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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,751 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    If you raise the imaginary stakes high enough, you can justify anything to yourself, but that doesn’t actually win the argument. A monkey wrench has been thrown in the machinations of those intending for idealogical reasons to build electricity generation using mostly random generated sources, specifically the availability and economic cost of natural gas used to make up for the difference caused by constant fluctuations in random generation.

    Nor are todays problem unforeseen. This was broadcast by Russia Today earlier this year. It features a comment by Russian president Putin back 2010, sliced with a recent advert shown on a German television station. Obviously in the current geopolitical context it has value for propaganda purposes.



    Germany’s Reaction To The Energy Crisis Could Be Catastrophic

    Coal and nuclear energy made up 40% of the overall energy mix in Germany. Meanwhile, renewables fell to 41% of the mix. Still, Germany is stuck on kicking its coal and nuclear habit—coal because it’s dirty, and nuclear because of Fukushima. The decision to retire the latter was made shortly after the Fukushima disaster, but since then, coal use has risen to fill in the gaps left by nuclear.


    This year, Germany plans to shut down the Grohnde, Gundremmingen C, and Brokdorf nuclear plants, which will leave Germany with just three. Those final three will be retired by the end of next year.

    For coal, Germany has agreed to phase out coal by 2030—up from its previous goal of retiring coal in the country by 2038.


    <snip>

    Germany also has a plan to kick its natural gas habit, with plans to end power generation from gas by 2040. Currently, half of all German homes are heated with natural gas. By 2026, a ban in Germany on the installation of heating in new homes using any type of petroleum products will go into effect in favor of heat pumps that draw electricity from the grid.


    Exit Nord Stream 2, Enter Power of Siberia 2

    One the top takeaways of the strategic Putin-Xi video conference last week was the immediate future of Power of Siberia 2 – which will snake in across Mongolia to deliver up to 50 billion cubic meters of natural gas annually to China.


    So it was hardly an accident that Putin received Mongolian President Ukhnaagiin Khurelsukh in the Kremlin, the day after he talked to Xi, to discuss Power of Siberia 2. The key parameters of the pipeline have already been set, a feasibility study will be completed in early 2022, and the deal – minus last-minute pricing tune-ups – is practically clinched.


    Power of Siberia 2 follows the 2,200 km long Power of Siberia 1, launched in 2019 from Eastern Siberia to northern China and the focus of a $400 billion deal struck between Gazprom and China’s CNPC. Power of Siberia 1’s full capacity will be reached in 2025, when it will be supplying 38 billion cubic meters of gas annually.


    Power of Siberia 2, a much bigger operation, was planned years ago, but it was hard to find consensus on the final route. Gazprom wanted Western Siberia to Xinjiang across the Altai mountains. The Chinese wanted transit via Mongolia straight into central China. The Chinese eventually prevailed. The final route across Mongolia was decided only two months ago. Construction should begin in 2024.


    EU countries are generally following the same game plan without regard for the economic costs and social consequences of these decisions.

    1. Increase demand for secondary energy (electricity) by forcing consumers across the EU to become dependent solely on secondary energy sources for transport and heating.
    2. Decrease supply of and massively increase the cost of consuming primary energy sources (Oil, Gas, Coal and Wood)
    3. Building a high cost, complex and expensive to operate electricity distribution system that is less resilient and with no spare capacity to meet demand surges caused by adverse weather (primarily cold), even mild conditions (no wind and sun) will entail the need for demand management solutions (i.e kick companies and consumers off the grid when demand is too high).
    4. Promoting Hydrogen gas and Ammonia as the fuel of the future while neglecting generation capacity, infrastructure and conversion costs.
    5. Imposing massive costs on consumers to convert their housing and vehicles to the approved technologies.

    The Irish state aims to have 80% of its increased electricity capacity generation from random energy by the end of the decade. It can only do this with natural gas. Ireland is an island at the end of supply lines from Europe whether you are talking about gas pipelines (Scotland/Norway) or electricity inter-connectors to the United Kingdom or France. The countries on the other end of the electricity cable to Ireland are also removing the spare capacity of traditional thermal power generation plants, this means at times there will be no surplus capacity to distribute. Eirgrid have warned us. Another consequence that has been seen this year caused by the massive price spikes is the bankruptcy of a number of electricity suppliers in the UK, while us consumers in Ireland are having those costs passed on, this is driving another government intervention in the market.

