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Cash is important

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12467…11

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    #92
    Marcos
    Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭Marcos


    So you can't rebut the statement that phasing out cash and introducing CBDC gives others control over what, where and when you buy stuff? OK then.


    PS Good username btw.

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



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    #93
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    You talking to me?



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    #94
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,153 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418664#Comment_119418664

    how exactly would they do that? they would have to be linked into every retailers till system. Why would a retailer agree to that?



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    #95
    NSAman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,388 ✭✭✭NSAman


    Blindly allowing any government/authoritarian control over you is the worst thing in the world. Cashless society may seem like the correct way to go for many. Ease of use, the perceived “safety” of not carrying cash.

    of course, governments want control of the money individuals have. The ability to look at your income, the ability to see what you have. All it takes is a few laws to come in, social scores? Terrorism laws on finance? That money you HAD in your account could easily evaporate.

    not going to happen? (You say) .. Canada, China, prime examples of the route this is going.



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    #96
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    another tricky one, but you can understand why some say its critical to maintain a level of cash in circulation, as an entirely digital supply could potentially be easier to control by whoever wants to control it, and for whatever purposes they wish to do so for, again, another reasons why i advocate for public banks, but in saying that, heavily digitalised countries seem to work very well, but there is very good institutional confidence in these countries, which cant be said here in ireland....



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    #97
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    What's wrong with having both cash and cashless? The status quo works well for everyone. We have choice.



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    #98
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,166 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418640#Comment_119418640

    No he did not. It may be extreme examples but the video acknowledges that.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #99
    foxsake
    Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭foxsake


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418688#Comment_119418688

    they wouldn't - they'd only be needed to linked the system. if the CBDC was the only currency (cash was dead) then the retailer would have to upgrade their terminals to use the money system. would require a rollout of sorts but nothing terribly difficult.

    for example - with the barcode system it's very easy to know what somebody would buy and limit that - if that is your desire. which I believe it would be .

    what do you think the use of programmable money (see smart contracts with some crypto would be similar idea) would be if not to limit a persons usage to whatever parameters was deemed acceptable.



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    #100
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,166 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418823#Comment_119418823

    There is no problem. However there is an active push to force people away from cash. AIB's attempt to remove cash from 70+ banks would have tremendous issues for small businesses and the general public.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #101
    Gant21
    Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Gant21


    What will drug dealers do if cash goes?



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    #102
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,153 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418834#Comment_119418834

    not terribly difficult? have you much experience in enterprise IT? bearing in mind it would have to be linked to the IT of EVERY shop in order to be effective.



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    #103
    downtheroad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418823#Comment_119418823

    If we are to have cash and cashless then every single retailer in the country should be obliged to take both.

    How many taxis have you asked do you take card and get told no? Thankfully the NTA are putting a stop to this.



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    #104
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418862#Comment_119418862

    Use illegal currencies. Use stolen bank accounts to move money through.



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    #105
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418831#Comment_119418831

    He literally made them up and is using them as examples of things of which we should be afraid. There is no ambiguity about this, it's fear-mongering 101.

    If he didn't make them up, then please provide examples of each of the following happening somewhere else in the world:

    • your card is only valid for transactions in a 2km radius of your home.
    • they say that you can only buy a small amount of certain foods like meat, or decide that people should eat meat substitutes like insects instead.
    • people are controlled in what they are allowed to buy because of backhanders and lobbying.
    • they decide that alcohol should be rationed, so you are only allowed to buy a sixpack, a naggin of spirits or one bottle of wine a month as anything more is unhealthy

    The whole anti-cashless movement is based around the slippery slope logical fallacy.



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    #106
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,805 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418688#Comment_119418688

    It doesnt need to be linked into every till at all.

    Right now almost all card payments use Visa or Mastercard payment processing systems - if they want to blacklist you or a retailer or some combination they can. Moving to cashless just eliminates the alternative.



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    #107
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,153 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418948#Comment_119418948

    if it isn't linked to the till how do you stop people buying specific products?



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    #108
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418896#Comment_119418896

    What's an illegal currency?

    Why would one drug dealer accept payment for a shipment of drugs in a currency that is literally useless to them? I mean, what would happen, in your opinion, if Deco rocks up at Anto's flat and says "you know that 20 grand I owe you?........well, here's 50,000 in D€co-bucks instead, all the lads are using them"?



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    #109
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,805 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418952#Comment_119418952

    Ah I see - my bad.

