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New Alternative News Channel "GB News" chaired by Andrew Neil launching - read OP before posting

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    None of that is cancel culture, but good effort all the same. Thankfully I'm neither a republican nor live in the US.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,916 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    "But there's literally nothing "questionable" about tax avoidance."


    Really?



    "tax avoidance cannot be called “legal” because a lot of what gets called “tax avoidance” falls in a legal grey area. “Tax avoidance” is often incorrectly assumed to refer to “legal” means of underpaying tax (such as using loopholes), while “tax evasion” is understood to refer to illegal means. In the real world, however, this legal-illegal distinction often falls apart.


    Ultimately, both tax avoidance and tax evasion result in countries being short-changed out of billions in tax with public services, local industries and ordinary people suffering for it."



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Of course there are grey areas on the borders of tax avoidance - tax evasion, depending on the tax code at the time.

    But what Farage did wasn't in any grey zone whatsoever.

    It was a trust based in the Isle of Man, and nothing more than that. And to the expected glee of others, he made a loss on the venture anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,377 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Eskiboy defending Farage and his dodgy financial dealings.


    Has he compared Farage to Saville yet?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,916 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true.


    "There is a pervasive understanding amongst the public, journalists and politicians that tax avoidance is all ‘perfectly legal’.

    This idea is promoted by tax advisors who have a direct financial interest in convincing their clients that what they are doing will not get them into trouble.

    The claim that tax avoidance is ‘legal’ is used as defence by companies who are accused of the practice, and the idea has been adopted by politicians who claim that businesses and individuals have a moral (not legal) obligation not to engage in tax avoidance.

    Even HMRC’s own definition of tax avoidance makes reference to “bending the rules” (not breaking them), and stating that tax avoidance involves “operating within the letter, but not the spirit, of the law”.

    This idea, that all tax avoidance is legal, is a myth. In most cases tax avoidance is not legal at all, and for several decades courts around the world have taken an increasingly aggressive stance towards tax avoidance schemes, striking them down and imposing penalties on those involved.

    HMRC, the UK tax agency, claims to have won pretty much every time it has challenged a tax avoidance scheme in court in recent years.


    Tax avoidance, as viewed by the courts, frequently falls into this category. Tax avoidance takes advantage of the fact that the wording of the law may not be clear, or that a particular law conflicts with another, creating ambiguity around how the law should be applied. Because it seeks to exploit gaps and loopholes in the law, it is not positively prohibited, but public policy is very clearly opposed to tax avoidance. What this means in practice is that the courts can determine that a tax avoidance scheme has no effect, reversing the advantage that any taxpayer sought to gain, and imposing a civil penalty. "


    Farage preaches to others about avoiding paying tax and then tried a sneaky move to do the exact same himself.


    As I said before, he's a hypocrite.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,157 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Lol. Of course it isn't. It's only cancel culture when the left want something to stop isn't it.



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well, the latest victim of cancel culture is the left-wing lesbian, Kathleen Stock.

    They even eat their own.



  • Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    How is Piers Morgan racist exactly? What are the Top 3 most racist things that he has said or done?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,333 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    Who's "they"? Weren't you criticising a poster recently for using generalisations?



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Left.

    Kathleen Stock is from left-wing stock.

    But because she believes that biological sex exists, a version of the left - the cancel culture types - deemed her insufficiently left-wing, and so mandated her cancellation.

    Once cancelled and removed from Sussex University, they celebrated with, "Ding Dong - the Witch is Dead".

