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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    I can't say if he has, he has had a bad run of injuries and that hasn't helped. Keenan certainly grabbed his chance when he got it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    For the World Cup if you read the post. That 2 years away



  • Posts: 2,519 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think this is a huge point, and absolutely true.

    Hard to overemphasise how different players can look when they're playing in a system and a style of play that suits their strengths.

    Numerous examples of this recently, but most recently you look at JGP, Conway, Lowe etc in an Irish shirt, or even guys like Ross Byrne (albeit usually against poorer opposition) in a Leinster shirt. Similar things in the past for guys like Joey Carbery at 10 for Leinster or Ian Madigan before him; these guys looked like world beaters at 10 behind dominant packs with loads of go-forward ball and multiple options around them to attack.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 891 ✭✭✭Zeugnis


    I did read your post, thank you for your polite response. The fact that there is two years between now and the World Cup does not explain how Flannery and Crowley, sitting behind Joey and Ben Healy, are going to get the minutes that would allow them to become competitors for this position.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,826 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    crowley had an opportunity to move this summer, he chose to stay... knowing he was behind Carbery and Healy

    so that particular question is answered.

    as for Jake Flannery, hes only 8 months out of the academy and has the grand total of 4 senior munster caps. its a bit early for him to be demanding game time or hes off. maybe in a couple of years time of his performances demand so.... but right now hes looking at making the best of his Munster A time



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 891 ✭✭✭Zeugnis


    I take your points, but think that as the consequences of the reduced fixture schedule for the provinces become clearer, many players are going to have to reassess where they can realistically play first team rugby, a prerequisite to being part of the Ireland equation. Crowley's rejection of O'Gara's overtures might have been heartening to the Munster faithful, but I'm not sure it was a good idea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    Ask anyone at the start of 2009 who was going to be the starting 10 in the 2011 WC and I doubt many would have mentioned Sexton in the picture.

    I have said it before, it is up to one of those players to give the performance that they jump the queue. That can he any of the players mentioned.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,826 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    i agree 100% that crowley should have gone. a year in LARog working under ROG, West etc could have been great for his development.

    however inexperienced players going looking for new suitors abroad do not command a high salary, or many options. A player needs to have a decent showing at senior level to have much of a choice.

    look at Noel Reid, left leinster with 120 caps, 1 ireland cap, and got a one year contract with bottom of the barrel Leister before shipping to french bottom feeders Agen

    A young player needs to do exactly what Crowley was offered, and what Beirne, Regan etc did. Go abroad and learn the trade before returning home to a decent salaried contract



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    The IRFU and Munster stepped in and blocked the deal. Wasn't Crowley also given a run with the 7s? something had to be promised in terms of game time to keep him in the loop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,978 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I thought ROG wrote in his own article that Crowley himself turned him down, no? I don't remember it being reported that the deal was blocked?



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  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,826 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    really?? first ive heard if that

    ROG has said on OTB that crowley turned him down



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,943 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Crowley may well squeeze his way into the Munster starting team, He has the size / physicality that Joey lacks and the running game that Healy has yet to seriously show.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,978 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    From ROG's article at the time:

    "I know all this because he has turned down the chance to sign for La Rochelle, with whom I am familiar."

    "But he has now decided to stick with the team he loves and grew up supporting. He is backing himself to make it at Munster. He is doing whatever he can to get what he wants."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    Sorry I thought I heard at the time that both Munster & IRFU stepped in to give assurance and get him to stay in Ireland. I can't for life of me remember. I know ROG said he was very positive he would sign and then suddenly Crowley changed his mind.

