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Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

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    #572
    standardg60
    Registered Users Posts: 4,239 ✭✭✭standardg60


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224446#Comment_118224446

    That's a very telling post Patnor, especially given one of the lowest uptake of vaccination here is amongst our eastern european community.

    We tend to follow the state sanctioned belief here ,for the simple reason that unlike where you came from they are only in power at the behest of the people, and it is a very tenuous position.

    If you think that they are somehow sanctioning a vaccine program knowing something the rest of us don't, i guarantee you are wrong.

    There is no evidence whatsoever to counter the fact that vaccination is saving lives, and that it will continue to save way way more than any deaths that could be ever attributed to it.



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    #573
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224491#Comment_118224491

    But it does grant immunity. It's been show. to reduce infection rates. Studies have shown that they have between 85% and 95% efficacy https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison.

    It's also been shown that in cases where it is not effective, it reduces the chances of severe infection. You're characterising this (dishonestly) as it being just milder. But in reality that means that there is only around 10% as many people who need to be hospitalised.


    You and other anti-vaxx conspiracy theorist keep making this silly and dishonest argument that vaccines are an all or nothing thing.

    The covid vaccines are as effective as other types of vaccines.

    Vaccines don't become not vaccines because conspiracy theorists don't think they work. The covid vaccines are vaccines.


    Patnor was claiming that the vaccines were not vaccines because they were "gene therapy".

    This is of course another lie.



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    #574
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224508#Comment_118224508

    But patnor, your side is the only one lying about stuff. You've been caught out telling lies and keep running away from this fact.

    If you're on the right side, why do you do that?

    Why are the people on your side claiming that the vaccines are dangerous? Why are they claiming that the vaccines are part of a communist take over plot? Why are they claiming that this is all predicted in the bible and preparation for the coming of the antichrist?

    Why do you not challenge any of these claims?



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    #575
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224557#Comment_118224557

    That is very hard to say. Current variant while more contagious is far less dangerous than previous variants. Covid saga pretty much follows and do what other viruses tends to. Since there is no way how you or anyone else can prove how situation here would look like with lower vaccine uptake the only way we can use to compare (with a hefty pinch of salt anyway) is to compare current wave with other developed countries with lower vaccine uptake and compare their number of tests and confirmed cases with ours.

    Number of deaths is incomparable as we let our most vulnerable perish when we recklessly shipped them off to nursing houses at the start of this. Other countries which did not follow our crazy experiment somehow shielded them but they are and will be exposed this winter. We do not have that many of them left after our nursing houses fiasco.

    Talk about eastern european low vaccine uptake is xenophobic and pretty much desperate attempt to shift the blame. Racial and xenophobic arguments were usually the last resort but always working perfectly when there was need to pin blame on someone else.

    People do not want to acknowledge simple fact that last single digit percentage of unvaccinated people remaining are mostly people who cant take the vaccine simply from medical reasons like allergy to some of the components and because quite a lot of them are already immune having recovered from covid in the last 20 months.

    As for your last statement I will wait till stage 3 and 4 will be completed mainly in regard to poor track record of earlier attempts to create any vaccine for corona viruses and in regard of use of new untested technology with mrna vaccines.

    Btw, vaccine effectiveness is actually so poor that it definition had to be changed to reflect that undeniable fact.



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    #576
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224631#Comment_118224631

    And a lot of claims of fact in that that you will never back up. Because you are in all likelihood lying again.


    Please show that "single digit percentage of unvaccinated people remaining are mostly people who cant take the vaccine simply from medical reasons like allergy to some of the components and because quite a lot of them are already immune having recovered from covid in the last 20 months."

    Please show: "vaccine effectiveness is actually so poor that it definition had to be changed to reflect that undeniable fact."

    Please show why all of the studies you've been provided that shows the vaccines are both safe and effective are wrong. Please explain why you believe they are all wrong.


    Since you most likely will ignore this, it might be best if some one else also ask you to supply your evidence so you don't have an excuse to weasel away from it as usual.

    A reminder: twitter and bitchute are not sources.



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    #577
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,482 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224631#Comment_118224631


    I always wondered what baloney was like when it was mentioned in US TV programmes during the 80’s. I now know from your post.

    Playing the racist card when there is no racism is below the belt, and a sign of someone that hasn’t an argument. You don’t like that people who use factual information to counter your baloney and so you resort to saying they are xenophobic.

    Also, the one of the main reasons the delta variant is not killing people is due to so many being vaccinated. Imagine that!



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    #578
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224563#Comment_118224563

    Total nonsense. You are dishonestly misrepresenting the impact of these vaccines. That odd looking site you linked to simply talks about the protection against symptomatic illness and severe disease. This is not immunity.

    Our own Chief Medical Officer concurs, recognising the shortcomings:

    https://twitter.com/CMOIreland/status/1425863411389304834

    If these so called vaccines granted immunity, Tony Holohan would sing it from the rooftops. But instead he is restricted to lauding the fact they are "about 80% effective at preventing symptomatic Covid 19 disease" and "approximately 95% protection against hospitalisation".

    Once again, this is not immunity, and to claim otherwise is simply misinformation.



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    #579
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224777#Comment_118224777

    Lol. But I'm not misrepresenting them. I gave you the figures.


    You are dishonestly conflating "immunity" and "complete 100% prevention of any infection".


    What vaccines in your opinion confer immunity to your standards?

    Do you disagree with any of the figures you just posted?



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    #580
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224777#Comment_118224777

    Why not compare with the effectiveness of the original vaccine, the one where the word vaccine approximately comes from (that's actually from the cowpox that led to the discovery of the smallpox vaccine but that would be for a thread on language instead).


