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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    I hadnt heard any of the talk /hype about sheehan, who was rating him so highly?


    I know some people are getting an awful twist in the knickers because im asking a question about a leinster player but before last weekend i had never heard of the guy and apparently thats akin to a crime in these parts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    Ah Jesus lads. As much as I hate the term "shiny new toy syndrome", I think theres a bit of it here.

    The set piece is integral to the modern game - and Sheehan last season had games where he could have two or three miscues in the lineout during a game (some will say he doesn't have lineout issues and you're free to disagree - but my assessment based of viewing him is he's still shaky - has a miss v Japan the last day which we missed because TV was showing a replay too although fault could've been elsewhere). I don't think it's an absurd claim to be worried about his experience after one cap for a game against THE BLOODY ALL BLACKS.

    There's no denying he's a beast, with serious impact contributions - but it's far from crazy to be having question marks over his potential inclusion in the bench. I'd say something if Herring was a pure set piece hooker,but he's plenty dynamic in his own right - strong carrier with a serious jackalling game and loads of breakdown work every game. With the lineout upside.

    Even outside of a performance perspective, if Sheehan plays and screws up tomorrow, it could be confidence shattering from a player development point of view. I don't see the benefit in throwing him in off the deep end without some interpro/Champions Cup time. If he shows his worth over the next period, then by all means fire away in the 6N (or let him start the Argentina game where the stakes aren't as high).

    Lawrence says a lot of stupid ****, but this isn't one of those occasions. He has a point here.

    And if you're trying to turn this into a provincial thing, kindly grow up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Your unable to comprehend the difference between a complaint and a question.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    We beat them last time in the aviva? That will be news to a lot of people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,212 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    In fairness one person beside Laurence made one provincial comment, Laurence made a couple making sure that this looks like it was provincial. His question was answered by several people and he kept probing looking for the angle he really wanted.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,010 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    We did. Last time we played them in the Aviva was the 2018 game.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,495 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    They put us right back in our box in Japan. NZ fans on here confirmed last week that France is the big one on this tour and Ireland is a secondary consideration.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,323 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Basically he's an exceptionally talented 23 year old hooker (higher ceiling than Kelleher IMO) and will probably surpass him very soon.

    6'3 and 110kg so a bit of a physical monster. Extremely quick, extremely powerful, solid set piece and scores a rake of tries (9 in 17 games for Leinster)

    World class potential, the likes of which you don't leave out because he's a bit inexperienced



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    nobody answered the question, nobody referenced his ability in games, his stats or impact, until his mistakes and contribution in the japan game were mentioned and that he is big.

    As i said i dont know anything about the guy, which is reasonable because he has very few caps and instead of discussing the player what came back was “red glasses” and other nonsense.


    This guy could start at the weekend so surely hes up for discussion?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,010 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    It's not true that nobody answered the question. You asked "is he possibly in because he is that good, or because we have a lot of injuries?"

    I count at least 4 posters who gave some variation of "it's cos he's that good".



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  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,373 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    If hes named on the bench, and thats a big IF, that means Paul O Connell is happy enough with his abilities at set piece time to face New Zealand.

    most people who've seen him play often know his ability around the park, and in this factor he dominates Herring.

    for this who havent watched him play a lot, sit back and enjoy. not only has he the power game to skittle defenders, but hes deceptively fast and has great feet for such a big guy.

    Kelleher and Sheahan are arguably our best two hookers in Ireland currently. Herring i would argue is more consistent at the line out, but is less effective around the pitch.

    Kelleher and Sheahan could be out 2 / 16 for the next decade



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,081 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    NZ fans on here confirmed last week that France is the big one on this tour and Ireland is a secondary consideration.

    I guess that explains this third-string side. Journeymen and rookies in equal measure. We're going to hockey them.

    Barrett starts for full strength New Zealand side (rte.ie)

    Jordie Barrett, Will Jordan, Rieko Ioane, Anton Lienert-Brown, Sevu Reece, Beauden Barrett, TJ Perenara, Ardie Savea, Dalton Papalii, Ethan Blackadder, Sam Whitelock (capt.), Brodie Retallick, Nepo Laulala, Codie Taylor, Joe Moody.

    Replacements: Dane Coles, Karl Tu'inukuafe, Tyrel Lomax, Tupou Vaa’i, Akira Ioane, Finlay Christie, Richie Mo’unga, David Havili.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    The biggest question over Sheehan vs Herring is what they're going to bring.

    While a young hookers set piece ability is overly criticised by some people it is a factor. And it's something Rob Herring is peerless at on this island at present. His throwing from touch is top notch and dependable. Around the park he wont let you down defensively and that's about as much as I can say he offers conclusively against the very best.