    There are also maintenance, financing costs and subsidies of random energy to consider. Electricity can only be sold on the grid when it is demanded, this very often means that Wind and Solar generated output is dumped on the grid at low prices, the thermal plants command premium prices to meet demand surge and there will supposedly be less of it available in future. It may be interesting to note Germany burns more coal to generate electricity than it did when they started their energy transition (energiewende).


    The tourist industry across Europe especially around the Mediterranean is dependent on movement of people from Northern European states for much of it's customer base. All islands (Cyprus, Malta, Canaries, Balearic, Sardinia, Corsica, Sicily) with a developed tourist industry depend on air transport to bring most customers to them, the tourists won't get there quickly by train or bicycle for their annual 2 week vacation.


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    I think if electricity costs hit a level where its cheaper to buy a diesel generator than pay the electric bill , things will get interesting



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    It's funny hardly anyone voted for the greens and they make it into government yet the party with the most votes failed to make the cut.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    It'll be decades before the Greens return to government if ever, Irish Green party is dead but haven't realised it yet, bookies likely taking bets on Gorman and Smyth joining FG



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    That because they ran back to the long grass at the first sign of responsibility



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Ya that’s like saying I’ll cut of my hand so it’ll distract me from the pain of bought my feet caught in bear traps, ie ff/fg and if you think that sink fein will come of the ditch with their hurls and save the country then your as brain dead as the rest of the prols.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,751 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    It's not just the Green party, follow the money, the other major political parties are courting the same urban vote AND they are following the money. Green policy across the EU is set by Germany, the single largest net contributor to the EU. The EU is promoting its own Green new deal and the ECB, IMF and BIS are onboard with "Green" finance (i.e. more debt). Politicians in other parties are not blind to this, they are quite happy to use the Green party as whipping boys when it all goes wrong. The Green party got whipped for keeping FF in power after the 2008 crash, they stayed in Government on instructions from party membership that they ban Stag hunting. 2 election cycles later the public forgot about that, and they picked up the floating urban votes. You know this is nothing to do with the environment when you see Irish banks (Irish banks are government sponsored enterprises since the bailout underwritten by taxpayers) pushing debt using terms like sustainable finance, green bonds and green mortgages, banks are in the business of generating income from debt.



    Did we learn anything from the last bubble burst? We did not and we are now in a Green financial bubble which will eventually burst. Most surprising of all a man who should be able to recognise bubbles economist David McWilliams is promoting this and using his usual plagiarism of labels from elsewhere. The Brits started used "Saudi Arabia of Wind" before he did. Guess what your pensions funds are going into this.

    In the 21st century, Ireland is to renewable energy what 20th century Saudi Arabia was to fossil fuels. The only difference is that unlike the Gulf States, where oil will run out, our energy sources will not deplete. Our island’s wind, wave and tidal potential in generating renewable energy, is unparalleled.


    The Green party in Ireland are just a side show for optics, and they like the other politicians are riding bankers coat tails.

    The Misanthropic Bankers Behind COP26 and the Green New Deal

    When EU President Ursula von der Leyen had stepped into her office, she lost no time attacking China’s Belt and Road Initiative (which is ironically representing a true 21st century New Deal) by saying “some are buying their influence by investing in dependence from ports and roads”… but “we go the European way”. What is the “European way”? Not the development plans of Charles De Gaulle or Konrad Adenauer who envisioned industrial growth and increasing population as positives, but rather a Green New Deal. Von der Leyen then announced that “I want Europe to become the first CO2 neutral continent in the world by 2050! I will put forward a Green New Deal for Europe in my first 100 days in office…”


    <snipped>


    Following the royal decree, the Bank of England and some of the dirtiest banks in the Rothschild-City of London web of finance have promoted “green financial instruments” led by Green Bonds to redirect pension plans and mutual funds towards green projects that no one in their right minds would ever invest in willfully. The Ecological, Social, Governance Index (ESGI) has now been set up across 51% of Germany’s banks including the derivatives-bomb waiting to blow named Deutschebank. Leading bankers supporting the ESGI like Mark Carney of the Bank of England have said that over 6.5 trillion Euros could be mobilized under this new index (which currently accounts for about $160 billion). The creation of these “green bonds” run hand-in-hand with the Bail-in mechanisms which have now been implemented across the trans-Atlantic nations in order to steal trillions of dollars of from pension funds, RRSPs and Mutual funds the next time a bail out is needed to prop up the “too big to fails” which currently sit atop a $1.2 trillion derivatives bubble waiting to blow.


