Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

"Green" policies are destroying this country

13023033053073081119

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,262 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    My logic is that we can only control certain things and we can take a pragmatic stand against fracking but cannot control the UK gas supply

    We 'cannot use our own gas' because we have a clear strategy to focus on renewables. There is no benefit to Ireland from further Gas exploration

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,262 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Ooookay

    Do you know what happens when wet bulb temperatures exceed 35c?

    Post edited by Akrasia on

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Doesn't compute.

    Firstly where we're using gas coming from the UK which is derived from natural gas, LNG and fracked gas - then that is no argument against importing natural gas from sources outside the UK, because as is the case with the UK, we have no control of any imported gas supply. But by importing from places outside the UK we diversify our sources and provide security of supply.

    Secondly our focus on 'renewables" recognises the need to use natural gas for the period of transition to renewable energy generation. That strategy provides no rationale for excluding the use of our own sources of natural gas. But again importantly by doing so diversify our sources and provide security of supply.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,262 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Its very simple.

    Forget about gas for a moment, lets talk about human trafficking and slavery because I would hope we both agree that these are awful and should be banned

    1. Ireland and the EU have prohibitions on any companies using slavery or human trafficking within the EU.
    2. Ireland and the EU have policies that are supposed to stop companies from directly owning operations outside the EU that directly use forced labour or 'modern day slavery'
    3. Ireland and the EU should have, but do not yet have legislation to prevent EU companies from using anything that has slavery anywhere in the supply chain


    Just because we do not have 3, doesn't mean we should allow 1.

    Are we hypocrites for not allowing the local centra to hire slaves if some of the stuff in that centra was made using forced labour?

    You can argue yes, but is it better for us to not allow Centra to have slaves?

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    What's the link with high temperatures and "densely populated areas" with regard to climate change as opposed to any other type of area?

    As you said above we have can only control certain things and the Indian government seems less than willing to tackle its own emissions, then there's little we can do to change that.

    The big emitters of greenhouse gases have a major role to play in reducing /stopping climate change. Without their willingness to do so, we're all fcuked.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Oh they're no angels, that's not in any doubt, however they, and other oil companies, are utilising their offshore expertise to allow them to diversify away from oil and into wind.


    It's early days yet, everything is in relation to offshore wind, but an interesting pivot by this and other fossil fuel firms



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,262 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Wet bulb temperatures have already exceeded 35c but they did not affect densely populated areas so the death toll was low

    If the WBT goes above 35c for a prolonged time (more than a few hours) in a densely populated area, the death toll will be very very high

    People won't be able to cool down and will overheat, dehydrate and die even in the shade.

    Wet bulb temperatures above 28c will kill vulnerable people who don't have access to air conditioning, wet bulb temperatures above 35c will kill even the most healthy young adult unless they can cool down.

    https://climate.nasa.gov/ask-nasa-climate/3151/too-hot-to-handle-how-climate-change-may-make-some-places-too-hot-to-live/

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,365 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    OK now your analogy doesn't compute and you seem to be digging in desperation to try and justify your bizarre argument in support of only importing natural gas from the UK.

    Natural gas is not "slaves". To make that analogy is deeply offensive to those who have been trafficked or enslaved.

    Ireland the EU have no prohibition on imports of natural gas regardless of source

    Ireland and the EU currently have no policies to stop companies from sourcing or selling natural gas. Our gas from the UK comes from a variety of sources. If we ban fracked gas - then all imports are potentially problematic.

    Your belief that Ireland and the EU should have policies to stop the use, transport or selling of natural gas is in direct conflict with your previous position that natural gas is required for the period of transition to renewable energy generation

    If your going to agree to import anything from the UK, then you have no argument against importing it from anywhere else.

    Natural gas is natural gas regardless of where it comes from. Natural gas has been identified by the EU as essential for the period of transition to renewable energy generation. We need to divesify our sources of natural gas to ensure that.

    Post edited by Mecanudo on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    wet bulb temperatures above 28c have always been common and resulting in fatalities but the chances of getting above 35c is extremely unlikely as the more humidity and high temperatures together result in thunder storms but it think you knew that already.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Yeah I know how wet bulb works. The question is what's that got to do specifically with "densely populated areas"?.

    What you've described can happen anywhere



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,616 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Does India?

    They have shown no indication that they are prepared to do anything about it. Like all the other major emitters their priority is a cheap reliable source of energy to fuel their economies. AS I am sick and tired of pointing out to you, what we do is not going to make even the slightest bit of difference while the major emitters continue to show they have no intention of changing anytime soon. Regardless of what you may believe, there is no indication of any of them looking at Ireland and having a road to Damascus moment. High density areas are are not helping with wet bulb temperatures, but is that not just what the Irish Green`s favour. Empty the countryside and move everyone to urban areas where the population density will be higher



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,365 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    do you think the EU should do nothing? the EU has targets, we are in the EU, why should we be exempt? It's 500 million people and China's biggest customer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,616 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Strange question seeing as green supporters on here have no problem with us ignoring E.U. directives when it suits, and favour attempts to ban LNG a recognised transitional energy source by the E.U. China is the worlds number one emitter of CO2. Does it not seem incongruous to you that while the E.U. is promoting solar panels and E.V.`s, the number one supplier of solar panels and tipped to shortly became the same for E.V.`s is China who are opening even more coal burning plants and using slave labour to manufacture these products ?

