Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

15-11-2021 11:18AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168140#Comment_118168140

I'm a bit worried about Joey after that game to be honest. He got turned around a few times in defence which is starting to become characteristic of him.

Slotting those kicks is massive though, his confidence should be brimming after that performance.

RugbyLover123 · 15-11-2021 11:19AM

Don’t see what you gain/learn by starting Murray or Herring.

Injuries aside, I’d only be bringing in Sheehan, Coombes, Carberry & Balacoune.

No point playing a patched together team that’s never played together before. Minutes for Carberry at 10, in a settled team/system against decent opposition should be the priority for this game.

Former Former Former · 15-11-2021 11:27AM

I think we'll learn a lot about Carbery this weekend, he's not going to get an armchair ride from the forwards against Argentina by any stretch and it's likely to be a backline that has never played together before.

If he can perform reasonably well on Sunday, I think we'll all feel better about the future.

Be great to see H Byrne get 20 mins too.

I assume most of those who started the first two matches will sit this one, so maybe;

Healy Herring Bealham

Henderson Baird

Beirne Coombes POM

Murray Carbery

Earls Frawley McCloskey Baloucoune

Zebo

Sheehan, Kilcoyne, TOT, Dillane, Timoney, Casey, Byrne, Hume

For a team with 14 changes, that's still a reasonably seasoned lineup.

(Don't know what Henshaw's status is?)

starkid · 15-11-2021 11:54AM

i mean Murray has gone from being Lions captain to being genuinely upsurped as number 1. I think AF will show him some loyalty and give him a game.

It wouldn't be my choice, i'd back Casey. But i think Earls, POM, Murray will get the nod. I can see the merit in it. That would still be my main fear though, we head into the World Cup without genuinely testing some lads. When Sexton got injured i think we all had a bad feeling. Going into the WC with a 38 year old version would be negligent.

I genuinely want to see Baloucoune in there. i still think the one thing we are missing is a bit of out and out zip.

After that you need to give Joey the game. I feel sorry for the lad. the injuries ruined his career. i hope he can salvage it but the pressure Munster fans are putting on him is getting ridiculous. With two youngsters coming up behind him, it doesn't bode well if he plays poorly against Argentina.

starkid · 15-11-2021 11:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168352#Comment_118168352

yeah i think that has to be the side. If Henshaw is fit he probably slots back in. You get the monkey off your back with Zebo if you play him and dampen down some of the hype etc. If he plays a middling match, AF can sort of park all that.

you give some of the older lads who have been clearly upsurped some gametime to keep all onside.

A win playing that side, and 3 out of 3 means Farrell has earned all the plaudits. Its been a long road to here, but its finally coming together. and we have options that are still outside the squad. Leavy perhaps, Stockdale, Carty a few others.

I would like to see Dillane get a spot. another guy i feel sorry for and i feel he wasn't treated all so well in the past with the way he was bombed out of the squad in what must have been a traumatic time for him. he's been training canon fodder for some time now.

AbusesToilets · 15-11-2021 12:13PM

Start the front row bench, Sheehan to start. Beirne and Dillane/ Baird. Coombes in if he's fit, and Timoney. Casey and Carbery. Frawley and Henshaw if he's fit. Balacoune. Hume and Zebo on the bench.

aloooof · 15-11-2021 12:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168510#Comment_118168510

"After that you need to give Joey the game. I feel sorry for the lad. the injuries ruined his career. i hope he can salvage it but the pressure Munster fans are putting on him is getting ridiculous. With two youngsters coming up behind him, it doesn't bode well if he plays poorly against Argentina."

What exactly are Munster fans doing wrong here, exactly??

irelandrover · 15-11-2021 12:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168651#Comment_118168651

why give him the attention he wants?

15-11-2021 12:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168352#Comment_118168352

We really need to find some depth at Loosehead. First choice front row has the potential to be one of the best in the world, and I think Bealham has come on hugely in recent years - but surely Healy is going to struggle to be an option in 2023?

If Coombes was just unwell then I'd say we will see him this week and given how the backrow has gone the last two games I'd say he will be looking to have a monster performance.

Agree with your second row and that backrow also makes sense. Murray will start to help Carbery manage things, I'm not sure we'll see that much rotation in midfield / back three but I wouldn't be surprised either. I could see Aki playing with Henshaw if the latter is back fit as both haven't loads of rugby due to the Lions / injury.

I'm undecided on hooker also but I think Herring the more likely and on balance correct choice.

starkid · 15-11-2021 12:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168651#Comment_118168651

its a common theme with Munster outhalves. at this stage its just getting stupid. take a look at munsterfans if you think i'm overstating things. Joey's getting bashed even on here. he's had a huge time out.

aloooof · 15-11-2021 01:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168761#Comment_118168761

You're criticising Munster fans for criticising a player who's paying poorly. Or are we not supposed to criticise poor performances??

I've defended him as much as anyone on here, given how long he was out for. But he's back since February now and has a full pre-season under his belt. He needs to start stringing some performances together.

Munster fans more than anyone want him back to his best.

aloooof · 15-11-2021 01:17PM

Hadn't realised this, but this makes our 2021 look really positive:

https://twitter.com/TheLooseH/status/1459588082638983174

Bazzo · 15-11-2021 02:07PM

Murray Kinsella saying Sexton has been ruled out for 4-6 weeks with a knee injury and Jack Carty has been called up replace him.

15-11-2021 02:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169268#Comment_118169268

Coombes also recovered apparently, really hope he at least makes the bench this weekend.

b.gud · 15-11-2021 02:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169268#Comment_118169268

Confirmed by the IRFU https://www.irishrugby.ie/2021/11/15/sexton-ruled-out-as-carty-joins-squad-ahead-of-pumas-fixture/

sydthebeat · 15-11-2021 02:42PM

i see Farrell retaining Keenan this weekend.

most of Argentina's best attacking play comes off the boot, whether bombs or grubbers through ether carreras or sanchez ....... and theres no obvious pretender to the 15 jersey currently.