    Personally I think 1-2 years in France with ROG would have been an incredible experience for the guy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,943 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Yes and he was the only player on the pitch to come out of it looking good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Harry Byrne became third choice while sitting behind Sexton and Ross. So it is entirely possible, if they show enough in the game time they get. Which pretty much reflects the dire state of our options at 10.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 780 ✭✭✭dubal


    Anyone hear if the Argentina match could be affected by our new mini lockdown.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Yes, I read on Twitter that the Argies are boycotting the game if they can't get a lock-in in Coppers on Sunday night.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Crowley and Flannery are in a very tough place! Carberry is an international and 1st choice at Munster and Healy is the back up. It will be tougher for them as there's less games this season. They should get minutes in S.A during the upcoming tour. But, it's likely that they will see very little time! If Healy travels, he will start at least 1 match.

    I think a move to another province on a loan basis would help. Ulster or Connacht would be ideal, imo.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    They are 21 and 22 and both should get game time in South africa. You'd imagine they will have AIL and then more munster game time during the interpros over Xmas especially with a 6 day turnaround before the away connacht game and then more game time during the matches on the 6 nations bye weeks.

    Loaning them out to ulster with burns ,lowry and madigan who won't be called up to the irish squad and connacht with carty (barring injury) and Fitzgerald who won't be called up is not really the solution.. they aren't guaranteed any more game time there..

    Let them develope with munster for the rest of the year. I'd imagine there could be a lot of movement in the outhalf position in Ireland in the next 8 months.

    To the best of my knowledge joey carberry, Burns, R Byrne, Healy ,fitzgerald and Carty (h byrne too maybe) are all due for contract negotiations this season. I'd be very suprised if all those players stay with their current clubs. Once one confirms a move it could start a domino effect.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 43,826 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    I'd be highly surprised if luke carty isn't into his brothers ear about a move west.

    If Jack could broker a 100k move (which would have to include external earnings) it might be very attractive for him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    Of the players you have mentioned I think the biggest risk to go is Carty. He is 30 now, it would be his last big contract and in reality his chances of playing for Ireland are reducing. Carbery is starting for Munster, he is in line to replace Sexton for Ireland and the last thing he needs after loads of injuries is move overseas. R Byrne is more or less the number 1 for Leinser, Sexton will hardly play going forward and finish up in next 1-2 years so he will see himself taking completely over. If he was going to move it would have been years ago.

    Burns is the starting 10 for Ulster

    Healy is the backup 10 for Munster and will give himself a good chance to push Carbery to 15

    Fitzgerald I doubt would push many offers plus he is backup in Connacht and as mentioned Carty will probably move



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Don’t see why Carty would leave tbh. Realistically he has a good chance of going to a second World Cup, regardless of what most people here think.

    sexton is at an age where you can’t guarantee his fitness and will have to be looked after minutes wise. Carberys injury record has shown nothing to say he’ll be fit in two years time. his form is also questionable.

    carty, Burns and R Byrne could all be considered similar levels but as Carty has been called up ahead of the other two, would suggest he’s top of that picking order. Six nations time will show a lot in this regard.

    Then you have H Byrne, Crowley, flannery and healy. By Healy, none of these have the minutes at senior level to suggest they are anywhere near test standard. With the URC schedule not exactly being friendly to promoting younger players, they have a very fine time frame to impress before World Cup warm up games. Obviously in an ideal world two of these plays could really push on for the rest of the season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan


    Jamison Gibson Park has been ruled out of the final game of the Autumns Nations Series against Argentina at the Aviva Stadium this coming Sunday.

    Gibson Park has a thigh injury and Luke McGrath has been called into the squad to provide additional scrum-half cover.

    James Ryan will take on the captain’s role in the absence ​​of the injured Johnny Sexton.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    If they want to continue the current game plan Casey needs to start



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,987 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Ryan starting might mean we're looking at a pretty strong line-up rather than wholesale changes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    Similar to the Carty inclusion, I would have preferred to maybe see a Doak into the squad for the couple of days.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭b.gud



    While I agree with your point that Carty is at a stage in his career where a big money offer would tempt him, going by this insight from Muldoon in 2010 it would probably need to be a good bit more than 100k to make him think seriously about it.



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