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,067 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ^^^^publicly created money via public bodies has a potentially better chance of succeeding our critically needed environmental changes, its also important to realise, the 08 crash was primarily due to excess private sector created money, i.e. credit, its also important to realise, debt is a critical requirement in doing so, as thats how we create money, i.e. no debt, no money supply



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,751 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    "publicly created money via public bodies has a potentially better chance of succeeding our critically needed environmental changes"

    How is what you say demonstrably true?

    I am pointing out that the current government policies are creating mis-allocation of resources and are decreed by central planning layered on the financial system. The problem starts by decree that electricity generation must happen using random generation sources and that consumers must be penalised for using primary sources of energy for transport, heating and cooking. Each intervention creates it's own problems that can either be addressed by markets (price rises due to allocation of scarce resources) and more intervention by the central planner to address the chaos caused by their previous intervention in the market, the most recent example being the €100 payment to all domestic electricity accounts. This "credit" is being funded from carbon tax and the underlying price rises are directly attributable to the pursuit of policies that increased the demand for natural gas necessary to maintain a functioning grid due to the intermittent nature of random generation sources. How is anyone better off with this? the government are giving us some of our money back minus administration fees as a means of distraction from the underlying cause. The reasons being:

    1. Combined gas cycle turbines are vital to maintain a stable grid due the indeterminacy of random energy supply sources like wind and solar.
    2. Almost every country in the EU is pursuing the same taxation and electrical generation policy and needs more gas.
    3. The trend in recent years has been extended cold Springs (heating and cooking), in 2021 this depleted inventories more than previous years.
    4. In 2021 Summer and early Autumn saw very mild weather conditions across much of Europe that required more gas consumed to maintain electricity generation.
    5. In Autumn the energy suppliers all went to replenish inventories in advance of the European Winter season, most are buying on the spot market and supplies for delivery did not exist, the prices went vertical and several companies went bust, forcing many consumers to find alternative suppliers at a higher price. Many of these companies that went bust claimed to be green energy suppliers.


    Untitled Image


    Remember in the Celtic tiger boom (~15 years), the governments during those decades had the opportunity to reel in the credit bubble circa 2000 and attempted to do this, it had a negative effect on employment and votes (this is where the rise of todays Sinn Fein starts) and they reversed course. It is true that the government did not start the boom, with the benefit of hindsight they actively encouraged it long after it was prudent until it blew up in everyones face.

    Likewise with the Green financial bubble, is the same old policy "jobs for the boys" becomes "green jobs for the boys". The builders doing the housing conversions installing more insulation and heat pumps are "green jobs", car salesmen selling cars with batteries are "green jobs". Taxi and bus drivers with batteries in their vehicles are "green jobs", the installation and maintenance of the wind turbines and solar panels are "green jobs". Administration to oversee the spending those are "green jobs". Of course the banks are lined up with the "green finance" packages subsidised by the ECB. Everyone is a winner, until the bubble bursts . . . then the electricity generation collapses as the subsidies run out.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,067 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ^^^^all money begins its life as debt, taxation is not the creation of money, in the modern world, money is created in the public domain when governments run a deficit, as we re doing now, and from public financial institutions such as public banks etc, but in the modern era of money creation, we have moved more towards private sector created money, we call this form of money credit, which is created by private sector financial institutions, in which we call banks, i.e. money creation is the primary function of banks. as history shows, running economies primarily on credit, generally leads to credit fueled asset bubbles such as credit fueled property booms, i.e. we urgently need to move back towards a more public money supply, in order to create our critically needed assets, but we will also need the help of the private sector money supply, i.e. the credit supply, but we cannot allow it to dominate, as it will more than likely lead to further asset price inflation.....

    oh and again, the 08 crash had little or nothing to do with public debt, again, it was as a result of an over reliance on the private sector money supply, the credit supply, yes the governments at the time did indeed encourage this, as its a critical part of their fundamental political and economic ideologies, as we can yet again see with their retrofit scheme, and other green initiatives, i.e. these are primarily based on the use of the credit supply, which means we the public must take on these debts in order to do so, i.e. increasing our private debts, yet again! this is truly what we havent learned from the 08 crash!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Why are big oil companies not re investing profits back into exploration ventures like they used to do?

    Why are the number offshore oil/gas rigs down to 2004 levels?

    Why are shell investing in offshore wind?

