Kidnapped female French jogger made up whole thing...

What are you talking about?

I said a comment that is woman hatey has indeed come up: "Women lying and stirring up sht which goes on to get men beaten/imprisoned/killed/executed is about as old a story as you can find.

its discovery of the wheel old".

Exactly. It's grim and depressing if a woman or girl alleges she has been sexually assaulted or raped and people suspect her of lying because there is a minority of devious women. Imagine the hurt of being sexually assaulted and reading such poisonous stuff. I don't know how it isn't indicative of a dodgy attitude to women to see us all as potential liars out to ruin a man's life for no reason. It's like me condemning all men because of the behaviour of a minority of people who happen to be male. Very simplistic stuff. And there are hardline feminists who do hate all men because of the behaviour of a minority, which the same folk would (correctly) find objectionable but have no qualms applying the same logic to all women.

In this case though, it has been evidenced that the woman was pulling a sick, scummy stunt so of course there aren't people saying the critics of her are woman haters. I don't know what the point of such commentary is, other than "gotcha!"

Exactly. It's grim and depressing if a woman or girl alleges she has been sexually assaulted or raped and people suspect her of lying because there is a minority of devious women. Imagine the hurt of being sexually assaulted and reading such poisonous stuff. I don't know how it isn't indicative of a dodgy attitude to women to see us all as potential liars out to ruin a man's life for no reason.

There's a lot of truth there but you have to consider real life experience. Most men have had relationships (short or longer) with women who were manipulative, or outright lied to them. Get a group of middle aged single men together, ask the question about dodgy women in their past, and you'll get a wide range of accounts of women who mistreated them in one way or another. The assumption is that this kind of behavior is rare.. but it's not really all that rare. That's not to say that most men would consider it a basis for judging all other women they meet, but the experience tends to remain with them all the same. There tends to be the characteristic difference between the genders that men are essentially direct in expressing themselves, but women are the opposite. Yes, it's a stereotype, but it's a stereotype that has been reinforced many times for most people.

Just as you're projecting the feelings/experiences of the minority of women who were abused on to the majority, and expecting those without those experiences, to somehow understand and appreciate them. On the one had you're expecting women to be treated differently., and at the same time, expecting all women to appreciate in the same way.

It's like me condemning all men because of the behaviour of a minority of people who happen to be male. Very simplistic stuff. And there are hardline feminists who do hate all men because of the behaviour of a minority, which the same folk would (correctly) find objectionable but have no qualms applying the same logic to all women.

Except that's not the case, since women are perceived in society to be more likely than men to be victims. Invariably, when men are considered to be victims, they're held responsible for allowing it to happen to them. However, for women, they're expected to be more vulnerable and victim blaming is a serious no no. There are big differences in how the genders are treated when things go wrong...

As for the simplistic stuff of blaming all men.. yes, it is simplistic, but the simplistic appeals to many people. The differences in physical strength between men and women reinforces that belief. But more importantly, the expectation that women will be victims, whereas men are responsible, changes the dynamic, so that the genders are not treated equally.

In this case though, it has been evidenced that the woman was pulling a sick, scummy stunt so of course there aren't people saying the critics of her are woman haters. I don't know what the point of such commentary is, other than "gotcha!

Just on this thread, though. Which is why it's such a surprise to the posters here. On other threads, there would be a rush of posters wanting to find excuses for her behavior.

Most men have had relationships with such women? That's a hell of a statement. And based on nothing other than your personal perspective, which can't be deemed the big picture.

Then again, maybe most people HAVE had an experience of being with a sh1tty partner - but male or female.

Where am I "projecting the feelings/experiences of the minority of women"?

And whether the simplistic appeals or not, it's still dumb and lacking critical thinking.

I didn't say anything about my personal perspective on relationships actually. I surmised in response to your claim that maybe most people have been in a relationship with a toxic person, male or female. Women don't have the monopoly on sh1tty behaviour.

I didn't project anything on anyone. I said it must be hurtful for those who have experienced sexual assault not to be believed. I think it's weird to take exception to such a comment.

I actually have reservations about #metoo though - probably for the same reasons that you have. Such a movement can cause scope for a free-for-all and does a disservice to those who actually have been assaulted.

If you don't have some insight into a particular incident it's probably best to suspend judgement.

What kind of insight would that be? As for judgment, I'll assume you meant expressing an opinion on the topic.

In any case, I disagree. It's the internet, and we're all here because we like to discuss a wide variety of topics, many of which we won't have any direct personal experience of ourselves. To just stay quiet limits our ability to grow in both terms of knowledge, and the appreciation of other viewpoints, besides the testing of our own views.

I'd say to everyone to speak their mind, be tested, and learn from the experience.

I still don't understand why you take exception to me saying you can't hold up personal perspective - and bias - as evidence of the bigger picture. Anecdotes are not data.

What's the issue with saying not being believed must be hurtful for assault victims?

haha... because you seemed to believe your own were valid... before you objected to my own statement, you expressed your own, expecting others to accept them... so yeah, I tend to notice double standards being applied.

What's the issue with saying not being believed must be hurtful for assault victims?

what's the deal with changing what I objected to? You've done this a few times now. I didn't mention it before because it didn't really matter, but you've decided to run with it.

Also, look back to my original objection, as I explained why I was objecting.

This is going nowhere, and I have no interest in fighting the shifting of goalposts.

I'm genuinely not moving the goalposts. I think one of us has gotten the wrong end of the stick.

But anyway, yeah she's a dangerous weapon and thankfully it hasn't gone any further so that lives can't be ruined. She deserves a hefty sanction.