    Utterly evil human beings.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    Nope. Colin Kaeoernick was canceled, seems like that lad who took the knee for GB News was aswell. Happens more with people on the left however, albeit a minority ('progressives'). Happy you finally accept cancel culture exists all the same. It's a good start :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    Look, at least most of the posters here are coming around to accepting cancel culture exists. It's a good start. That they want to believe that it's still mainly a right-wing phenomon is no surprise. But sure let's take one step at a time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 464 ✭✭The Quintessence Model


    Nope. Don't need to forget any of them. I said still want to believe it's *mainly* a right wing phenomenon, which it is no longer. It is now mainly a left wing fiasco, unfortunately. Elements of it exist of the right, but most of the canceling that happens is a result of those on the (usually progressive) left, and a lot of the time those being targeted are themselves left wing. The two most recent noteworthy examples being Kathleen stock and jk Rowling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,054 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    How would you quantify what "most posters" are "coming around to" ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,824 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Many of those on the receiving end of cancel culture are genuine racists and bigots though. People like JK Rowling and Stock would be much more of a minority (i.e. they themselves have no time for the racists and bigots but have run into problems on some very specific issue).



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,491 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Mod - bring the thread back on topic please



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,157 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    So one person in one University?

    Search for teachers being disciplined, reassigned or fired for having BLM symbols in their classroom and you'll find examples from schools in Texas, Florida, North Carolina and probably more.

    You can teachers fired for announcing they were atheists.

    Go to YouTube and you'll find video after video of people threatening school board members for having the audacity to suggest wearing masks to keep people safe.

    Or as already pointed out, schools all over the southern states of the US cancelling the teaching of Martin Luther King and in Texas, cancelling the requirement to teach that the KKK is morally wrong.

    On another thread here, you yourself are advocating the cancelling of peoples citizenship if they were granted it and then committed a crime.

    But, in your view, the utterly evil human beings are those who stand up for themselves against someone who challenges their existence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,157 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I've never denied it's existence, I'm just not pretending to be ignorant as to how it is actually utilized to impact society.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Sorry but this is entirely and wilfully, either deliberately or lazily, disingenuous. If the objections to her were based simply on her belief that "biological sex exists", then we should expect a similar clear out of 100s, even 1000s, of academics across the country. The initial anger towards her was based on several factors, including her trusteeship of the LGB Alliance, which many allege to have an anti trans agenda, and her co signatory of the wdhr which her opponents claim calls for the denial of trans rights. By all means stand up for Kathleen Stock and refute the charges against her, but if you reduce the argument to such a gross and inaccurate over simplification, then i simply cannot accept your opinion in good faith.



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cancel culture is wrong - whether it comes from the right of the past or the left of today.

    Our side of the argument is consistent: we don't like it, wherever it comes from.



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  • Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Do you think all boycotting is wrong? Do you propose banning of organised boycotts? Consumers are free to voice their displeasure over the behaviour of people associated with a brand, company etc. Becoming a public figure and saying controversial things doesn't give you a protected status...



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    People can choose to boycott, if they so choose.

    Take an actor, for example. If an individual intensely dislikes that actor for something they've said, they can voluntarily choose to boycott all movies in which they appear. That's healthy and fine.

    What's not acceptable is for that individual to deliberately get that actor ostracised and removed from professional and social circles, forcing the rest of us not to hear or experience that actor again.



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I've never argued that Marcus Rashford, or any other professional footballer, should be censored and ostracised from society (i.e. cancellation).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    That is what naturally happens with a boycott. If enough people avoid that actor or a studio feels a lot of people avoid an actor then that actor will no longer get hired and no one will be able to watch him. You say you are happy with boycotts but are unhappy with the effects of it.


    You are free to watch whatever actor on dvd etc. but you they won't be shown if they don't make enough money.


    Jk has not been cancelled. She is doing whatever she was doing before. All that has changed is that less people like her and anything attached to her name will make less money because less people want to buy her stuff now. Her books etc. are all still available to buy and she is very much on the face of the planet. Chapelle is being cancelled apparently with a massive show out at the moment, easy to watch him. Again not wiped off the planet.



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Over the past couple of months, I've argued on here that GB News was pivoting to the digital realm as opposed to considering itself a traditional TV channel. As expected, my remarks were shot down with the usual, if somewhat predictable, set of rebuttals. I've also argued that GB News is more than just "anti-Woke"; that this is nothing more than a dismissive and simplistic slogan. And, even though I've argued that GB News will not expire anytime soon - we've heard the usual groans from the usual suspects about how GB News was a dead channel walking, with perhaps just a couple of months breathing room left.

