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2022 In Between Grand Slam Thread

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The exemption process is there and multiple people applied - we don't know the full number.

    We know that until very recently 35% of the ATP Tour were unvaccinated.

    Anyone was free to apply to the process.

    It's not exactly news that Djokovic had an aversion to taking a vaccine.

    What is surprising about him applying exactly? - like others did - he's using the process that's there.

    I 've no idea what he or the others put into their application

    I'm all for the vaccines and value their worth in the fight against Covid but I can see Djokovic's point of view -

    • he already had Covid and it didn't affect him so he doesn't fear getting it again
    • I'm not the number 1 tennis player in the world so I wouldn't consider it a risk that vaccine is going to impact my sports outcomes in any serious way but I can see his point that if he believes that even a fraction of 1 % impact could impact him. it's an individual sport at the highest level. even the effect of him really believing that a vaccine could negatively impact him if he had to get a vaccine could throw him off - that's actually very understandable
    • now with Omicron it actually makes pretty much no difference if someone like Djokovic gets a vaccine or not to anyone else as it won't (currently) increase spread in the Omicron world. it doesn't affect anyone else, whereas before it did (and may in the future IF they produce a vaccine that reduces Omicron spread). so if it doesn't change anything what is there to get so exorcised about... unless....

    But moving away from the world of actual reality for a moment do you seriously think that the best male tennis player ever would jeopardise his legacy by trying to bribe Tennis Australia to get into the Australian Open - that is just absolutely foaming-at-the-mouth stuff!!

    we all know money has been exchanged somewhere along the way



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,866 Mod ✭✭✭✭whiterebel


    Pretty obvious he stared down Tennis Australia. Bad example for them to set after all the bad feeling last year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,865 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    I think the AO engineered a solution designed specifically to allow Djokovic to play the AO, I don't actually think Djokovic tried to bribe them, but, I think they (AO) thought the tournament would lack credibility without Djokovic in it. Let's face it the tournament will be more interesting and better with Djokovic in it. A few other unvaccinated players will benefit who would have missed out as, but, they are only a by - product of this solution designed specifically for Djokovic, it would look too obvious if only one player had an exemption 🤣.

    With the execption of the very rare genuine cases (who probably aren't at the very elite level anyway), nearly all medical exemptions in sport are generally BS ( TUEs for example), are we really expected to believe that all these elite sports people are suffering from all these various ailments yet go on to compete and win at the highest levels, yet we all hear about the tiny percentages that make the difference.

    I would have no issue with Djokovic, he has applied and received his exemption and is now free to play in the AO It's the AO and Australian officials who look foolish now as they were adamant until very recently than no unvaccinated player would even be allowed enter the state of Victoria!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    With 35% of the ATP Tour unvaccinated as of late October 2021 (plus some on WTA most likely) there was a potential large gap of players that could potentially be absent - obviously he's the highest profile name.

    I see that there was some provision for some "mental" aspects in the exemption - that would open things up to a psychiatrist's interpretation with no claim of allergic reaction TUE's required.

    But as said for some players it could well be a mental aspect on the vaccine - isn't the mental aspect always talked about lol- where your bread and butter (and chasing history for some) comes down to your mental and physical game in an individual sport it's a different ball-game (literally).

    Also as said with Omicron over the last month the impact of fit athletes who are never going to be burdening the health system is for all intensive purposes negligible on broader society as them having a vaccine or not is not increasing Covid spread where Omciron is so transmissible for the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭jacool


    The 36% has diminished a lot lately, but I suspect you knew this already.

    The rate of vaccination in the top 100 in men's tennis is 95%, according to ATP Tour data.

    You can go on defending Djokovic blindly - the issue is not him, its Australia Tennis being spineless. Dunno why you have to defend him at every turn.

    You can admire his tennis without the sad fan element attached. I strongly dislike Novak, as I have met him personally, but I won't deny that he did this. Novak Djokovic donates astounding $5.6 million to Serbian public health system (republicworld.com)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,865 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    The tournament would lack credibility without Djokovic, look at Thiem's USO win, even though Djokovic was there, and managed to get disqualified-nothing to do with Thiem -his win there is constantly questioned as the prevailing opinion is that Djokovic would have won but, for the disqualification, it's likely he would have, but, not guaranteed and we'll never know. It would be the same with the AO, whoever won in his absence it would be said he wouldn't have won it if Djokovic was there, at least this way the winner ( most likely Djokovic) will not be in question.