    Yes it'd need linked to till for places like supermarkets, all that takes is someone like an Eamon Ryan to legislate that it has to be done. "For the good of the climate"

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418956#Comment_119418956

    We already have "illegal currencies" like bitcoin and other crypto. All it takes is one person to offer exchanges of currency X to currency Y and it can be used for illegal activities.



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    #110
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418956#Comment_119418956

    Are you the only one who thinks drug dealers will start carrying around card payment machines or accepting electronic transfers for drugs into their AIB account?

    Give your head a wobble. If cash is withdrawn for society, Dealers will find methods to receive illicit payments, crypto would seem to be the obvious one at the moment as it is reputedly the currency of choice for drugs/arms dealers.



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    #111
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]



    We already have "illegal currencies" like bitcoin and other crypto. All it takes is one person to offer exchanges of currency X to currency Y and it can be used for illegal activities.

    What? None of what you said makes any sense and you didn't address any of the points or questions I asked.

    Bitcoin and crypto aren't illegal.

    And no, it doesn't take one person to offer exchanges in order for it to a) exist and b) encourage illegal activity to take place. Illegal activity takes place already without any exchanges. My point was that BOTH the seller and the purchaser have to agree on the currency involved or it won't work. Good luck getting drug dealers to exclusively use a payment system that only other drug dealers have agreed to use.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


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    #112
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418956#Comment_119418956

    Holding foreign currencies was illegal in the Soviet Union and punishable by 20 or 30 years in prison. People traded them anyway though they were in theory functionally worthless within the Soviet economy. So foreign currencies from CBDC-unfriendly nations (the BRICS countries?) is a possibility.

    There have already been noises about banning cryptocurrencies. In the event of a CBDC, there may be cryptocurrencies still operating which e.g. it is against the law to hold in large amounts. Or they can be amnestied for CBDC money but you aren't meant to actively trade them.

    Yes this is a highly hypothetical answer but the question was hypothetical.



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    #113
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419007#Comment_119419007

    Are you the only one who thinks drug dealers will start carrying around card payment machines or accepting electronic transfers for drugs into their AIB account?

    No, I'm not. No idea where you got that from.

    Give your head a wobble. If cash is withdrawn for society, Dealers will find methods to receive illicit payments, crypto would seem to be the obvious one at the moment as it is reputedly the currency of choice for drugs/arms dealers.

    Great. Your entire second sentence is based off an assumption in your first sentence, which was incorrect.



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    #114
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,153 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418982#Comment_119418982

    and the like of dunnes and tesco are just going to go grand, right? This thread needs to be moved to the CT forum.



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    #115
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,484 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Even with cash there's still money laundering which is big business, at a large scale you've to hide illicit earnings among real ones but either way you can still spend the cash on hand. Is a supermarket going to take whatever favoured crypto you're into.

    In a cashless society you're going to need the local tender, so how do I buy anything with my ill-gotten gains. Some random guy suddenly and seemingly for no reason transfers thousands into my account and CAB don't look twice apparently.



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    #116
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419073#Comment_119419073

    It's not just hypothetical, it's complete and utter fantasy.

    Holding foreign currencies was illegal in the Soviet Union and punishable by 20 or 30 years in prison. People traded them anyway though they were in theory functionally worthless within the Soviet economy. So foreign currencies from CBDC-unfriendly nations (the BRICS countries?) is a possibility.

    "If X happens then it MAY lead to Y, which has a POSSIBILITY of turning into Z which then means......"

    So, in order for this to happen, we need all current currencies to be declared illegal, each sovereign state to decide on their own digital currency, some of these new digital currencies to be declared illegal in other jurisdictions, and drug dealers to somehow be able to trade in this currency, undetected, despite the fact that there's no tangible, physical notes and coins.........?

    Like I said, entirely dependent upon the slippery slope logical fallacy.



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    #117
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419123#Comment_119419123

    I can't answer a purely hypothetical question without getting into hypothetical scenarios.

    The only satisfactory answer can be "I don't know, you don't know"

    I wasn't addressing you in the first place anyway so if you don't like it get lost.



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    #118
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LOL........I don't care who you're addressing, I was addressing you.

    When prompted for a response, you just blurted out a one-liner, as if that was as plain as your face and everyone should have already known it. Now, when pressed, you admit that you pulled it our of your arse and have the temerity to get snarky with the one person who called you on it.

    This is a discussion forum, if you don't want to discuss the topic, then maybe it's you who should get lost?



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    #119
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,685 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Eat $hit you waffler



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    #120
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Charming. Do you always resort to abuse when you're called out for talking sh1te?



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    #121
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,805 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419123#Comment_119419123

    That the slippery slope is a logical fallacy is itself, a logical fallacy.



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