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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,269 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    I just hope that the government falls on emissions targets, will give people the chance to vote for net zero etc etc. The reality will be a shock to the bellends running with fractional votes making all these decisions impacting the country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    If the government falls that Sinn Fein in and their only policy is point at what should be done and not providing any solutions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 644 ✭✭✭Darth Putin


    Make that 10-15 hover dams

    its output is 2000mw at 23% capacity (see wiki)

    Here is what 6000mw of wind in Ireland were doing in last 30 days (looks about 15% RANDOM capacity)

    F34E51AB-632D-418F-9DEE-4089F4AA9227.jpeg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,074 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So how long will this take to build?

    how long to get through planning application, ABP?

    Who are the investors backing this?

    What happens to the people living and working in these areas?

    How much energy can it store?

    Will it be up and running before this winter? If not well then it’s not going to help us with a gas shortage that the energy minister should have been planning for by pushing for CNG storage in tanks.



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  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It was a "proposal", nothing more and not a very realistic one at that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,074 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Grand.

    So what other concrete plan do we have in place to replace wind when the wind doesn’t blow for a couple of consecutive weeks this winter?



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Does the wind not blow for consecutive weeks in the winter?



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Disappointed to see that emissions targets are still not agreed. Whatever the content of the discussions its very likely that any demands for reducing the Agri sector target are being challenged to identify where else in the economy those reductions have to be made up.

    RTE news : Taoiseach urges agreement over emissions target





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,045 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    "He attributed the rising bills to an increase in the price of gas internationally, a dip in wind energy output, and the impact of Covid-19.

    “The price of gas has skyrocketed on international markets. Over the past four or five months, we’ve seen the price of gas go up by 200%, so it’s a huge increase and that is putting upward pressure on prices,” Cassidy said.

    “We still generate a lot of our electricity from burning gas and, to a lesser extent, coal. When the price of gas goes up, it affects the price of electricity as well,” he said.

    There’s been a lack of wind output in recent months. According to the world climate service, for example, June and July of this year was one of the least windy periods on record. That means there’s been a lack of renewable energy on the system.

    “That coupled with very expensive gas and coal prices hasn’t helped things as well because when renewable energy dips, we may need to rely on gas and fossil to generate more of our energy." https://www.thejournal.ie/energy-cost-price-rise-increase-winter-provider-swap-5556020-Sep2021/



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    France are largely nuclear so the taxpayer is picking up the large tab otherwise.


    Hard to plan for subsidies in a non nuclear energy market, that is probably one of the few advantages of nuclear.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,074 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Of course, but what plan is in place for the one or two weeks in a row when it doesn’t.

    It would be nice if you could give a straight answer on this.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What was the plan the last time it happened and do you not think they would go with the same plan if it worked fine the last time it was used?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 644 ✭✭✭Darth Putin


    46590161-5C87-4C51-8698-0D0ED451A4B9.jpeg

    “We are too car dependent in Ireland”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,243 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Ok, this makes direct comparisons between the cost of utilities across borders less straightforward. If i'm paying more for my electricity but less in tax, or if the government has decided to keep utilities high but subsidise vulnerable and low income citizens

    Or there are different economic strategies, France might want lower domestic electricity but make industry pay the market cost, or like in Ireland, make the consumer pay a levy to subsidise infrastructure that is not deemed commercially viable but have a social and policy benefit.

    The difference in electricity costs for consumers and industry varies a lot between different economies, but a huge element of these changes are policy based, rather than reflective of the costs of actually generating that electricity.

    Post edited by Akrasia on

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,589 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    If you do not want to live in darkness for the rest of your days then you are going to have to learn to suck it up and live with it as we are going to need gas to keep the lights on for many years to come. There is one alternative to all those you mention, nuclear.

    But on that it`s the same head burying in the sand of greens on exploration, while all the gas we are receiving from Norway ticks all the boxes you mention.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    The greens can be summed up in 1 word hypocrites.

    Anti nuclear but promoting the interconnect to France who guess what are nuclear

    Anti fracking but no problem taking in gas from the UK where guess what they use fracked gas..

    Really are a bunch of clowns when you think about it.

    it's not about saving the world it's about making themselves feel relevant



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 644 ✭✭✭Darth Putin


    Burn imported coal and gas as happens for majority of last 30 days as per Eirgrid as the 6000mw of wind operated on average of 15% capacity

    I even posted the shameful graph higher up from Eirgrid

    Here is what wind is doing at time of this post (f’all)

    we could install 30x wind and still not meet demand

    265809A7-B10A-484B-BE86-55EA0A931CE8.jpeg 073F633B-E16D-4FF6-B701-8B41E93896B0.jpeg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,074 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    The plan is to pick up the slack from the lack of wind by using gas or other fossil fuels.

