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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Yes its in reply to your last comment or for some reason is that also not permitted?

    Infact the phrase "what about gas" as a retort was used so frequently that's it now has meme status as per @tom1ie comment above. Which is fairly funny tbf.

    Public bank? I've no idea because I didnt find anyone stopping you from talking about a public bank. If I remember correctly you went on about that topic at some length.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    10,000 acres is not a very big area you know - about 4000 hectares or 40 square kilometres. That's say a piece of land 10 kms in length by 4 km in width.

    If that's all we need for solar for the entire country, it would have minimal impact spread over say 20 sites or whatever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    The fact the poster is unaware that roof space can be used for solar panels kind of says it’s all.


    A roof space the size of Facebook for instance would hold thousands of panels for electricity generation and no need to use up fields , it’s seems other see the benefit


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/07/10/nyregion/nyc-solar-power.amp.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    You must have completely missed where I replied to your previous "roof space" comment?

    These are not plans for "roof space" rather industrial scale planned installations on agricultural land either in process or awaiting full approval.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    As far as I'm aware it’s s the minimum area required to meet ongoing and future energy requirements. Relative to the amount of hedgerow and tree removal required its still fairly significant. And this especially where hedges and trees are otherwise protected. On the local scale for habitat removal it would be significant. I know of two such applications which have been refused todate due to the density of landscape and archaeological features which would have been impacted.

    What's notable is that brownfield sites are not being utilised as is fairly common in the UK and elsewhere for solar farm installations. Not sure why that is tbh

    Post edited by Mecanudo on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Make up your mind - what area is required for solar farms? To put in context again, County Dublin is one of our smaller counties and is over 900 square kilometres. If your minimum figures above are correct, that's 20+ times the area needed. Cork is 7,500 square kilometres, 180 times the area you quoted.

    So 40 sqkm is nothing really. As for hedgerows and trees, we have extensive lands where these have already been pulled out. Never mind cut away bogs. And of course, Dublin Bay if they were on floating platforms.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Ireland is going to have a number of large solar farms. A few are already in planning etc. But we still should be putting together a better plan to utilise house roof, even if that is to take the base load of each house during the day. Even on a terrible winters day the panels on my roof take the base load off the house if nothing else. The only time they don't work is when they are covered in snow. Not a huge problem for Ireland I think we can all agree. ]

    Connecting to the majority of house is no issue but some with older electricity board etc will be a problem but they are in the smaller minority. Then the question is what about warehouse/shed for farming etc. THey have initial plans but nothing that you could go to a farmer now and say invest. Believe me I have talked to a few and all are interested but the numbers are just not ready yet

    I did see an interesting email from Neasa Hourigan last night on a solar panel groups which says the system is already up and running and ready for go live. The poster said they would clarify. Filling up sheds around Ireland would be an easy plan especially as most farmers are on 3 phase and they will be able to pump more electricity back in, with single phase in houses you are limited to what you can put up on roof.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    I'd suggest you go read up on it. The 10,000 has been stated as the minimum needed. Capiche?

    Loads of brownfield locations out there which would be better utilised for solar farms imo.

    As for the rest I leave it with you.

    Post edited by Mecanudo on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    😂

    Do you know what, no thanks! If you have a suspicion then off you go and back it up. I don't respond to bullies.

    After all, it wasn't me that said Solar PV only works 3 months a year, solar PV costs thousands to install. Baffled why you have it when you clearly have no interest in it or idea how to work it



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There are some caveats with the farm solar generation schemes which make them downright f'in stupid and likely to lead to low take-up.

    Main issues are the power generated can only be used for farming purposes and can't be used by in the farm home and also can't be sold to the grid.

    Utterly stupid. A great scheme made crap by conditions such as those.

    I was delighted when I saw the announcement and then I read into the details....



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Surely a few hundred acres of Phoenix park can be put under solar panels?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,617 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Why not take up a few hundred acres for housing too?

    Public parks are what they are for a reason. Moment you start to erode them for one thing, might aswell just tear it all up



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Good idea, Dublin doesn't that big of a park. Couple of Judge Dread style mega-blocks with windmills and solar panels on top,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    🤣

    I already posted and now you carrying on like a child. Cop on to yourself

    If you want to accuse someone of lying back it up, little keyboard warrior



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    And this means what to me? State owns Phoenix Park, you can sort all your Dublin housing and energy issues by building huge tower blocks with solar panels and turbines on top. No need for big pylons and cables dragging power from every corner of the country, throw in a couple of Data centres and a chippie and you'd never need to leave the house Broke, Green paradise with a Foxconn theme.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer




  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No, there's more to it. I can't find it right now but I'll have a dig around later. If the search worked properly here I'd pull up where I posted the details previously.

    There are a lot of silly limitations when it comes to solar installations for farmers which amounted to them being able to install to cover their farming usage and that was about it. Maybe I have my schemes mixed up but I don't think so. I'll see if I can root out where I posted about it previously.

