The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 3) Mod Notes and Threadbanned List in OP

I am not a fan of violence to achieve political aims even when it's enticing and when indeed the state actors are willing to use violence for their own aims. I guess it depends on the degress.

The violence leveled against the ANC and black South Africans was much more, yet by and large, the ANC under the leadership of Mandella tried to force the situation through peaceful means. This is why we should be looking at the likes of John Hume who wanted to achieve Civil Rights through peaceful means. MLK and Ghandi are other examples.

Yet, today we have the revisionism that SF/PIRA was all about civil rights for nationalists, which is ahistorical rubbish. They were for getting the Brits out of Ireland by whatever means necessary, by murdering and killing, with no political or democratic mandate, and of course to hell with the Unionists because might is right. That is why we have those pushing a certain narrative.

As to your examples, well beating a B Special who was dishing it out himself is rather different from planting bombs in pubs and town centers and blowing civilians and kids to pieces, is it not?

And while the North was not a good place for Nationalists, again with the degrees, it wasn't the Warsaw Ghetto either.

If the B Specials were rounding up Catholics and pushing them into gas chambers by the tens of thousands by the day then yes, I would say one has a right to fight back, but again it depends on the degrees. What was happening in the North didn't give anyone the right to plant bombs in civilian areas to achieve a political aim.

Remember, SF had very little political support right up to the 90's. Most nationalists and Catholics didn't support them or the PIRA.

You mention the “few” occasions civilians were killed in IRA bombings. Do you know how many this “few” actually is?

The “vast majority” of IRA members killed in the troubles were killed either by their comrades or own weapons, not by the security forces.

You are also claiming that in the “few” bombings in which civilians were killed, these deaths were mostly “accidental”.

This is true.

"“The greatest danger to you if you were a Provisional IRA volunteer was not the RUC or the British Army – it was your own organisation killing you either accidentally or intentionally,” said Prof Kennedy, speaking at the West Cork History Festival in Skibbereen."

"“The Provisional IRA proved the dynamic for three decades of political violence and as such was primarily responsible for the Troubles – the Provisional IRA was not about civil rights or defending Catholic communities, it was about achieving a 32 county republic by force of arms.”"

Most of those IRA members were killed by the IRA, either accidentally or deliberately.

I posted already in the thread this article.

"Forty per cent of Provisional IRA Volunteers died at the hands of the security forces but 60 per cent were not killed by security forces with many of these being killed when guns and explosives went off prematurely or when they were shot as informers by the Provisional IRA."

Except it didn't fall apart. The clear information is that the PIRA killed more IRA members than anyone else. Some of that was inept incompetence as idiots blew themselves up, and other parts of it were psychopathic avengers picking out alleged informants and shooting them in the head.

This is the exact quote of what I said ''The vast majority of people killed by the IRA were the security forces mainly British army'', you called me a liar for saying that.

I don't know about IRA bombings but I know the vast majority of people killed by the IRA were the security forces, mainly British army.

Where are you getting your sources from?

According to CAIN, the IRA was responsible for 1,705 deaths, about 48% of the total conflict deaths.

Of these,1,009 (about 59%) were members of the British security forces, while 508 (about 29%) were civilians.

The civilian figure also includes civilians employed by British security forces, politicians, members of the judiciary, prison guards and alleged criminals and informers.Most of the remainder were loyalist or republican paramilitary members,

We are talking about the IRA here blanch, not all the republican groups over the last 50 years.

I said the vast majority of people killed by the IRA were the security forces, which is true.

Do you accept this?

You said that civilians were only killed in IRA bombings on a “few” occasions and even then it was “mostly accidental”.

Do you stand over this statement?

What are you rambling on about now, no one said that the IRA didn't kill McCabe, the IRA said themselves that some of their members were responsible.

Is Jean McConville on your IRA list?

They denied her until 1999. There are others too, where they pretended that they had nothing to do with them being killed. That is why I presented the data the way I did, and I stand over it.