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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That analogy makes zero sense. Wanting to be rich is a dream. The demand for buying a one off home is clearly real and happening….as evidenced by the rise in their value, which is showing no sign of slowing. Like it or not, people are trying to buy them in greater numbers than ever



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,365 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    how can anyone think this is nothing but a disaster for the country?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 451 ✭✭MBE220d


    It must be sad for you and a few other donkeys on this thread with the anti rural one-offs houses rants every day. Ye just haven't got a clue about the way things work, a lot of these towns and villages have more people living in them now than they ever did, with a lot of new housing estates built in the last building boom, yet local business still close, why, because they are off to the big towns to do there shopping because it's cheaper.

    But some of the clowns here listen to Coco Ryan and think he's going to save the planet.

    Here is a tip for ye, if ye want to do something for the environment get off your hole and pick up some litter around your beloved city, and let the country people worry about what's happing around the countryside.

    Post edited by MBE220d on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 451 ✭✭MBE220d


    How is it a disaster? how often do you be in the countryside anyway, let me have a guess never unless you have a free travel pass?

    Most of these city folk who moan and winge about the countryside are the first to hop on the Ryanair flight out of the country rather than go down the country, but that's okay for the environment in their book.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


     let the country people worry about what's happing around the countryside.

    Would they be the same country people who isn't on not doing anything to mitigate against emissions from the agri sector?

    Would they be the same country people who insist on spreading any amount of chemicals to maintain monocultures and reduce diversity?

    Would they be the same country people who regularly get caught destroying hedges and other natural habitats and end up in court?

    Would they be the same country people who insist on digging up vast natural ecosystems and using it to heat their homes?

    Honestly, I think the countryside would be a lot better off if some of those country people left the countryside alone



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 451 ✭✭MBE220d


    Would that be the same city folk that drive their kids to school in an SUV.

    Would that be the same city folk who dump their rubbish on side streets rather than pay for bins?

    Would that be the same city folk that won't pay water charges?

    Would that be the same city folk that have bonfires every year as an excuse to burn their rubbish?

    Would that be the same city folk that pack the airport every bank holiday weekend?

    Would that be the same city folk that have millions of street lights?

    The list goes on, so it works both ways so unless we are all going to go back living in caves, no point getting excited about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,975 ✭✭✭buried


    Don't cry for us Argentina. The vast majority of people here in the countryside will be leaving the countryside alone until next April, at least. Not much else out here to do. But Will you be leaving your city centre alone with the hundreds of thousands of buses, shoppers, trains and other diesel guzzling entities well alone till next April as well? Will ya F**k

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 451 ✭✭MBE220d


    Yep, plenty of them types around, living in a shoebox and having to keep their head down when they go outside the door in case they make eye contact with their scumbag neighbour.

    Jealousy is an awful disease.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I never demanded that the city be left to city folk. Culchies are always welcome in the big schmoke 😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 451 ✭✭MBE220d


    I lived in the big smoke for a long time and I would be fairly sure I know more about it than a lot of the natives.



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  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,092 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Possibly some people have more realistic ideas as to what constitutes a 'disaster' beyond; 'OMG, my bicycle had a flat this morning and I had to catch a diesel powered bus, and then when I went to the supermarket, they had discontinued the vegan section! And then later when I watched the news, they didn't cover either incidint, just some stupid stuff about a volcano exploding on an island and thousands dead.'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,751 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Climate change: Farmers drive tractors through Dublin as they protest government plans

    Rather tepid response thus far from Irish farmers, rather interestingly, turning the land over to trees and wolves in future may be not be that far fetched if they can get hold of the funds for a compulsory buyout like one of the ideas currently floating around government in the Netherlands. They may eventually try it under the guise of the EU habitats directive.

    Political animals: Dutch parties stuck over livestock

    For now, the Dutch look set to be the first to need a new policy to tackle this conundrum in their coalition talks. Other countries like Belgium and Germany are also soon likely to have to make hard decisions. Finally, Dutch politicians are beginning to break taboos by airing the prospect of massive cuts in animal numbers, land buyouts and even expropriations — all in a country where farmland is astronomically expensive.


    The matter exploded to the top of the agenda in late September, thanks to a leaked document from the Netherlands Environmental Assessment Agency (PBL) commissioned by the Dutch ministries of agriculture and finance. It revealed several scenarios were drawn up to buy out farmers. In one, buyouts were no longer optional if required, but compulsory.



