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Perfect on the outside, sham on the inside…

124

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,389 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    I'm sorry but staying in a bad relationship just to keep your mammy happy must be one of the worst reasons I have ever heard.

    If he genuinely 100% plans to leave when the mother dies I'd be telling him to go now.

    Separation and divorce take a long time.

    If he's due to inherit anything from the mother's estate the wife will get half, if he's divorced I don't think she'll be entitled to anything, but it's definitely something he should be looking into.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 483 ✭✭costacorta


    I know this might not go down well with lots of people but maybe if you tried everything else and you don’t want to leave your wife and kids maybe an affair without her knowledge of course would help .

    Believe me it’s a regular occurrence both males and females not happy in the bedroom but can find happiness elsewhere and still be a loving dad and husband at home .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭kaymin


    I can relate to your situation. Once our child was born the marriage was sidelined - separate bedrooms that was a temporary measure became a permanent arrangement (her parents also slept in separate bedrooms for years), intimacy went to zero; efforts to bring some focus back on the marriage were met with indifference and silence - I can't recall one time when she entertained a meaningful discussion about it.

    I employed a cleaner to help around the house, put my son to bed every night, took him for the whole of Saturday every week so my wife could do what she liked, took my son for long evening walks after work (she was a stay at home mother) to give her a break, encouraged her to go out with friends, take up a night course etc. My son was a great sleeper aswell. It didn't matter.

    I tried to arrange marriage counseling but she wouldn't participate.

    In the end separation came as a relief. I had no sense of loss as in reality I had lost nothing. The downward spiral was quick from when he was born to separation when he was only 15 months old. Not what I would have wished for my son but in my view it is better he does not get his idea of relationships from parents in a dysfunctional relationship.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    OP please ignore the accusations of misandry made towards the women posting on this thread. Or if you can't, at least attempt to balance it up against the blatant misogyny of some posts.

    Can I ask, do you still love your wife? You haven't said whether you do or not.

    If you don't, well, in that case, start the legal process, and make it a clean break for both of you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭bb1234567


    You leave yourself badly exposed to being penalised in any legal situation if it comes to light, she could walk away with everything. It's not worth the risk.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ...If a partner won't even discuss the lack of intimacy then let them know you will be finding intimacy elsewhere. You don't get to demand monogomy and unilaterally withdrawing intimacy indefinitley...

    Please don't resort to bullying your wife into having sex with you by holding the threat of cheating over her. Do her a favour and just leave her instead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    Why don’t you suggest she leave?

    she seems to be doing what she likes and if he doesn’t like it he should leave?

    maybe he should do what he likes regardless of how she feels and she should leave?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭Brid Hegarty


    @JoChervil OP you might have rejected your wife first and are not even aware of it. Women usually stop showing affection, when they simply don't feel it anymore because they let resentment built up without addressing it. Your wife got through two pregnancies, so she probably thought she got more important things to worry about and let it slip.

    Who told you that? Aren't we supposed to believe that that was more indicative of men? It just seems like you pulled it right out your behind. Besides, wouldn't she have brought this up when the OP tried to address the subject?



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,549 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    **Reminder to all posters**

    The Relationship Issues Forum is not a discussion forum. Posters post seeking advice and replies are expected to offer advice.

    General discussion between posters is not allowed. Please address replies to the OP and do not engage in argument or discussion with other posters.

    You can of course disagree with the advice/opinion of others but please do so in the context of offering advice to the OP.

    Posts which breach this charter rule from this a point will receive an official warnings. Warnings accumulate and can result in a site ban.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Hello OP,

    You're allowed to make a mistake and not be punished for the rest of your life. If there were no kids, this would be a no brainer. You'd not even have posted on boards.ie - you'd have moved on.

    But, because there are kids I do think you need to spend time trying to save the marriage (but not years). The silent treatment is fine for a few hours, day max. After that then it's an unproductive sulk. The purpose of the 'silent treatment' can be to bring about a meaningful conversation. 'okay, let's talk.' assuming a conversation was being ignored, or not taken seriously previously.

    But, I don't agree with the, 'a woman with two small children should get a pass on all types of behaviour' - clearly you know your wife better than anyone. Do, also bear in mind, that you're seeing this relationship from one perspective and you might be missing something. That's why counselling would be of benefit here. Have an open mind and you might be surprised. IF she wont go to counselling (and it's not because of being in a hardline religious country where women are seen as subservient to men), then it's hard to try and save it from there.