    And that is not to even touch on China`s mining of rare earth metals, used amongst other hi-tech products in wind turbines.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,365 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    You said Ireland is too small to make a difference. But we're part of the EU, so we are 500 million people. Do you think the EU shouldn't be making changes to lower our carbon output?



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Saying Ireland is too small to make a difference globally is like saying Irish climate action plans shouldn't apply to Leitrim because its too small in the Irish context.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,262 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Jesus wept. You're pretending to be offended rather than actually address the point I made

    If we're going to import anything from China, then we must also allow slaves in Centra.

    Got it.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    if ireland was blown off the planet in the morning it would not make one bit of difference to climate action and that is a fact... i know ye greens find it hard to deal in facts though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    you see thats the problem with the green agenda they dont want to deal with reality, you are not meant to mention chinas co2 output, slave labour, rare earth extraction, new coal mines, oil nations continued exploration etc etc as it doesnt fit into their agenda.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,616 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I have no problem with Europe reducing CO2 emissions, but should Europe as China`s biggest customer be encentivising them to open more coal burning plants, use slave labour and environmentally unfriendly mining practices to do so for products to achieve that, which is essentially what is happening ?

    Not all of Europe is following the same strategy either in making changes. The German`s are back strip mining coal and exploring for natural gas, Finland back using peat and Norway throwing around exploration licenses. In Ireland we have had a Green Party bill banning explorations (gold and silver for some unexplained reason excluded) a Green Party sponsored bill attempting to ban an E.U. recognised transitional energy source and a Green Party Minister hand sitting on a possiible find that would go some way to having us in E.U. compliance on energy security which we are presently not in compliance with. Nor will we be if the Irish Green party gets their way and LNG is banned here.

    So to answer your question, it is not a case of Ireland as part of E.U.policy being too small to make a difference it`s that we are not even following E.U. ppolicy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,063 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    like most developed countries, we probably consume more than we produce, so if 5 million people were wiped off the planet, it probably would make a difference, in regards climate action.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    The average Irish puts out 12tons of CO2 a year so multiple that by 5million will say, that’s 60million tons per year, and that’s average.

    The average Chinese citizen puts out about 7tons per year. Course there are a lot more Chinese. China is the factory of the world, thanks to race to the bottom capitalism. They make stuff we consume it. If there was no demand on the consumer end they wouldn’t be making that stuff, a good chunk of what’s made in China is cheap plastic shite that really nobody needs but there is a demand so China makes more of it, why cause that’s how capitalism works,

    One can easily point the finger and say bloody Chinese with all there factories belching out CO2 but ask yourselves why are they doing it and perhaps one can see the wood and work out who has the problem.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Meanwhile, in the real world

     The release this week by the UN World Meteorological Organisation (WMO) of its ‘State of the Global Climate in 2021’ was just the latest in a seemingly endless series of dire warnings emanating from the scientific community about the rapidly deteriorating global climate system.


    The most direct and visible manifestation of this dangerous climatic disruption is in the escalation of extreme weather events around the world, with a heavy human toll as well as economic damages in 2021 running into hundreds of billions of euros. For those vested interests who have long argued that tackling climate change is “too expensive”, letting it spiral out of control is not proving to be much of a bargain either.


    Were it not for the enormous heat-trapping potential of the world’s oceans, much of the Earth’s land surface would already be too hot for human habitation. Luckily for us, some 90% of all the heat trapped by greenhouse gases last year were absorbed by the oceans.


    However, our luck is beginning to run out, with ocean acidification now at its highest level in millennia and threating to unravel marine ecosystems. Further, the ocean itself is heating, with additional warmth now penetrating as far as 2,000 metres deep.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,262 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Because more people live in densely populated areas.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    None of those things are the greens fault it decades of under investment what did that.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    OMG how do u not get it1!!!!1??!!

    Eamonn is there now so its all his fault.....everything......since 1922.....possibly before then too

    OMGERD!!?!11



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,262 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    image.png

    Here are the wet bulb temps from today from the West Bengal region between India and Bangladesh

    Lots of 30c wet bulb recordings from today. There were some 32c records from the previous few days.

    These are the kinds of conditions that can and do kill people from heat stress. These conditions have been happening for weeks

    image.png

    This is at 1 c of warming.

    1c. We're going to get to 3c plus if the fossil fuel industry get their way

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



Advertisement