    Edit: Found it

    .....there are significant limitations under TAMS to support adoption of solar on farms. This includes the maximum size of PV panels eligible for grant aid at 11kW and the fact that electricity generated must be used on the farm. It is also not permitted to use or export the electricity generated for domestic, commercial or non-farming use.


    “If Ireland is committed to meet the carbon reduction targets for electricity of 62% to 81% as set out in the Climate Action Plan, a new scheme must be introduced that supports farmers to install rooftop solar PV, which optimises the renewable energy that can be produced on farm buildings and allows farmers to use excess energy for domestic purposes or to sell to the grid,” said Mr. O’Brien. 

    As far as I am aware the new schemes don't address the issues above but perhaps I am wrong on that, hope I am



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    If you could provide, I am part of a couple of solar groups and a lot of farmers looking at this scheme and think they can sell direct to the grid. If that is not the case in the middle of the T&C's it would be a huge let down for people.

    Im aware of that. But as I posted an email to a member of the group from Green party Neasa mentioned payment. Also this company has offered as well but I haven't read the T&Cs

    https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/energy-company-to-offer-farmers-17-5c-kwh-for-solar-pv-generation/?utm_content=buffer9cb95&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer&fbclid=IwAR3mgbwx2_E4iV8tUNdS8V0Gyrh_fM9eru5ctiaY6-eRi1P0uExG8-TU2yE



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  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    I think this is two different programs. This is under the TAMS program. I don't know much about this but I know a mate looked into it and wasn't impressed. From reading it is a higher grant towards the installation and run by IFA

    The micro generation is a different program and is via the SEAI.

    Checking around now and TAMS is open a number of years now, was available last year anyway (https://spvenergy.ie/tams-grant/)


    • Non-domestic applicants, e.g. businesses, farms, schools, community buildings etc., will be able to apply for a grant for installations up to 6.0kWe, at the same grant amounts as domestic customers. This is expected to be in place later in the year
    • Non-domestic applicants will be able to apply for a Clean Export Premium tariff for installations between 6.1kWe and 50kWe. In 2022, the CEP tariff will be €0.135/kWh. The CEP will be offered at a fixed rate for 15 years, and eligible volumes will be capped at 80% of generation capacity to encourage self-consumption




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Checked the Eirgrid dashboard earlier, renewables below 5% and importing 9%. If this calm spell lasts another week I'd expect prices to get another hike



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    And just before the usual advocates arrive with the same old 'this proves we need even more renewable energy generation' or wtte - just one very windy weekend in late January-early February this year provided for approx 85% of Irish electricity demand via renewable energy generation

    So it's not that we don't necessarily have enough renewables -it's the fact that our weather often fails to provide for stable and reliable renewable energy generation. And a wider geographical spread of renewables ain't going to change that either as has been seen in the poor performance of renewable energy generation all across Europe this winter.

    Edit lol See below

    Post edited by Mecanudo on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Again this proves we haven’t invested in renewable, if we had invested in solar we would have significant power generated today

    Today performance was great for solar, 6.20 my system started to generate



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,241 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The lack of perspective here is not going to age well. Faux concern over hedgerows won't look so good as climate change causes the collapse of eco systems all around the planet.

    The faux concern about energy prices or energy shortages will be laughable in light of the global food shortages we will see in a 3 to 4c world

    Society can easily live without reliable electricity. A few days without food and clean water and,and it becomes existential.

    Unless you value convenience now above survival in 30 years, We absolutely have to leave most of the oil and gas underground. This means we need to invest in our future now while we can still afford it.

    Leave it until later on, when our resources are already massively depleted by the mounting climate impacts and we're contemplating the unthinkable.

    Nobody will care about petty arguments in the irish green party manifesto as there are a billion climate refugees asking us whether we let them die or share our diminishing resources with them

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,241 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Are you monitoring global wheat production at the same level that you monitor electricity?

    Potato yields are down significantly in recent years as drought conditions become normalised...

    You are super concerned about the theoretical possibility of low wind causing continental energy shortage

    Not once have you considered the possibility of continental events causing crop failures and acute food shortages

    Climate change makes this much more likely

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,241 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Solar and wind are excellent complimentary technologies. We also need storage. Which can be grid scale with existing proven technologies or distributed by encouraging end users to have some amount of local storage.

    A network of smart grids with storage is so much more efficient than the current permanent crisis mode that the national grid has inherited.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Eh? Global wheat production? Lol.

    We're talking specifically about electricity generation here.

    And not "theoretical possibility" but what happened in Ireland and neighbouring Europe this winter regarding the weather and electricity generation via renewables

    Or are you going to go all whataboutery on the topic with things like spuds once again?

    Post edited by Mecanudo on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Ah krist not this again. And were straight back into your apocalyptic disaster movie scenario again despite the IPCC never stating that civilisation was about to collapse.

    And I guess because of that all bets are off and we get every excuse to destroy the environment with impunity because your own take on the issue


    Post edited by Mecanudo on


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