    However, one key question here... Do you love the person you are living with or do you think you could love them again? Only you can answer this.

    Re a separation/divorce, kids are amazingly resilient. And a couple staying together is NOT ALWAYS the right choice. For balance, very few couples have the perfect marriage, all the time.


    Good luck



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's bullying.

    If you don't do this, (have sex with me) I will do this (cheat on you) with an undertone of (I don't really care if you don't want to have sex with me, as long as I get to have sex.)

    That won't solve anything, except make his wife resent him more.

    Being threatened, even subtlely, with that kind of ultimatum would be the dealbreaker that would end any hope of salvaging the marriage for me, and I think, for many women.

    Please OP, don't cross that line if you do actually want to try and salvage your marriage. Raise the issue of marriage counselling again, and if she still continues to refuse to engage, then there is not much more you can do, but at least you can walk away knowing you offered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    OP, if I were you I’d step away from the thread for a while and take some time to think about the more objective and level headed responses you received.

    Some of the attitudes in this thread are really incredible, and I wouldn’t feel surprised if you felt very demotivated now.

    You both have your own communication issues, but that does not necessarily mean that either of you is being emotionally abusive. Unfortunately this is a card often dished out too quickly to score points, so don’t let it get to you.

    I believe your withdrawal into silent treatment and temporary physical separation only exasperated tensions because you shut down communication the same way your wife does.

    I hope you manage to have a calm and honest conversation with each other, even if this might result in a split.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If I knew her side of the story, maybe I would.

    I'd ask what the problems were for her, and if she could see a path to resolving them.

    I'd also ask if she still loved her husband or not, and if not, I'd give her the same advice as I gave him - start the legal process, and end it.

    I wouldn't be advising her to make ultimatums, and I'm advising the OP not to make any that may make his wife feel like she is being backed into a corner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 925 ✭✭✭TheadoreT


    Im all for communication in relationships, but when it comes to this matter how does that discussion resolve itself? "Best" case scenario the wife agrees despite clearly not being into it to have sex "x" times a week/month?

    Would husbands who've been deprived of sex genuinely be happy with that arrangement? Surely you need enjoyment on behalf of your partner to enjoy it yourself? Or for her to want it without you using it as an ultimatum for leaving the relationship.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,816 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    OP, whatever the factors were that brought the situation to where it is, it sounds to me like the fundamental issue here is that, not only is your wife no longer attracted to you, she doesn't care about being attracted to you.

    She's not looking at you and listening to you and thinking 'How do we fix this problem and get back to the point where I'm attracted to my husand?' For her, the lack of attraction/intimacy isn't actually a problem, isn't something that needs to be fixed.

    Rather than admit that to you (which she naturally doesn't want to do) she either tells you that you're imagining it, or she just refuses to talk about it at all, whether to you or to a counsellor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,072 ✭✭✭JoChervil


    OP

    You might try to solve your situation from a position of strength (fighting for your rights, protecting boundaries jada, jada, jada....), which inevitably will clamp both of you even stronger and will lead to your break-up.

    or

    You might try to solve your situation from a position of vulnerability, which requires much more strength and courage but gives hopes for reconnection.

    I won't ask you, if you love your wife and I wouldn't ask you wife this question as well atm, because I know the answer. It's no. Hurting people can't feel it. Instead I would ask, if you loved your wife and if your wife loved you because it would prove that love is possible between you both.

    Counselling sucks because it makes us vulnerable. And it requires a lot of courage to see ourselves, who we really are. And to show this our side to our partner, when it's not guaranteed, it will be accepted.

    If I were you I would start counselling on your own and after some time I would ask your wife to join you, to help you. But during counselling you might come to a conclusion that you want something else and your current marriage belongs to the past. But if you won't try, you will never know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 762 ✭✭✭steinbock123


    Is there any possibility that your wife is suffering from depression? Loss of libido is a common side effect of depression.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    OP, I really don't see where people are getting the idea that you are at fault here. I've even seen the term "emotional abuse" bandied about, and honestly find it shocking given what you've said.