Zebo is the next off the rank but we have never seen him in this irish system, so it would be a big gamble to play him from the start.

a back 3 of balacoune, zebo and keenan would be my pick.

so a back like of Murray, Carbery, Hume, Ringrose (or henshaw), balacoune, Zebo , kennan.. with a bench of Casey, H Byrne and Earls

RichieRich_89 · 15-11-2021 02:42PM

Think I'd go for:

Porter
Kelleher
Bealham
Beirne
Henderson
Doris
van der Flier
Conan
Gibson-Park
Byrne
Lowe
Henshaw
Hume
Baloucoune
Keenan
Sheehan
Kilcoyne
Furlong
Baird
Coombes
Murray
Frawley
Zebo

15-11-2021 02:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169268#Comment_118169268

Wouldn't wish harm on anyone but it's time to move on. Blessing in disguise.

sydthebeat · 15-11-2021 02:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169545#Comment_118169545

how is sexton being out for 4-6 weeks in anyway a chance to move on?

ireland have one more game for the next 3 months, and sexton is unlikely to have played in it regardless

Blue4u · 15-11-2021 03:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169545#Comment_118169545

Why is it time to move on? he had another incredible game and was by a distance the best 10 on the pitch across both teams.

Not sure why they are calling up Carty, he is clearly not in the picture and they would be better bringing in Healy or some of the other young lads

15-11-2021 03:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169562#Comment_118169562

Yeah good point. I guess I'm wondering is there a chance Sexton takes an injury and doesn't come back from it. He's not getting any yournger.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169588#Comment_118169588

If we have any grand designs on the world cup, we need to keep trying any of those players you mentioned. I don't want to be relying on a 38 year old outhalf.

EachSmallChime · 15-11-2021 03:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169588#Comment_118169588

The fact he is called up means he definitely is still in the picture and that the decision to leave him out for Harry Byrne was probably closer than we guessed.

And don't bring up the consistency muck about Jack again because the exact same can be said about any of the other out halves (bar Sexton). For better or worse, Carty is very much in the mix.

15-11-2021 03:30PM

I don't think there's much benefit at all to changing most of the team for next week. It should be a select few changes for them to get proper game time in a near first choice 15. Changing 10 or 11 players just ends up being a mess

Blue4u · 15-11-2021 04:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169775#Comment_118169775

Yes don't mention Carty issues, we should just ignore them. 😂

We are in the AI's and we should be trying out new players. If Sexton is dropped at the end of the season Carty will not be in the mix to replace him and that is the truth. So we should be looking at the players who potentially can, Healy etc

It's a waste of a spot in my eyes. If Carty wasn't good enough to make the squad in the first place they should have used the spot to give someone else experience

Podge_irl · 15-11-2021 04:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169620#Comment_118169620

I don't want to be relying on someone worse than a 38-year old flyhalf, but we are where we are.

It will make little practical difference to Ireland. Leinster can manage without him.

Dubinusa · 15-11-2021 05:05PM

Ye all have forgot Larmour? I reckon he starts this week.

Argentina will be a good test, so it's a good shout to get new lads up to speed.

I hope HB starts! But, Carberry most likely will.

Sexton has been flying! I want to see another 10 push past him, but he's clearly the best option!

Zebo will be involved. AF needs to give us something to piss and moan about!

ionadnapóca · 15-11-2021 05:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118168281#Comment_118168281

I didn't see anything that would concern me v NZ. I have to say the only time i saw him "turned around in defence" is when he had to cover across Havili after he broke free from POM tackle and stepped Carbery and then Ringrose.

He is never going to be a Sexton defensively, but he can tackle (e.g. Havili full bore first phase off scrum).

I feel he has proven his pedigree whenever he's been asked. From day one when he came off the bench on his debut v NZ in 2016, to coming off the bench (twice) in Twickenham in 2018 and again coming off the bench in Edinburgh in 2019, he has never let the side down.

His only starting appearances against "Tier 1" was in Aus in 2018 (Ireland were winning until replaced by Sexton) and Japan in the summer.

I would have started him in all these games and i would hold no fear of him getting a long overdue run at 10.

RichieRich_89 · 15-11-2021 05:27PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170391#Comment_118170391

Larmour:

doesn't have a left foot like Lowe or Zebo or Stockdale, which they seem to be looking for in the left wing
isn't as good a defender on the right wing as Conway and Baloucoune
isn't a natural playmaker fullback like Keenan and Zebo, and is unreliable under the high ball

He's a talented player, but it's hard to see where he fits in exactly. Maybe on the bench.

EachSmallChime · 15-11-2021 05:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170187#Comment_118170187

"Carty will not be in the mix to replace him and that is the truth"

Apparently, it's not the truth, despite what you or I think about him. If Farrell called him up, he's in the mix.

My point is not to ignore Carty issues, it's to put them in the context of out half competition. The same criticism of not being consistent can be leveled at Carbery, Healy, Burns and R.Byrne (H.Byrne hasn't played enough to even be criticized).

Don't get me wrong, I think it's mixed messages not to give Carbery and H.Byrne minutes against Argentina, so we won't see Carty (unless Byrne was **** in training). But until someone else puts in a serious game (and I hope Joey does on Sunday) then Carty is definitely still in the mix with some promising young lads.

stephen_n · 15-11-2021 05:35PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170543#Comment_118170543

It could be leveled at Ross Byrne, if you had never seen him play and knew nothing about him. Other than that, no you couldn’t say he has any issues with consistency. He is too slow and offers no gain line threat. That’s a very different issue though.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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