What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

it beats having a lapdog and a traitor in the White House.

it did fail. there is no wall. Mexico did not pay for it. And he had a majority in both houses for 2 years and still couldn't get it done. He boasts that he is the great deal maker and still couldn't achieve anything with a majority.

Just a point on the above statement. The left carrying on like that is going to ensure that we aren't finished with Trump/Trump-like figures. The pendulum swings both ways. The more the left go around trying to shut out opposing opinions, the more the likelihood of a kick-back towards Trump-like politics.

Firstly, I am happy to debate policy.

"I'll give you one actual policy - enforcing Border Control. True, the Democrats successfully did everything they could to stop the wall being built"

Hang on - Trump had the White House, the House and the Senate. He didn't get it done. It was nothing to do with the democrats stopping him. He said Mexico was going to pay for it. They didn't. The wall was a shambles. It did not stop people coming into the country. It did not work. They are not opinions. They are fact.

"(The democrats) want illegal immigrants."

That's not true either. Obama had a stop and track policy which worked. The stats show it did. Trump's change in policy didn't work. They again are facts.

You can say that Trump wanted to stop illegal immigration. But his policies didn't work. Where's your criticism of him, as opposed to having a go at Democrats for his incompetency?

He employed illegal immigrants himself. How do you circle that square?

By gum, there's a Trump quote for everything.

I suppose we could start with him withdrawing from the Open Skies agreement giving russia a free hand in Ukraine.

bad? very bad you mean. and those policies were in place before covid so that is not an excuse. Denying citizenship to those who put their lives on the line for the country is inexcusable. The GOP and Trump claimed to support the military. how is that supporting the military?

prevent, no. that was not the intention of opens skies but you know that already.

"Definitely a fair point that he had both houses for 2 years. My memory of it is that they made some progress on it but given how big a project it was, it needed a lot more than 2 years to design, plan and begin construction on something that big (essentially half the length of America)."

That is giving him a huge pass on this. He campaigned on building the wall and Mexico paying for it. What you are saying is that he was not capable enough to understand the task and couldn't follow it through when he was in power. That is the reality of it. I could campaign on saying I would make everyone a millionaire, but because I tried to do it, i deserve the credit. The border issue is extremely complex and he hadn't a clue what he was doing.

You haven't addressed the facts, that are;

1) He (according to you) didn't grasp what was involved

2) He didn't build the wall

3) He campaigned that he would make Mexico pay for it, and he didn't

4) Moreover, his associate Bannon swindled his supporters out money from people like you who wanted it built.

NONE OF THAT is the Democrats fault.

"As for how effective it is, there was one hilarious incident with the reporter Jim Acosta where he showed up at a stretch of newly constructed wall, attempting to show it doesn't work but inadvertently proving it's effectiveness."

There are also clips of people flying over the wall, proving it didn't work.

We had a poster on here for months telling us that the wall was being built when it wasn't. I have no truck with CNN, but singling them out for bullshitting when FOX, OAN etc are doing it on a much more egregious scale.

"There was a calm scene, nobody around. Law. Order."

I'm not entirely sure whether that last part is an indication that Trump was a law and order president. If it was, I don't have enough hours in the day to debunk that.

"Tell me, if Trump proposed a stop and track policy, how do you think Democrats would respond to that? In all honesty, they would be linking it to slavery no doubt."

Now, what this is telling me is that no matter what the Democrats say, you will slate it. That, coupled with mentions of left leaning media, hunter biden etc really doesn't add credibility to your posts. That's not a personal attack, it is an overexaggeration that doesn't help your argument.

"His policies didn't work because his personality was such that he could not make a deal with the Democrats."

He did do deals. Reasonable deals were made on budgets etc.

He campaigned on being a deal maker, the best deal maker ever. He promised to make people wealthy, because incompetent politicians couldn't do the job.. but he could. Tell me, how did that go? Are you telling me, again, that he bit off more than he could chew?

"I get that they cannot be seen to be working constructively with him..."

Again, they did do deals with him.

"The Democrats were as obstructive to him as the Republicans were to Obama initially. Just disgusting."

If that's true, which it isn't, did you post on here having a go at McConnell et al while they relished in obstructing Obama at every turn?

"Where I would criticise him is the braggadocio around getting "Mexico to pay" for it. Fantasy land stuff."

Hang on. This is not a victimless statement. He promised to make Mexico pay for it and took it from tax payer money. That's more than just an empty promise.

"He is not without fault, absolutely."

Agreed

"But people voted as much for his policies, and to go against Hillary, and less so because they endorsed every facet of his personality."

And there is the but.

You mentioned people forgiving Churchill for his flaws. That's a fair point. So tell me, on what basis could Trump's "achievements" in any way compare or balance the scale of his flaws? The only way that it could, in your or anyone else's book, would be if you don't see Trump's flaws in the same way others do because in terms of what he achieved, there is a pitiful amount, so few in fact I cannot make a list.

So far, you have excused Trump saying Mexico would pay for the wall as braggadocio, mentioned left leaning media, had a swipe at CNN, mentioned Hunter Biden's laptop, denied that Trump helped Putin out, blamed the democrats on Trump's failings and sought to minimise January 6th and Trump's involvement in it.