliant post sir

Siamsa Sessions · 08-08-2022 01:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444784#Comment_119444784

You're far too kind. It's only an opinion really.

I work in data science off-farm and see various "models" for all sorts on a daily basis. Trying to estimate emissions given the current technologies and the number of variables involved is nothing more than finger-in-the-air stuff. I'd be afraid to say this out loud coz I'd be labelled a climate denier (I'm not). Putting simple numbers like 25% on the natural world makes no sense in scientific terms, but it's used as shorthand, or a metaphor, in policy documents and in the media.

Arguing over percentages when there is genuine uncertainty around the methodology means the science can't be proven. And that's before you look at the vested interests (on all sides) who can generate/manipulate data to back up whatever their beliefs are.

minerleague · 08-08-2022 01:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444246#Comment_119444246

Exactly, like the big corporations " buying" carbon credits and working away like before

monseiur · 08-08-2022 02:32PM

According to a report in one newapaper yesterday, Ireland will have to reduce cattle numbers by over 1.4 million head by 2030......and another article in the same paper reported that Brazil plans to increase it's cattle herd population by 30 million head by 2030 Enough said. It proves yet again that the lunatics have taken over the asylum and will be in charge for the forseeable future - a future that looks very bleak indeed not just for this country but for the whole western world.

08-08-2022 02:43PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445241#Comment_119445241

And I wonder how many millions of litres of diesel those cargo ships will use every day to bring meat from one side of the world to the other.

when the exact same product can be raised here in far better conditions and to far better standards on grassland and sold locally.

wrangler · 08-08-2022 03:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445317#Comment_119445317

I hear those cargo ships are very efficient, I remember a farmer saying it was cheaper to get the grain to Ireland than from from the port to his place

bogman_bass · 08-08-2022 04:37PM

Yeah shipping is one one of the lowest emissions link in the chain

plus when we export 90% of our beef it doesn’t come across as very credible to complain about shipping beef.

Birdnuts · 08-08-2022 04:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445241#Comment_119445241

Those plans are under the current scumbag of a President there who has allowed the ranching and timber mafia free reign across the Amazon and native lands since 2019- hopefully the election this autumn will see him out of office(his is currently well behind in polls) with the leading candidate having a solid record of reigning in deforestation and the elements behind it his last term in office. The US, Norway etc. has also offered the country tens of billions of Dollars in cash if they halt deforestation. Also I can see the EU coming under increasing pressure to ditch Mercosur with even most of the German Government now against it. Interestingly a number of Blueshirt MEP's from here continue to support that rotten deal in the EU parliament - something for farmers here to think about at the next election......

08-08-2022 10:42PM

Would changing the livestock unit value of a calf be positive? Just for schemes.

AFAIK, once a lamb hit's the ground it's the same 0.15 value as a ewe. A donkey foal same as an adult LU value. But a calf vs 2 year old bovine is different.

Nermal · 09-08-2022 12:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444246#Comment_119444246

The 'legally binding' nature of the targets will be used by environmental pressure groups in lawsuits to prevent new infrastructure, renewals or grants of licences of all types - basically to choke off economic activity they don't like.

Progress towards the targets will be achieved in a 'negative' fashion via the courts, rather than 'positively' by unpopular government action. Politicians are answerable to the people, but judges are not.

Ways to hit the 25% 2030 target.

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