    I think the organisers would do the same for all the big names when in their prime, Nadal, Federer, Serena etc. They can't afford for the big names to be absent from their tournaments and will try to accommodate them if at all possible.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    you have made some dubious statements / ignoring the obvious facts today that you were corrected on.

    where is this ATP 95% vaccination rate data - haven't seen that myself?

    but it wasn't known at 95% back a month ago when the Australians were considering what to do was it?

    I'm merely pointing out things that are the case - with Omicron it makes no difference to broader society if the super-fit tennis athletes are vaccinated or not - they are no burden on the the health system and are not spreading Omicron any significant amount more than us vaccinated are.

    yet it somehow seems to be a big deal nevertheless .... somehow.

    So you've just declared that you have an agenda against Djokovic - about time you got that out in the open! Did he not sign your tennis ball or something?!

    edit - found it here -

    https://www.wionews.com/sports/mystery-remains-regarding-novak-djokovics-participation-with-atp-cup-days-away-440672



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭jacool


    quote "where is this ATP 95% vaccination rate data - haven't seen that myself?"

    reuters.com There has been intense speculation over Djokovic's participation at the Australian Open, which starts on 17 January, with the 34-year-old, who is opposed to vaccinations, repeatedly declining to say if he has been innoculated against Covid-19. The rate of vaccination in the top 100 in men's tennis is 95%, according to ATP Tour data. 

    Dubious statements - mention them here please? Dying to see anything dubious.

    Note: It was his personality I disliked. Perhaps needed to achieve his level of success. I've met more famous people (none tennis players I add) but none quite as arrogant as Novak.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    • anonymised application process for exemptions - Djokovic could not be favoured over any other applicants to the process but you say "they have bent over backwards to accommodate him" - but it's anonymous
    • Omicron -> huge amount of cases in Melbourne already before Djokovic has even taken his first fart after getting off the plane and difference in spread from unvaccinated and vaccinated in the case of Omicron is not different to any extent - "most locked down city" stuff brought up by you is past irrelevance yet you harp on about it
    • going on before about other players should complain about having to stay in the same hotel as Djokovic if he's not vaccinated when again with Omicron makes no difference as just as likely to be spread and infected by Omnicron - Djokovic would be as likely to get it off another player as he to pass Covid to them


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,865 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    Super fit athletes shouldn't need medical exemptions, not just in relation to vaccines but, in sport in general, doesn't matter who the athlete involved is, everyone knows it's a farce, but don't object because they might use it themselves someday.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Without getting into the vaccine debate, Djokovic was pummelled by Medvedev in US Open final, so I don't think Djokovic being missing at AO 2022 would discredit the winner in the way the USO 2020 winner has been discredited (unfairly in my view).

    Absolutely no guarantee Djokovic will win this.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    completely no guarantee that Djokovic is set to win herein I agree and would be less of an impact than the US Open 2020 if he wasn't there.

    Zverev is a completely different player now and seems very confident in himself. He's making noises that it's his time.

    Medvedev has beaten Djokovic in a slam final, knows he has the game to beat him and certainly fancies his chances on these courts.

    Time is moving on as always for Djokovic.

    But going back to the US Open in 2020 tho the final was one of really bad quality for a men's grand slam final and it was a case of who lost less that won in the end between Thiem and Zverev

    It's hard to argue that Djokovic wouldn't have breezed that run out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    No fans definitely has an impact. Players feed off the energy of the crowd.

    That said, the Tokyo Olympics rips that theory apart, particularly the track performances.

    Maybe crowd has a greater impact in certain sports. I believe tennis to be one of them but that's just an opinion.



  • Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,349 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    You didn't answer my questions at all, so I'll try again. Do you genuinely believe that Djokovic cannot medically be vaccinated against covid-19? Do you genuinely believe that he hasn't used his power/influence in some way to avoid getting vaccinated?