    You keep raving on about the Green agenda devil, wind turbines will slice us all up in or beds, blah blah blah!

    far from fossil fuel and co riding in to save us there paying there share holders huge dividends purely to stop the bottom falling out of the market. When and or if the price goes to $100 dollars a barrel share holders will get massive dividends from the profits that are normal pumped into exploration. Exon and Chevron are pouring billions into carbon capture and storage, if that isn’t pure brass necked greenwashing then nothing else is. They know the game is up and they’ve known for some time.

    Post edited by Banana Republic 1 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Says the cult follower? Whole Irish Green party is home to the sort that used to join the RCC,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    ”Says the cult follower?” Is that a question or a statement ? RCC ?,

    Did you mean this crowd:




  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Its pretty clear that most politicians are not worried anymore about pursuing a green agenda, and I don't mean the Green Party.

    The voters are pretty clear that they need/want/demand action be taken




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Until they realise how much it will financially cost them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,633 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Big oil companies are investing in "green" energy because its lucrative, between carbon credit trading and green subsidies its a very lucrative game.

    Increased dependence on intermittent renewables will only bolster the price of fossil fuels, when the wind stops blowing and the sun stops shining what then? We buy oil, coal and has at ever increasing prices or face the prospect of blackouts. Fossil fuel companies are transitioning to become "energy companies" - supplying the green energy we become so reliant on, and then exploiting us by selling us fossil fuels when the green energy inevitably fails. They dont even have to produce as much oil to make the same profits anymore



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Still cheaper than the alternative, and where its not cheaper, levies and taxation will ensure it will be soon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Even though it's not based on climate change but the protests in Kazakhstan are exactly what you'll get when you jack up petrol prices.

    Now repeat that in places like India, Nigeria, Indonesia, Pakistan, you'll get the exact same reaction. Even the Americans wouldn't tolerate it.

    This whole thing here and around Europe is fruitless. No country with a hint of volatility is going to go down this route. It's not a matter of getting unelected. It's a matter of people storming your presidential palace and hoping there's room on the fleeing helicopter for the missus and kids.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Imagine being the dictator of a Russian puppet state, hold pretend elections where you always win 100% of the vote, have a secret police who make any opposition "disappear" etc etc etc and not understanding why the population are angry when you add a spark to the tinder

    Tis baffling I tells ya




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,079 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Scary how many people thanked this post.

    Edited to add. Just saw this tweet and felt it was appropriate in the context of the above post.

    https://twitter.com/DrHarryThomas/status/1478855901691924485

    Post edited by Tell me how on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    EU backed Ireland on Brexit, any tax deviation from EU norms will be considered a breach of trust, EU tax normalisation will see VRT and Fuel taxes standardised with the rest of Europe, Eastern Europe will bring the averages away down. Irish Green Party will be gone in a few years, the remnants joining FG or entering the priesthood,



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They've been saying that about the GP since its inception and they have only gone from strength to strength around Europe

    Not only that, most of the mainstream parties have adopted a lot of their policies as their own



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    The realisation that the whole Irish Green( name, nothing else) Party is basically a church needs a new roof ,give us your money scam, European environmentalist parties have little or nothing in common with the Irish varient, If they were what they say they are why aren't we seeing huge investment in flood defences and the dredging of all rivers in flood prone areas, instead they are just gathering money into central taxation



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That would be the OPW you are looking for. The minister with responsibility for that is Patrick O'Donovan, a Fine Gael minister



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    So they claim there's a climate crisis and the seas are rising so instead of financing measures to protect people and property they've decided giving the SIMI a dig out is the best response, O Donovan ,where do you even start? Future Darwin award?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    VRT is totally against the EU free trade guidelines and no other country has such a thing. VRT is a tariff and the whole point about free trade amongst members is there are no tarrifs, be they French baguettes or German cars.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Aren't tariffs designed to protect native industries by design. As we don't have anything like that I'm not sure how you can class it as a tariff



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    SIMI keep the politicians sweet, nice deals on new cars, free cars given out for canvassing in exchange for protectionist import rules,



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Harryd225


    The Green Party NI has said that it is disappointed that the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) has ruled the Lee v. the United Kingdom is inadmissible.

    Commenting on the ruling, Green Party NI Deputy Leader Cllr Mal O'Hara, said: "It is disappointing that the ECHR has ruled that this case is inadmissible, meaning that the court has not made a judgement on this case on a technicality.



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