    I'm a married stay-at-home mum of three children - 7, 6 and 1 years of age. My husband has always worked, sometimes two jobs, while I stayed at home. It is definitely a full-time job. I've had days where I've had to walk the kids to school while absolutely dying sick or exhausted from being up all night breastfeeding the youngest when she was a newborn. I've had days where I felt like bursting into tears in the kitchen because I didn't know how I was going to find the energy to pull together a dinner and knew I still had uniforms to do and my husband was already gone on a night-shift. Sex life took a nosedive and what was maybe 8-9 times a WEEK before kids was lucky to be twice a month after.

    However, intimacy never left. We would cuddle on the couch and binge-watch TV shows in the evening, spoon in bed every night, cuddle and kiss regularly and "I love you"s would be exchanged in person, in text and in calls every day. I told my husband that I was still attracted to him and he was still my whole world but that my mind wasn't on the same page as my body a lot of the time and that made it difficult to have the energy for sex.

    There's absolutely no good reason for your wife to be so cold. We wouldn't have quarter of what you describe - we haven't had a date out together as a couple with no kids in over three years. We can't afford a cleaner or babysitter. But the love has never left and I hope it never does. I hope your wife decides to engage, really I do. But if she doesn't, may you have the courage to move on and find the life you deserve. An affair won't save things. Resentment and cold indifference is no way to raise a baby. But two good parents separating to find what will make them happy make for a really decent life that many kids would only dream of. And that's coming from a child of such a separation ;)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition



    I think this is a good and important post.

    It can't be automatically assumed that because a woman has young children she's in the right when there's a problem in a marriage. Even if she does find things hard it's a reality that has to be dealt with, and refusing to talk about it or to go to counselling is destructive.

    Regardless of things being hard in life, you're at serious risk of losing your relationship if you stop communicating with the other person or start taking it out on them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    Yeah, I tried to raise this point as well.

    But for some strange reason, people seem to be completely ignoring it as a potential factor. Even though mental health problems are well known to be a major contributing factor to relationship problems.

    (preferring instead to focus on useless point scoring agenda type stuff)

    The OP stated that his wife had "warning signs" of mental health issues from the very beginning of the marriage, before any kids came on the scene. Then you throw in the stress of two child births, in what sounds like a very short period of time. Potential for post par-tum depression lumped into the mix etc as well.

    This is why I suggested a strong intervention might be needed. If the OP is facing a spouse with very deeply rooted mental health issues, with patterns of behavior that have become completely normalized in her mind, this could be a very difficult spell to break. You would definitely need professional help to break through what could be very big walls that have developed over a long time frame.

    People can be stuck in a cycle of self-destructive behaviors, that they find very difficult to break free from. Admitting there is a problem, and admitting you need help, is the first step. But is his wife capable of doing this? The OP can't put his life and happiness on hold forever, waiting for his wife to reach this point.

    Also, just a side note, dumbing the OP's problems down to just a denial of sex is not helpful. The OP is talking about a lack of intimacy, which is not exactly the same thing as a lack of sex. Sex is part of intimacy, but not the whole picture. Lack of intimacy can also mean, a lack of care, a lack of genuine affection, a lack of warmth, a lack of being valued or appreciated in the relationship etc etc. It's far more than just sex, and it can leave someone feeling lonely and pushed to the fringes like they don't really matter anymore.

    It's a cold place to be for any considerable length of time. As much as you can have empathy for someone who is perhaps struggling with personal issues, the OP shouldn't wait around indefinitely for a resolution. As his own mental health could suffer too, if you hang around for long enough in this type of atmosphere.

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    ... Lack of intimacy can also mean, a lack of care, a lack of genuine affection, a lack of warmth, a lack of being valued or appreciated in the relationship etc etc. It's far more than just sex, and it can leave someone feeling lonely and pushed to the fringes like they don't really matter anymore ...

    I wonder if he asked her, would the OPs wife say she also feels lonely, undervalued or unappreciated in the relationship? She is at home full time with 2 very young children, no family in the country, and a husband who by his own admission works antisocial hours and does not help as much as he knows he should with the children. His solution to his lack of presence is to throw money at it, instead.

    I think the op should find that out before laying the blame for all their problems in their relationship squarely on his wife shoulders like some here are telling him to do.

    He also freely admits to bottling things up and not talking himself, so there are communication problems on both sides. It takes two people to make a marriage fail.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    A marriage can absolutely fail with one culprit. Cheating, abandonment, abuse of a multitude of varieties, one person falling out of love... I don't know where you're going with that, but you cannot possibly be suggesting that if one person wants the marriage to end and the other doesn't, that they are both at fault?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    No offence to your experience. But having two kids can reek havoc on a woman. And what I mean by havoc is removing replacing or completely overhauling of your entire chemical system. Results of which can be depths of depression you've never known or sporadic highs and lows and many in between.