    I never said he tried to bribe Tennis Australia (although I've no doubt his legal team will have been exerting pressure), rather whoever it was that provided the 'evidence' that he can't be vaccinated. He's arguably one of the best athletes not just in tennis but across many sports. God knows what kind of medications/anti-inflammatories etc. he'll have pumped into his body over the years, how can anyone reasonably be expected to believe he fits such a narrow criteria for an exemption?



  • Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭lostcat


    re vaccines, Vikhlyantseva is an interesting case, she took the Russian Sputnik vaccine, which isn't recognized / approved in AUS and so seemingly won't be let into the country which seems extremely unfair.

    Djokovic is going to come under pressure to reveal what his exemption was for, there is likely to be a fair bit of backlash to this down under. It's unfortunately not the first time he has been tone deaf re Covid and what most people have put up with over the past couple of years. He may not really care, echo chambers be echo chambers.


    The most likely exemption for most players would, I expect, be that they had recently contracted covid. if thats the case with Djokovic, he shouldn't have a problem confirming same, he did it the first time he contacted the disease....

    Post edited by lostcat on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    we all know money has been exchanged somewhere along the way

    Even a small child would interpret that that as insinuating that Djokovic paid somebody off.

    You seem to work yourself up into a complete frenzy if something goes Djokovic's way. It might be worth looking into breathing exercises or something.


    I did address the question about why Djokovic thinks he can't get the vaccine: -

    he already had Covid and it didn't affect him so he doesn't fear getting it again


    I'm not the number 1 tennis player in the world so I wouldn't consider it a risk that vaccine is going to impact my sports outcomes in any serious way but I can see his point that if he believes that even a fraction of 1 % impact could impact him. it's an individual sport at the highest level. even the effect of him really believing that a vaccine could negatively impact him if he had to get a vaccine could throw him off - that's actually very understandable


    The Australian Open is the first Grand Slam to mandate / demand vaccination as a pre-requisite so THEY HAD TO PUT INTO PLACE AN EXEMPTIONS process - regardless of Djokovic.

    On a legal basis, they had to have a process in place - if you could process a rational thought putting Djokovic aside for a moment you might be able to fathom that.

    If Djokovic had been run over by a bus last November (don't get too excited by the thought!) they would still have to do that.

    Djokovic as others did, used the process. Absolutely no surprise there.

    Sure someone could grab Djokovic and jab his arm and he probably would be ok physically but as I said above he believes that he could impact him. He's playing for higher stakes that the biddies on boards, making tennis history here - and he strongly and truly believes that it's not in his interest to be vaccinated. For sure it would mentally affect him as he does actually strongly believe that it's not going to be good for him - maybe some would like that.... the placebo effect is real, so is the reverse psychosomatic effect.

    Therefore he used the process.

    He's already had Covid also as explained so that's a known to him.

    Again, with Omicron ripping across the vaccinated population (including already in Melbourne before Djokovic has gotten near the place) there is actually no societal effect of Djokovic not being vaccinated. Yet the frenzy continues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭lostcat


    the 'omicron ripping through the population' issue is a red herring Glasso and is not relevant, vaccines are still required in Australia unless there is a medical reason why one cannot have one.

    As for the potential impact on performance of getting a vaccine, this could be construed as him angling for and getting an advantage over the field, most of whom have had a vaccine. Not a cool way of doing that.

    As for playing for higher stakes than the biddies on boards, I don't think that's on the allowable exemption list?

    His previous and long standing aversion to vaccines does not tally with his suddenly having an 'exemption' from having to get one. That's what really stinks the place up, whether he has a valid exemption or not.

    For balance, one fact which is out of Djokovic's control, is that this is really a spat between the National and Victorian governments over who has jurisdiction and control over Covid policy. I see the (rather odious) Australian PM is now commenting that he will have Djokovic on 'the next plane back' if he can't explain why he got an exemption.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He availed of the process that legally had to be there.

    Simple as.

    That is the situation.

    Others used the exact same process.

    The rest of the post was in response to "questions that must be answered" !!!

    The "red herring" of Omicron rendering vaccine spread containment useless is simply an actual reality check of the real-world environment!

