Perfect on the outside, sham on the inside…

direstraits2021 · 03-11-2021 05:05PM #1

Long time lurker first time poster…

Irish guy married to an Irish girl about 5 years with two young babies.

Don’t even know where to start here, I feel a shadow of my former self.

On the face of it we have it all, we live abroad but get back home as much as we want and very thankful to be in a great job - money and lifestyle never been a problem and fully aware how fortunate we are in that regard.

Sounds clichéd but old adage applies, soon as we got married, it was like a light went out in terms of affection and intimacy. While we were conceiving, it was just like a means to an end, I can’t remember the last time she ever initiated anything or showed any affection and after a frustrating few years I just gave up trying.

With combination of second baby, Covid etc I’ve just found myself completely re-evaluating. I’ve tried to be open about how deeply unhappy I am in the relationship but she just deflects all the time that I’m imagining it and I should just grin and bear it.

Looking back there’s been more than enough warning signs - mental health issues have always been on the periphery and while I’m open re talking about this stuff and tackling head on, she won’t hear of it. I fear she has this warped view of what’s normal, e.g. her own parents don’t share a bedroom for as long as I can remember and no one bats an eyelid and the more I think about the next 40 years being in this soulless void of a relationship, I just panic…

We have two amazing children but I don’t want them growing up in this loveless environment, I’d rather be separated and try to get some of my old happy self back which would allow me be a better parent in the long run because this current situation is draining the life out of me.

Have followed a lot of the threads here so will pre-empt some of the usual responses - I know I could / should be doing more of the household and baby responsibilities but the reality is the nature of my job is chaotic and I’ve tried to compensate by availing of paid help where I can, e.g. cleaners, babysitters etc on tap - in short all usual pain points are readily addressable

In terms of talking it out further, I just feel exasperated at this point and have started to actively resent her for this.

I’m a private person so tend to keep this bottled in, I know one or two family members suspect all is not right but this is the most open I’ve been on my thoughts

Am I kidding myself and do I just leave?

03-11-2021 05:17PM

You've said you've spoke to her about how you are feeling but have you spoke about how its relationship ending issues?

Maybe she's assuming you will just grin and bear it and she doesnt need to change her behavior?

direstraits2021 · 03-11-2021 05:25PM

Op here - I think because I’ve been fairly private about it she reads that as being unwilling to follow through.

Back in August I said it was coming to the end of the road for me - some of this manifested as me completely withdrawing and just co-existing in the same house without really engaging her for a week and that just drove her crazy but to be honest I’m just worn out at this stage so it’s my coping mechanism.

In August she had a blow with some family issues so I agreed to park things but earlier this week I just realised absolutely nothing has changed so I’ve said that I see us separating by the end of the year. Again, didn’t really extract a response…

Tork · 03-11-2021 05:31PM

What was your sex life like before you married?

direstraits2021 · 03-11-2021 05:36PM

it wasn’t crazy but it was regular and she never rejected me.

Since we got married it’s basically like sharing a bed with a roommate.

I have been considerate of 2 young babies along the way etc and what impact that can have on things but at this stage I honestly feel she played a role as long as she had to which just makes me more angry.

Goodigal · 03-11-2021 06:39PM

You've tried to talk to her about it, but maybe it needs to happen in couples counselling? Let someone else help you both open up about the issues in your marriage. Talk honestly and openly about how rejected and angry you feel. Let her speak about her feelings towards you. Don't separate without making a real effort to try to salvage things. Thats just my opinion!

JoChervil · 03-11-2021 08:08PM

OP you might have rejected your wife first and are not even aware of it. Women usually stop showing affection, when they simply don't feel it anymore because they let resentment built up without addressing it. Your wife got through two pregnancies, so she probably thought she got more important things to worry about and let it slip.

Woman's sexuality and affection flow the best, when they know they are partner's priority. If you are choosing work, friends, your family or your hobbies (I don't even mention addictions) over her, it might make her unhappy. I suspect that in your case it might be your work, because you made quite a long justification of it. Unasked. Your work might be hectic, but it is still possible to show your wife that you care. You really can't compensate care with money, they are simply different currencies. You want affectionate family life, while it seems all you are offering is paid help, not your time, your care, your personal involvement in it. And don't take me wrong, it's not choosing your wife over work, like staying with her all the time and not working. Only choosing her, when your work and her needs collide from time to time, even so rarely like once a year.