    Only two weeks ago, GB News boss - Angelos Frangopoulos - sat down with The Telegraph to pretty much verify every single point I've been arguing. Every last one.

    Here are some salient excerpts from the interview.

    "The reason why this technology is important is because this is not a TV station," Frangopoulos says. "This is a modern media business that has digital at the heart and soul of everything that it is. GB News is a digital business with a TV channel attached to it. 


    That's why we are able to pivot and launch things like a radio station or super-serve audiences across different digital platforms from Youtube to TikTok."


    Nigel Farage's prime time show - Farage - is among the channel's most successful ventures, beating Sky News and the BBC News on Wednesday last week with 179,600 viewers.


    Meanwhile, the ground is also being prepared for a huge marketing blitz outside of the M25 in an attempt to draw more viewers in the regions. 

    He settles on TalkRadio, the radio station owned by Rupert Murdoch, from which GB News has poached a number of presenters. He points to the 275,000 subscribers TalkRadio has amassed on the video-sharing service since 2016. GB News, meanwhile, has pulled in the same amount over the past four months. The channel also has 170,000 subscribers on TikTok, the youthful video scrolling app. 


    While he says the TV audience data helps shape decisions of what shows work and what doesn't, it is the digital data that has proved "really compelling".


    "When you start a new company, you launch on a set of assumptions, but the wonderful thing about a business like ours is you can pivot really fast. The success we have had on digital has really exceeded our expectations."


    Turning those growth numbers into sustainable income is the ultimate goal, a task made easier now the advertising industry is bouncing back strongly from the pandemic.


    Frangopoulos wants to turn a profit "sooner rather than later" but says he has years before its financial runway has run out

    So, not only have my conclusions shown to be true, but that GB News - far from expiring - is set to grow further, with ambitious plans over the coming years.

    As Frangopoulos says in the piece, they have "years of financial runway" left due to their low-cost business model compared to mainstream channels.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    You really don't understand how this works at all do you.

    "People can choose to boycott , if they so choose" you say - Which means less (maybe a lot less) revenue for the subject of the boycott.

    Said subject then takes action to address to reasons for the boycott.

    In your scenario , people boycott an actor for something they said/did leading to a drop in revenue for the Movie Studio or TV Channel. They might do it silently , equally they might choose to tell people - "I'm no longer watching TV Show X because John Q Actor did/said something I find unacceptable"

    In order to restore their revenue streams the Studio/TV Station decide that the actor is now not worth the hassle so they drop them from the TV Show or no longer pick them for the next movie.

    That is EXACTLY what happens in all these "cancel culture" incidents that you rail against.

    So , explain how an old fashioned "boycott" is acceptable but this new fangled "Cancel Culture" thing isn't.

    While you are at it explain how they are different in your mind?



  • Posts: 6,559 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Except the reality is, organisations don't want to associate with figures if they've been publicly drawing them into disrepute. And protests can be in the form of boycotts, petitions etc. These are all valid forms of freedom of expression. You are equally free to write in support of her.... This is a healthy form of protest that people are entitled to engage in.


    To use your actor analogy. Mel Gibson famously got drunk and said a load of antisemitic stuff. By your logic, he's been cancelled as his career is almost non existent as a result. The reality is, he became a toxic brand as a result of his behavior and a lot of people simply weren't willing to work with him. By your logic, he was cancelled.


    Gina Carano of the Mandalorian engaged in a load of transphobia and lost her job, that cancel culture too? There was a public outcry over her comments but realistically, plenty of people simply didn't want to work with her. Eg Pedro Pascal's sister is trans so I can't imagine he wants to work with her after that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,981 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    And regarding Mel Gibson, he's been booked to star in a TV show based in the John Wicj universe.

    So... not cancelled.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,712 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Some people here should watch GBNews because if they did they wouldn't be so blatantly ignorant on the trans issues, or LGB Alliance, as is clearly the case judging by some of the previous comments.



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  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Of all the points that was in that post, your sole focus appears to be on the least significant point.



This discussion has been closed.
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