    Anyway, certainly adds plenty of spice to the tournament now if Djokovic is not sent home or whatever.

    Funny to see the Aussie politicians whiplash reaction to some backlash after Djokovic has simply used their very own two-level (Tennis Australia Medical advisory panel AND Governmental panel) process.

    Australia has no shortage of boorish gobshites, at least a fair many of whom will most likely make it into the crowd, quite possibly after consuming a few alcoholic beverages.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    He's now being held at passport control because the visa he applied for doesn't cover medical exemptions from vaccines.

    The plot thickens...



  • Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,349 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    I did address the question about why Djokovic thinks he can't get the vaccine

    Except this wasn't the question I asked you at all. Djokovic thinks that we can change the molecular structure of water through our emotions, and that dinner table arguments can make food less nutritious, so I'm not sure he should be listened to about anything related to medical matters. What he believes is irrelevant. I asked you the question twice and you deflected twice because you can't answer the question, and you know full well that there's no legitimate reason that a healthy 34 year old can't take the vaccine.

    The rest of your post is irrelevant nonsense and clutching at straws ("reverse psychosomatic effect" 😅). The fact he's already had covid and that Omicron is ripping through the population is also irrelevant. Australia set out their stall this year; get vaccinated or fuck off. The rules are very clearly defined, yet he's managed to engineer a situation that allows him to skirt around it. There is no valid reason a perfectly healthy 34 year old cannot be vaccinated against covid-19.

    The question here is why you're trying to defend the indefensible? You said yourself a while back that he's being a "gobshite" about the vaccines, so what's changed? I also find it amusing you accuse me of getting worked up, when it's you who gets hysterical whenever someone dares to criticise him. We all like tennis here, we all have our favourites and players we dislike, but I could never imagine being so consumed with my adoration for a player that all logic and reason gets thrown out the window. The lack of self awareness here is really quite astonishing.



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  • Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,349 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    Three hours since he landed and he's still not been let through! Doubt this will come to anything though, seems more like it was a paperwork mistake than anything else.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    lol.

    I've already said that I support vaccines many times.

    Djokovic was stupid to publicly put out his stance in 2020 about vaccines when asked about it but at least he realised his mistake there and sought to ensure since that the true anti-vax loopers couldn't use him for their nefarious purposes.

    He has refused to be drawn on the subject since.

    Djokovic used the process that's there in this case.

    If you can't understand that such a process was going to exist in the absence of Djokovic then I can't help that.

    Couldn't be simpler.

    I'm giving my interpretation of Djokovic's thinking - I don't care whether you want to agree with that interpretation or not really.

    You have proven more than once that you are likely to fly off the handle and come up with crazy accusations ("bribery" being the latest and greatest!) and seething hatred outbursts when something goes Djokovic's way or he does such and such - it's actually comical to behold!



  • Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,349 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    I'll try one last time 😂

    I'm not arguing with how the exemption process works or it's existence, rather the fact that there was no legitimate reason for him to use it at all. There is no valid reason as to why a healthy 34 year old cannot be vaccinated against covid-19. The fact that you can't answer simple questions, deflect and attack when backed into a corner proves that you know this too.

    You have proven more than once that you are likely to fly off the handle and come up with crazy accusations ("bribery" being the latest and greatest!) and seething hatred outbursts when something goes Djokovic's way or he does such and such - it's actually comical to behold!

    Again, this is just more pure nonsense. I've never at any stage "flown off the handle" and partaken in any "seething hatred outbursts", and it's amusing that you perceive any criticism to be that. Now to be fair I did call him a c*nt yesterday because let's be honest here, he has been a bit of a c*nt throughout this saga. But I criticise lots of players when they behave poorly, Serena and Kyrgios being two of the many examples, it's a normal part of being a sports fan and engaging in discussion. Repeating myself here I know, but your lack of self awareness is something else. You obviously never read back your own posts on here or possess any insight into how you come across. The weirdly personal attacks on posters/commentators who dare to say a bad word about Djokovic, your clear issues with women.. it's strange. Difficult to use this thread at the moment tbh, but I guess this is what happens when moderation disappears ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



  • Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,349 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    Anyway, in spite of the shitshow of the last 24 hours, there is actually being tennis played at the moment!