    Would you agree with that assumption dacor?

    Now, the EU have asked us to reduce gas usage by 15%. We are one of the few countries in Europe (possibly the world- I haven’t checked this) that has no gas storage.

    This means we could potentially have a shortage of gas, because we have no gas storage to get us over the period of time when the wind isn’t blowing.

    Would you agree with that summary dacor?

    This is a direct result of a lack of foresight and action on behalf of the energy minister.

    Would you agree with that conclusion dacor?



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The plan is to pick up the slack from the lack of wind by using gas or other fossil fuels.

    Sounds about right as thats where we are in terms of energy transition

    Now, the EU have asked us to reduce gas usage by 15%. We are one of the few countries in Europe (possibly the world- I haven’t checked this) that has no gas storage.

    This means we could potentially have a shortage of gas, because we have no gas storage to get us over the period of time when the wind isn’t blowing.

    Unlikely but I guess anything is potentially possible if we're talking hypotheticals. We could potentially have a surplus of gas as there could be very high winds every day of the week.

    Again unlikely, but hypotheticals don't really need to worry about logic, thats what makes them so much fun

    This is a direct result of a lack of foresight and action on behalf of the energy minister.

    Would you agree with that conclusion dacor?

    I would not agree that the Minister should have anticipated the invasion of Ukraine by Russia and the global fallout on energy markets that would have resulted from that action. That would be outside his remit



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,589 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It makes an absolute farce of greens pushing a rolling 12 month capacity of around 30% on-shore as if it meant had we 3 times as much wind turbine generation as the 12 month rolling generation from off shore turbines then we would have close to 100% of our needs.

    Average capacity for wind, (or indeed solar or hydro), is meaningless. If you are going to get anywhere near that 100% then for a reliable supply it`s the number of turbines that will be required for the lowest days of generation, not the average.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,074 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie



    It is the ministers remit to ensure energy security for this country.


    The scenario I raise- no wind for an extended period during winter- happens last year. So not that hypothetical really is it?

    At the most basic level, seeing there is no gas storage should raise alarm bells with him, way before the invasion, especially seen as we depend on a non EU country for 70% of our gas-would you not agree?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,589 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    We burned gas. Just as we have been doing this month. Just as we did in Winter 2021 and Spring 2022. As Darth Putin has shown to not do so would require 30 times the the number of wind turbines we presently have.

    You were recently cheering on a one man and his dog protest in Galway to prevent the construction of a gas fired plant, so with you being anti gas what is your solution ?



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It is the ministers remit to ensure energy security for this country.

    Aye, hence the energy security review, which has been delayed due to the Ukraine situation and is being updated, due for release in Q3. We'll have to wait and see if it differs in what the 2020 review said

    image.png




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,483 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    That's just car ownership. As pointed out in the replies in that Reddit thread, "Distance traveled by car" is a more informative metric to use

    "16,400 km/year for Ireland; around 7,700 km/year in Italy, and on average 11,300 km/year for the EU."

    (https://www.odyssee-mure.eu/publications/efficiency-by-sector/transport/distance-travelled-by-car.html)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,045 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    You mean this plan?

    No wind 16-7-22.jpg

    I thought you cared about CO2 emissions almost as much as you do posting links you think amount to rubbing peoples noses in the activities of governments you believe will cause them grief.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,074 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So not building the CNG tanks is because of the Ukraine conflict?

    is that what your trying to say?



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    so its nothing to do with uncontrolled deforestation, particularly in Brazil and Indonesia, millions of open cooking fires that consume trillions of trees or kerosene or paraffin in Africa and Asia and S. America, unfiltered Chinese power stations that burn coal, lignite mining in Germany, millions of uncontrolled fires in Africa and Asia melting down scrap metal, vast quantities of water used to grow Khat in East Africa instead of food crops and opium in Afghanistan, scrap tyre fires in the US, unregulated scrapping of ships in Bangladesh and Pakistan, unregulated manufacture of firearms in Pakistan and the consequent damage to the local environment, unregulated dumping by millions of Indonesians, especially those who live on their own islands......yet you chose to blame the likes of me, as a child of the 70s, who has had no hand, act or part in any of the above, which is going on now???.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,074 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Not really.

    Dumb it down for the likes of me please dacor.

    Did the minister for energy decide not to build gas storage tanks (aka energy storage tanks) because of the Ukraine conflict?

    That wouldn’t make sense as he was minister long before the conflict wasn’t he?

    I would’ve thought maybe brexit would make him take a look at our energy storage reserves (which are non existent bar 90 days of oil).



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