    However, against the All Blacks you cannot hope to ride out the last 20 and let them come at you. Because they'll come at you in spades and eventually find a way in. It's inevitable.

    Will Dan Sheehan fit the game plan of bringing it to the All Blacks in the last 20, stretch them out wide, win the collisions and beat them at their own game? He definitely will add more in that facet than Herring regardless of experience etc. He is a far superior athlete.

    Tough call for Farrell to be honest. There's huge merit in what both of them bring. I'm sure glad I don't pick the team



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Blue4u


    Keith Wood etc have all discussed him over the last 12 months. The conversations in the media are going on nearly 2 years now at least



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    looking good in the Pro14 playing with the Best team in the league is one thing.

    Doing it against NZ is an entirely different prospect, he has the advantage of being an unknown quantity for opposition, but 25 minutes against a terrible and badly beaten Japanese side is the extent of his international experience and that counts for very very little.

    Im all for giving young lads a chance, but this is a massive massive step up for any player with such few caps.

    Hopefully he swims if selected not sinks because we need players of his age profile coming into the squad and contributing on match days



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,373 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Pro14 is completely meaningless in getting selected for a test team, you are a fool if you think it is.

    It gets you into the training camps, and its what happens in the training camps that get you into the test squad. thats where the coaches get to see if the player can do whats asked of them

    again, if hes named, it means the coaches think hes good enough.

    for us fans, that should be enough



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,495 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    The same way we played a third string side against Japan last week and they hockeyed us? No, they're playing a full team and are expecting to beat us well then go on to beat France. Their third string was out last week, trouncing Italy in a glorified training session.

    This hooker debate is the exact same thing that comes up whenever there's a good young prospect at 2. People make up this narrative about them being dodgy at set pieces based on virtually nothing just to seem like they know what they're talking about.

    I don't really see what's so huge about Sheehan either. He's built like a centre.

    Untitled Image




  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,373 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Im all for giving young lads a chance, but this is a massive massive step up for any player with such few caps.

    in Joey Carberys first 7 caps he played against New Zealand, Australia, England and Wales

    Joey made his debut aged 21, Sheahan is 23.

    if your good enough, youre old enough



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,332 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    I never mentioned his age.

    Its his inexperience that is the question. If he had performed in tough hcup games then its a step closer to what is coming saturday.

    If he plays saturday then we will see if he is good enough!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 882 ✭✭✭Lsdrugbyfan


    He's 110kg, thats a big hooker. Also he is built more like a number 8.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I think Sheehan will be better than Kelleher. Just a guess. They are both fine players. Hopefully, they are joined by Stewart from Ulster. A massive competition is what we need.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,372 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    A while ago I rewatched Ireland v NZ game from the World Cup. One thing I really want to see from Ireland this weekend is a much improved defence.

    In the quarter final we made so many basic errors. Ringrose and Henshaw, who I think are two of the better defensive centres in the world, were dismantled. The All Blacks weren't even particularly creative in that game. Some pull back passes and reversing of play but they ghosted through our midfield and fringe defence.

    I recognise that they could do this because they took us apart up front and our backs had no time to set themselves in defence, but a lot of basic errors were made regardless.



  • Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭ Everleigh Freezing Oasis


    I couldn't read past the first sentence. You are sick man.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,323 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Still no team announcement.

    Could someone be an injury doubt?

    There was a delay on the team for England in March and it turned out Connors was injured.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,477 ✭✭✭✭bilston




  • Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭ Everleigh Freezing Oasis


    Mad to think how well Connors was playing at the start of this year/in the 6N, yet has barely warranted a mention this series given the depth at backrow we have.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Shows how short the memories of some can be unfortunately and how cruel this sport is.

    Sure Max Deegan and Doris were neck and neck in terms of performance prior to Deegan doing his ACL



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 743 ✭✭✭phily2002


    Good chance without the injury he'd be our starting 7. He was getting better and better each game. Hopefully he's not long getting back up to speed when he returns



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,095 ✭✭✭CMcsporty


    Just occurred to me that Sheehan will have that horrid purple jersey for his first cap.

    I think it's fair to Q's the reasoning for Sheehan selection ahead of Herring. Although i would pick him because of his obvious potential.

    But nobody can say with any certainty how good his set-piece really is. e.g. His throwing under pressure

    He is also massive in height for a hooker. Bismark duP was 6'2" and he's the tallest i can think of. Again nobody knows with any degree of certainty how good his scrummaging really is.

    But like Kelleher he had obvious potential from day one.



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