    Kokkinakis got a great win over Tiafoe in Adelaide, into the QF's. Can never fully work out what's going on with Thanasi, if it's injuries or just poor form, but he's rarely able to consistently string a few wins together.

    Barty got pushed hard by Gauff, was down a set and a break but managed to pull through. Osaka was taken to three sets by Cornet in her first match since losing at the US Open. Osaka wouldn't exactly be a favourite of mine anymore (to say the least) but I guess it would be good for tennis to see her string a few wins together. I expect she'll withdraw before she has a chance to lose though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,680 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Well shock horror because the whole thing has been a clusterfuck. Between tennis Australia, the Victorian government, the Australia government they’ve all been scrambling and an issue with his visa was mentioned in a Clip I saw last night from an Australian news channel so interesting to see there’s a holdup.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    so bribery is not a crazy accusation ..... right....

    and I think that you just proved the point about the flying off the handle yourself in your own response.

    I don't have access to Djokovic's medical history or what reasoning he / his team put into the exemptions process - do you?

    That is why I can't answer that specific question.

    I don't feel "backed into a corner" there in the slightest on that point - that's actually just bizarre projection on your behalf.

    But if you read more carefully I did say yesterday that I hazarded a guess that he may have used something to do with the "mental" exclusions that some of the criteria apparently might provide for.

    But that's just a guess.

    Again I obviously don't know Djokovic's personal medical history!

    It's actually quite baffling that you keep pushing that line tbh

    As for the other stuff we have been over this before so I don't see the need to address it again - I believe that the standard of tennis on the WTA is on the whole is completely inconsistent and generally shite (and has been the case for a long time) and don't see why exactly it is compensated completely uniquely at the Grand Slams and some other tournaments unlike any other professional sport in the world (men's or women's) where ratings and value to advertisers determine the compensation.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Australians between their federal and regional authorities making themselves look like right muppets tbh

    Sales of popcorn must be through the roof due to this!

    Speculation is that Djokovic's reason for exemption is a recent Covid infection.

    Whatever about the actual multi-level medical exemption process - will it pass the boards' biddy test?

    There is no valid reason as to why a healthy 34 year old cannot be vaccinated against covid-19

    .... You never know who might assume that he had some covid party or something to deliberately contract it - surely the next "il logical" assumption to jump to for some!

    Some of these Feds are pulling out all the stops to prevent Djokovic having a chance of getting to 21 slams!

    Are the cameras rolling 😂 ? ->




  • Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,349 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    Oh my 😬

    Difficult to know how this is going to play out until we get the full facts, but my first hunch is that this may be just some sort of stunt by the Australian government? They'll relent in a few hours time when they've made it look like they've done all they could to make sure correct procedures were followed. On the other hand, if this is a paperwork/visa issue then maybe it could pan out differently. I obviously don't know of all the intricacies involved in getting into Australia, but a lot of the commentary I've seen so far has said that if all your papers aren't 100% correct then you're turned away at the airport and will be on the first flight out. I very much doubt that will happen in this case, but will be interesting to see how this plays out. Either way, it's not going to be as seamless as the Djokovic camp were perhaps hoping it would.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Apparently the situation is something like as follows ->

    Federal government putting it up to the state government to give the final say-so if they are going to let Djokovic in,

    So effectively then they (state) would be seen as the ones for the public to point the finger at giving the final "yes" on entry and public backlash would be directed at the state!

    State effectively saying that it's a Federal issue!

    The 20-time grand slam winner was attempting to enter the country on a visa that does not permit medical exemptions for being unvaccinated, a source briefed on the matter told The Age and the Herald.


    As a result, Border Force sought Victorian government support to facilitate his entry. The federal agency asked for the Andrews government’s support because Victoria partners with Tennis Australia in running the event that Djokovic’s visa pertains to.


    Federal authorities contacted Victorian departmental officials asking them to formally back his application. Victorian officials asked the federal authorities to put their request in writing and eventually rejected the request to sponsor Djokovic’s visa.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,036 ✭✭✭Royale with Cheese


    They'll let him in. It's turned into a fiasco now, they can't afford not to.



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