    "Smallpox vaccination provides full immunity for 3 to 5 years and decreasing immunity thereafter. If a person is vaccinated again later, immunity lasts even longer. Historically, the vaccine has been effective in preventing smallpox infection in 95% of those vaccinated. "

    https://www.health.ny.gov/publications/7022/#:~:text=Historically%2C%20the%20vaccine%20has%20been,a%20few%20days%20of%20exposure.


    Seems that the covid vaccines match up pretty well to me.



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    #581
    Hoop66
    Registered Users Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222921#Comment_118222921

    Do you think this sort of response makes you appear a reasoned and genuine debater?



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    #582
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,981 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224777#Comment_118224777

    how many times have you had a tetanus shot?



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    #583
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224508#Comment_118224508

    In my years on this forum I've never come across a user conspiracy or prediction ever turn out to be true, no one else seems to have found one either, which would make it, by definition, a forum full of BS. Which in itself would be more of an accurate observation than an opinion.



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    #584
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224777#Comment_118224777

    These vaccines don't grant immunity. No one is claiming they do.



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    #585
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    I am in England and I have met quite a few through work who will not have a vaccine. Indeed some a personal friends.

    All Asian.

    One Asian lady is in fact a medical rep and has worked in the medical world for nearly 30 years and she has contracted Covid twice- she point blank refuses to have it. She is highly educated and knows the medical world inside out- she is an ardant anti vaxxer.

    Our cleaners who come on a Friday are from Grenada and Ghana- they will not have the vaccine. They are part of God's Squad and God will protect them.



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    #586
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225058#Comment_118225058

    I did say immunity.

    But that was with the assumption and people understood that this was not an absolute statement. In the same post I give direct numbers that weren't 100%,


    Conspiracy theories are nitpicking again cause they can't form an actual point.



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    #587
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225088#Comment_118225088

    Yes but you literally explained what you meant in every sentence afterwards. I've used the word immunity before as well, but some people just seize on it like you automatically mean "lifelong" immunity despite all the context provided.



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    #588
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225098#Comment_118225098

    And of course all the false claims, lies and batshit from conspiracy theorists don't warrant a comment.

    Like Patnor was claiming that the vaccines weren't vaccines but rather gene therapy. Wonder why @schmittel didn't have an issue with that.



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    #589
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225058#Comment_118225058

    King Mob most certainly is.



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    #590
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225303#Comment_118225303

    Lol Did you not read the last three posts?


    Any chance you'll be answering my questions do you? If not, would you mind explaining why you're not?



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    #591
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225303#Comment_118225303

    Did you read anything beyond the word immunity or any of the last posts in this thread?



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    #592
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225336#Comment_118225336

    Sure I read them. You provided figures claiming that vaccines were 85-95% effective in preventing symptomatic disease and sever e infection, but that is not immunity.

    I never posted anything about immunity meaning 100% immunity for life, as far as I am aware no vaccine claims that.

    Are you saying immunity means preventing symptomatic disease and severe infection?



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    #593
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,981 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225361#Comment_118225361
    https://www.hiqa.ie/sites/default/files/2021-06/Duration-of%20protective-immunity-evidence-summary.pdf


    read this and get educated



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    #594
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225361#Comment_118225361

    You clearly didn't read them if you continue to think the poster means lifelong immunity.



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    #595
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    Jesus christ you really need to word lawyer up on this forum.



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    #596
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225361#Comment_118225361

    Sorry, you've dodged my questions. Why?

    Could you answer them now please:

    Which vaccines grant people immunity to the respective diseases?

    Do you agree that the numbers I quoted at you are accurate?


    And if you're saying that no vaccine grants immunity, and since you claimed in a previous post that if it doesn't confer immunity, then it's not a vaccine.

    So therefore you seem to be claiming that vaccines don't exist, which is a pretty new one for these parts...



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    #597
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225437#Comment_118225437

    Only if you dare to question the conspiracy theories though.

    Conspiracy theorists are free to misuse terms and claim things that are entirely wrong and these things are excused.

    Again, Patnor claimed the vaccines weren't vaccines and that they were gene therapy. Among a great many other claims. Not a peep from Schmittel. Why not I wonder...



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    #598
    oisinog
    Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭oisinog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224631#Comment_118224631

    The first mRNA testing on Human cells was done 20 years ago so this is not new or untested technology, this was being tested as a vaccine against Cancer in 2008. DARPA was also conducting research into it for denfence against Pandemics.

    The first Human Clinical trials were in 2013 on the Rabies virus and as I understand there was already research being conducted as using mRna for a flu vaccine which is why tthe companies were able to move so quickly to develop the covid vaccine.

    But sure facts its a new Technology!



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    #599
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 12,950 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225946#Comment_118225946

    Same technology being investigated with a clinical trial at the end of 2022 for Malaria. Imagine controlling that scourge, be a game changer. Have a friend who contracted it while in the Army decades ago at this point and he's still impacted by it. Nasty stuff.


    https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/biontech-aims-develop-mrna-based-malaria-vaccine-2021-07-26/




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    #600
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225946#Comment_118225946

    mRNA advancements are incredible, it possibly opens the door to cancer treatments in the future

    Unfortunately certain people see "RNA" and it looks like "DNA", ergo, "they are messing with our DNA! Our genes!". Literally, that's it, and now there's an entire online quackology movement making money off stupid people who think this is experimental gene whatever.



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    #601
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    The only reason conspiracy theories and anti vaxxers here are claiming this technology is new is because that's what they've been told by the grifters they follow.

    They don't read scientific papers. The haven't a notion about what testing standards are required. Half of them don't even know what vaccines are or how they work. They can just parrot what they're told by folks on twitter and bitchute and pretend to know what they're talking about.

    When they're challenged they do what we see here: ignore, dodge, whinge, run away and lie.



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