    Being realistic in Ireland if you take away cows and sheep out, the land will be used for the next most valuable commercial use: A combination of coniferous forest, wind turbines or solar panels. Interesting that these characters how some of the recent visitors to COP26 in their private jets seem to have investments aligned with fake meat: Bezos, Gates back fake meat and dairy made from fungus as next big alt-protein

    In future meat will be reserved for the rich, insects and fake meat for the masses. Mind you truth be known, we already eat a lot of insects. They are in a lot of them mashed up in grains, like wheat, oats and rice already.

    Now where do we get our hands on some McLocust burgers . . . .

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    🤣 I haven't the foggiest what you're on about here. Whatever cross-site conspiracy you think you've discovered Clouseau, you're making a bit of an eejit out of yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,622 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    The EPA will not have to do a lot of research to find the 33 towns and villages that are pumping raw sewerage into the environment daily. Just following their noses will achieve that.

    Just a little hint on the cost of remedial work for septic tanks that may require it and the public purse. The public purse pays by way of general taxation for the construction, operation and maintenance of water and wastewater treatment plants. People who have their own wells and/or septic tanks are taxed exactly the same taxes as those that avail of public water and wastewater treatment even though they do not use them. Not the only services that rural dwellers pay towards through general taxation they do not get any benefit from.



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    dwellers pay towards through general taxation they do not get any benefit from

    That's generally how tax works



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    I'm one of those in favour of water charges in case you think I'm not. With certain caveats that it must remain a publically owned utility, metering isn't used as an indirect taxation feeding ground and that charges are linked to the cost of capital improvements for the infrastructure. But hey ho, here we are.

    Basically, I'm in favour of the 'polluter pays' principle, be it urban, rural or on Rockall.

    Just as I'm in favour of water charges as it is an equitable way to fund waste water improvement projects, septic tank owners should be carrying the can to a far greater extent for remedial works required by the EPA. Let's not pretend that some of the posters here wouldn't spit the dummy in a big way like water charges protesters if that was attempted. Both sets of people need to grow up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,622 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    A bit hypocritical then to complain about the public purse paying grants towards septic tank upgrades when the same purse is paying 100% for all water and wastewater plants construction, operation costs and maintenance is it not?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    A bit of history: Irish Water and the septic tank inspection and charges regime were being rolled out concurrently (we're talking from 2011 onward). The rural one-off lobby were the first to throw their toys out of the pram and were far quicker to get their way with the government to do a u-turn.

    The wheeze at the time was that 'rural Ireland was being unfairly targetted', which was a nonsense as Irish Water and water charges were well in train at that stage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,622 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Hey ho here we are because there was never a believable guarantee that it would remain a public owned utility, and we are still waiting on the referendum on that many years later. We are also here because it was only another tax gathering scam. Even Eurostat recognised that.

    Now if any charges were ring fenced guaranteeing the charges would be used for the purpose stated and show where it was spent, but seeing as it apparently cannot be done for carbon taxes .........



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,622 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Seems you believe politically the ass feel out of the whole plan due to the rural one-off lobby and rural Ireland feeling they were being unfairly targeted.

    Do you remember what I told you earlier on the political consequences of annoying rural voters and the big boys in the political room knowing that ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Well if Irish people aren't mature enough to accept a basic principle as the 'polluter pays' (be they urban or rural), we well deserve our fines from the EU. The only real way major issues to do with the shared environment get tackled is to make offenders feel the bite and the true externalized cost of the way they are living.

    That may offend some of the more delicate posters here, and I realize if the government got seriously tough on a whole manner of these issues, those living in one off rural acardia will feel it in their wallets hard. Part of me feels a degree of sympathy, but then again, reading some of the contributions here, part of me wants them hit as hard as possible - because some blatantly don't give a sh*t, know there's a problem deep down but don't care as long as someone else is carrying the can.

    This is the politics of the 21st century and they best get used to it, because it's a problem that's not going away - Greta Thunberg or no Greta Thunberg.

    And again, I'm not even the most Green person, certainly, none of my colleagues or peers would pick me out as such.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    The Irish voter has never been more urbanized so lets not overstate the influence of what was in yesteryear a far more powerful demographic. I'm familiar with the phenomenon of the 'rural voter' very well, I grew up country (in a village as it happens). Even among the 'rural', values have shifted radically from my parents generation now - it's no longer a monolith and rural Ireland is far less attached to the 'rural economy' than it was even 20 years ago. Where your house is plonked is just one variable in how someone votes, and most young people broadly accept that the one-off is a planning relic that is probably never coming back in any significant way.