    So to say there is absolutely no good reason for his wife to be so cold is absolute nonsense. And I mean that kindly.

    Evidently you've been extremely fortunate in that respect when many others have not. Dwell on that for a bit ..


    To the OP I'd suggest professional help first. He signed up to both the marriage and the kids. It's worth more to him to give personal and marriage counseling a try before completely throwing it all away because his wife hasn't learned any tools to deal with what she is experiencing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,528 ✭✭✭ShaShaBear


    There isn't. She has made absolutely no effort to talk to her husband. At all. Sitting silent and wallowing in your misery and refusing to speak to anyone or ask for help isn't going to - surprise surprise - get you help. Making the decision to withdraw both physically and emotionally and refusing to speak, debate or even explain is going cold. I did not once say she had no good reason to have issues, but she can't expect her husband to be an emotional punching bag while he works on his mind reading skills. I'm aware of the toll of two kids. Because I have three. I'm not sure why you're explaining the inner chemical workings to me. I have had untold issues and when things become too much, I speak to someone. If I need help, I speak to someone. If I am angry or sad, I speak to someone.

    She signed up to a marriage too, you know. And has shot down the OPs suggestion of counselling, in case you missed that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,937 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    It is really clear that some people have started from a position of "The wife needs help and support" and everything else just goes from there.

    But this is the OP's thread, he is allowed to have a life as well, and it is absolutely unfair on any man or woman to be treated in the way he currently is.

    His wife has stopped all intimacy and communication. People talk about emotional abuse, what she has done is the definition of emotional abuse and the OP is allowed to consider his own needs rather than make it all about fixing hers.

    If she started a thread I would advise her based on its own merits. But this is the OP's thread, and I would absolutely tell him to consider what he himself wants and where he wants to go, that life is short and he only gets one of them so don't waste it on a person who won't give the basic human decency of an honest conversation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,970 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    I very much agree with this.

    Of course it's possible the OPs wife is unwell. But if she is she still has a responsibility to try and deal with the issues. As it stands she is proving impossible to live with and won't even try counselling. There's nothing a partner can do with that except leave or endure a life of misery.

    Being a mother of young children doesn't mean that anything you do in life is acceptable. Sure, depression can happen in the early years of parenthood, but that doesn't give you carte blanche to take it out on your partner indefinitely. If this woman won't acknowledge there's a serious problem, even with her husband on the brink of leaving, the outlook is very bad.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    We don't know what efforts she has made to talk to her husband. You're assuming she made no effort to talk to him. At all.

    However, if you go back to the start of the thread and re-read the first couple of the OPs posts, obviously there was some talking going on, until the OP decided to start throwing ultimatums into the mix, then he subjected his wife to the silent treatment (which, sorry, but it is considered emotional abuse, see articles linked earlier in the thread) - to the extent that his wife was pushed to boiling point (something he seems to gloat about) and then he packed his bags and left to move into a hotel.

    The OP is certainly not without fault here - nor is he a master of communication. He admits to bottling things up and letting his resentment fester. He is not the blameless angel you'd like to paint him in this scenario, something he himself admits.

    Anyway, I think the thread is starting to go in circles. The OP knows what he needs to do.

    OP, I do hope you can find a way talk to your wife and get her to talk to you, even if only to split amicably for your kids sake. Best of luck.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Some amount of projecting going on in this thread which the OP would be best to ignore, imo. However, he's the one that knows the situation the best. Based on the facts he gave he's got lots of advice - only he can really tell what's the most relevant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭lalababa


    Just go to couple's councilling. That's where you start. If you want your teeth fixed you go to a dentist etc....



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    No doubt of you needed counseling then you would have context of what depression means. But based on your response you haven't a notion.


    Other posters are entirely right. It's down to the OP what to do next himself.


    But the lack of compassion and empathy is throughout this thread. I can completely sympathise with his situation which is why I told him to go speak to someone professionally and not listen to people vilifying his wife who we and he may have zero idea of what is going through. He might learn something he might be able to learn to engage. He might find that it's a lost cause entirely . All appropriate outcomes. But the professional help empowers him to take the next step tooled up.


    I wish him well and don't envy any of his choices.



This discussion has been closed.
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