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Mass Protest in the Netherlands by Farmers.

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Comments

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Then stop replying with stupidity. Actually make a point or don’t bother posting.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well I just checked RTE website right now and not a mention of it anywhere and ir was the same last few days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    The purpose of CAP is to produce cheap food for the plebs. It has been very successful at that. It is not for the benefit of farmers.

    It is particularly helpful for the uneducated who otherwise likely wouldn't be able to afford to feed themselves. A lucky side effect or their lack of education is that they don't feel bad or embarrassed because they don't understand that their food is being subsidised for them.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Ah, we’ll that’s me convinced. The western media is a joke because RTÉ didn’t cover a small protest in The Netherlands. /s

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    An emphatic contribution; as ever honestly how do you make the time for some folk.



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  • Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why aren't they covering it? That's the problem.

    It's most definitely big news and should be covered.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    It’s not even big news here in the Netherlands. It wasn’t a particularly big protest from what I can see. Why do you think it was so important.


    There was a journalist shot by a drug gang here last year, that was huge news here. Was that covered by RTÉ? No, because it’s not big news to Irish people.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    Why would you never agree...

    And why is it always skin deep, with you people it goes far beyond that let me tell you. Colourblind as you claim but then you yourself have ulterior motives at play. Not veiled in the slightest, you can't play the bonobo all day but the fact remains we are impinging on nobody and we will stand our ground to retain who we are.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Because we have debated this many times in the past and never agreed. That’s ok though, I respect his right to be wrong.


    I really need you to explain this fascination you have with my bonobo avatar? It’s bizarre.


    what ulterior motives do I have? I’m an open book.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Holland, like ourselves, are poisoning their land to grow food for others. I think Ireland imports roughly half the food we eat despite producing 3 or 4 times what we need.

    I'm not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of Dutch agriculture but if it's like the rest of the developed world then it's all going towards commodification and corporate-domination. I'd also hazard a guess it's small farmers getting squeezed out while mega-farms cause massive issues and pay inconsequential (for them) fines whenever they're "caught". There's a significant astro-turfing issue when it comes to agriculture alas.



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    As much as I disagree with you on many things I will compliment you on being one of the very few people who can admit being wrong sometimes. If it was one of the others I'd expect several irrelevant links and suggestions I hate people from Chad or something.



  • Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why isn't it big news there? What's more news worthy that they are covering?

    From the videos iv seen of it, it should be and it does look like a very big protest.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Because it was localised. It wasn’t that big and from what I can see it’s over.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    Bonobos are closest to man, and spend most of their time copulating. It's true you're an open book to a degree but is there an account book back there as well?



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Are you ok, this is a little unhinged.


    I genuinely can’t figure out what you’re accusing me of? I don’t have ulterior motives, and definitely don’t fetishise bonobos the way you seem to. Your responses to me are a little crazy.


    You think the bonobo avatar means something sinister. It doesn’t, except that I like them. What the hell do you think it means?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    So you’re not going to explain your point of view at all? What’s the point in joining a discussion when you’re unwilling to discuss?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats




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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,031 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    You haven’t discussed anything. You made some weird accusations and said I wasn’t worth talking to because my avatar was a bonobo. I really want to know what point you had to make.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,315 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Bonobos are closest to man.

    They're not really Bobble. They're the same distance away from us as Chimpanzees and they deviate from each other by around 0.3% genetically*. Though they are interesting as a good example of how culture and cultural politics can often inform perceptions, even science. Bonobos are a largely matriarchal great ape, who are less aggressive than chimps and use sexual contact as a way to group bond and diffuse conflict(though it's not nearly so simple). This appealed to the counterculture "hippie" and first wave feminist generation in the 60's and 70's when great ape research was really kicking off, so much was made of these traits. They were also seen as vegatarian too, which they're not.

    So the popularity of this closest to us notion springs from that background culture. If on the other hand we had the same culture as say Ancient Rome, they'd be far more interested in pushing the more aggressive, warlike, patriarchal and hierarchical Chimpanzee as "closest to us" and would relegate the Bonobos to a lesser position.

    Neandertals were seen as brutish and stupid "cavemen", even their name is the only archaic human name that has made it into common parlance as a negative. This was because they were discovered and described at the cusp of truly modern science, the new Darwinism and a large overlap of old style religion, even European superiority and racism. They upended all of the above and the religious saw them as "fallen" thrown out of Eden humans and European science had to see them as different and "not us". That stuck for a long time. Well, until genetics came along and showed we carried their DNA and they were very much "indo European" in range and pale of skin, often with mousey, even red hair. So they went from this in our reconstructions:

    Untitled Image

    To this in recent times:

    Untitled Image

    Funny that...😁

    A much more recent example of how current culture can inform perceptions in science was the discovery a couple of years ago of the burial of a woman(Altai IIRC) who was found with weapons and accessories normally found with male burials and in the literature there was debate if she was "non binary or Trans", because that's a current cultural thing. Such burials have come up before and no such hypotheses were put forward and were explained away quite differently. It's quite fascinating how such biases can be at play.

    But I digress... 😁







    *by comparison if you stand me, a native European beside a native Papuan, on archaic admixture alone I'll have up to 2%(or 4% by some measures) Neandertal DNA, he'll have less and they'll be different genes from a different population and he'll have up to 6% Denisovan DNA which I won't have at all. Stand a lad from the Congo beside the pair of us and he could quite understandably and reasonably conclude we're a pair of feckin' cavemen, because he'll have neither.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,375 ✭✭✭amacca


    Grand so! Prepare to pay a lot more for your food.

    Cost of production + a margin to make it worthwhile.

    And increases as smaller farmers get driven out of business.


    Then you can pay the price the larger factory farms eventually dictate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    A fountain as ever 🙇‍♂️ I'm neanderthal all day over that; chilling parallels couldn't have profiled myself any better thanks wibbs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    @[Deleted User] but this is what the issue is. The government wants farmers to produce less animal based protein and instead move to sustainable farming practices.



  • Posts: 30 [Deleted User]


    ...

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We should be paying more for food. The disconnect between production costs and retail costs is the very thing that is destroying smaller farms. And when you get a subsidy it makes sense to grow as cheaply as possibly. I'm not in favour of 0 subsidies but farmers (not the ones who have their fingers in the other pies) need to be careful what they wish for.

    Subsidies have people thinking it makes sense for chicken to be under €1/100g and beef not far off. In Ireland especially we're being ridiculous with expanding animal herds.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,375 ✭✭✭amacca


    I mostly agree but the problem is its difficult to see the system paying more for food until they've squeezed the life out of the producers and there are shortages.



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  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Therein lies the astroturfing issue. Like the "Right to Farm" Act in the states, supported all the way by the processors and distributors but framed as being for farmers.



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