    I honestly think governments have been needlessly weak knee'd in handling some critical rural issues where there is policy consensus like urban generated one-offs. Yes, some seats get picked off by crazies like Mattie McGrath, but as stated, there is cross-party broad consensus in the major parties on this after many years (with the exception of the likes of O'Cuiv in FF).



  • Posts: 15,362 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,092 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    When the polluter is a Council, do the tax payers get their money back in this polluter pays principle of yours, or is it situation normal, they get to be do as they like while the only whipping boy is the rural home owners you so hate, several of which near me work in the public sector, ironically?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,622 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You would appear to have a very short memory and there has been no major change in voting demographics in the last 5 years.

    The 2011 - 20016 coalition government was elected with 113 seats. In 2016 those two parties were reduced to 57 seats. a loss of 56 seats. That is not some ancient history. It is just 5 years ago and it wasn`t Mattie McGrath that won all of those seats. You have acknowledged that the rural voter was the driving force behind that political massacre (one that even the Green`s could see coming where Ryan did not support the proposed water charges), so rather than showing they were a force to be reckoned with in ancient Irish political history, it was just 5 years ago that they really showed what awaits you if you annoy them.

    You may look upon 5 years as ancient history, but as I said to you already, the big boys and girls in political rooms do not. Broad party consensus can quickly become a narrow plank when you are pushed out there on your own staring into the abyss while your broad consensus is walking away whistling to drown out your screams.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 997 ✭✭✭iColdFusion


    Its not even a rural thing these days, any politician even slightly suggesting they want to curtail housing, reduce housing availability or saying anything other than "lets build more houses" is pretty much signing their own resignation letter. Its not rocket science to foresee any attempt to push people out of one off rural housing and into cities will only reduce availability of houses and increase prices in those areas.

    The argument that rural people should just build their houses in the local village holds no water either, there are no sites available for one off builds in local villages so that solution is reliant on property developers who only want to build in high volumes and maximise profits.

    The solution to this would be for local councils to purchase agri land on the boundary of each major town, re-zone it for residential and put in the basic infrastructure and sell them as affordable serviced sites at cost price, its a great solution as it takes all the hassle of building & finance away from the councils and future proofs the area, they might have a field capable of 10 sites but there is only demand for 3 this year, 2 next year etc into the future, as long as you leave the unused sites as green area and build from the front the town keeps growing naturally but also stick a use it or lose it clause on the sites so the council gets it back if you haven't built on it in 3 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    The rural voter didn't 'drive that political massacre'. The big news story was and is FF falling off a cliff in urban areas, SF hoovering that up. FF are almost completely exiled form Dublin for instance.

    If anything the 'rural vote' has shown itself not to be a monolith. Older voters are creatures of habit and vote as they always have done. Younger voters are as diverse as any you care to mention. Holly Cairns in West Cork, SF's first TD in Tipperary (a convervative constituency). Not a revolution exactly but the map is changing generationally, and the change isn't a 'rural bloc' vote.

    Younger voters in rural areas ain't wearing wellies and preoccupied with farm payments. They political values that are very different from those of their parents and single issue candidates throwing a strop about one off housing will find them hard to pick off.

    I'm not a Green voter (low preference possibly) btw.

    Big / boy girl opinion



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,622 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    You appear to be confused here between the Water Framework Directive and the polluter pays principle.

    Phil Hogan when in charge of the water charges fiasco tried a few bully boy tactics. One being the threat you favour of E.U. fines for none compliance. He even attempted to drag the then European Commissioner Vella into that, but other than a few very vague muttering on the subject the commissioner was very vague. The reason for that became clear shortly afterwards.

    Has it ever crossed your mind why now 5 years after water charges being scrapped the E.U. have not issued any fines ?

    Your mention of you being from a rural village reminded of a story I heard a few years ago. In Mayo there was a rural community general meeting being held to discuss the problems in the area. For every problem there was this lad sitting in the front row who had the answer to every problem. All of them recognised as financially impractical by the rest of the attendees from mutterings and eyerolls. One lad eventually turned to his older companion and asked "Who is this lad who thinks he is such an expert on our problems that he knows all the answers" ? The reply was "He`s a lad that went away, and now he is back". The inference being that he knew sweet F A before he left and it`s clear that in the time he has been gone he learned sweet F A.



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