BTW having separate bedrooms is perfectly normal in my book. It has nothing to do with soullessness. Often it comes from caring, if one party snores, or constantly move around in the bed waking another partner.

tony1kenobi · 03-11-2021 08:09PM

You’ve tried your best and you aren’t getting any help. Time to knock it on the head.

SmallgirlBigcity · 03-11-2021 08:47PM

We have a toddler ourselves so I can completely understand how it affects the relationship. But I think it's important that both people continue to try if there are issues. It does sound like she's checked out, emotionally and physically. If myself and my partner aren't intimate for a while, I make a point of talking about it. It's important to me that we discuss it and not leave it hanging. There needs to be that willingness to keep trying, in my opinion. Perhaps try couples counselling, as mentioned above, but if you really feel like she's not going to change, then maybe it is best to break up. Life is too short to be miserable like this. Sometimes breaking up is the best option for the family unit. It's hard but as you said, it's not good for children to grow up seeing a loveless marriage. This will shape their bored and ideas of love and relationships. I wish you all the best. If it can't be fixed, I do think it's best to move on. We all deserve happiness.

SmallgirlBigcity · 03-11-2021 08:49PM

With regards to the above post about sleeping in separate rooms, I personally don't like the idea of it. But perhaps some mothers Co sleep and its a necessity. In that case it makes sense but not if the relationship itself completely lacks affection and love. Then it's a problem.

Still stihl waters 3 · 03-11-2021 09:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118114581#Comment_118114581

Agreed, what's the pont in being miserable and even for the kids sake, they're better off being with happy parents separately than being reared in an unhappy house, she might be happy with the status quo but no ride and zero talk about it would have me pulling the plug

04-11-2021 12:09AM

You're far, far from alone, op, even though men rarely if ever talk about this.

You need legal advice but you could check if you're eligible for Legal Aid here: https://www.legalaidboard.ie/en/our-services/legal-aid-services/do-i-qualify-/can-i-get-civil-legal-aid-and-advice-.html

Best of luck.

standardg60 · 04-11-2021 12:59AM

Do you think perhaps that you married someone who regards themselves as a trophy wife OP? That you should be happy enough to have landed them and nothing else needs to be done. You definitely need to take some sort of action like moving out for a while as she sounds like she's in complete denial of the seriousness of the situation. I think that's the only way of bringing her to the realisation of your unhappiness.

04-11-2021 01:19AM

Don't move out from the family home.

direstraits2021 · 04-11-2021 06:55AM

Op here - to be fair I don’t think she has the mentality of a trophy wife but sometimes I do feel she doesn’t appreciate just how good we have it.

To be honest, the financial implications are not an issue on either side so that’s not an issue.

Update: she basically had a meltdown this morning because of the silent treatment and told me she’s not accepting it. I asked her to tell me how she wants to deal with the issues and she basically said she’s not going to so I think I have my answer.

She’s being very manipulative already about the kids but the youngest is not far off picking up on vibes so I still feel this is not the environment I want for them and the only thing I can control is removing myself from the situation.

I’ve shifted to a hotel for a couple of days but the fact I already feel like some weight has been lifted off my shoulders is telling me I’m doing the right thing.

Shao Kahn · 04-11-2021 08:26AM

@OP -

I agree with Goodigal above.

You need to try couple's counselling before you pull the plug. You loved this woman enough to marry her only 5 years ago, and she is the mother of your 2 kids. There could be a myriad of issues going on, that a professional might be able to unravel as a mediator between the both of you. As your ability to communicate with each other seems to have broken down.

You stand no chance of solving these issues, if both of you are unable to talk calmly with each other. It does seem like your wife is burying her head in the sand and refusing to engage. And that does indeed sound very frustrating.

It's impossible for people on an internet forum to see the exact dynamics of your relationship. I know you're a private person, but maybe even just for the sake of your young kids just give something like counselling a fair go. Even if you have to drag her kicking and screaming (metaphorically of course). Just go into it with an open mind, and ask her to do the same. You just never know what might come out of it - if it doesn't work, at least you can say you gave a shot.

Best of luck.

XsApollo · 04-11-2021 08:40AM

I was in the same situation a few years ago, out of it now mind.

it’s toxic when one of ye feels like that.

I did the same things as yourself , pulled other parts of the relationship away as a sort of punishment or thinking along the lines of why should I do do that or engage in other ways if she is not engaging that way.

the resentment only get worse and worse, to the point where the slightest thing can set one of ye off.

in the end it was put the same way as yours as in it’s not going to change and that’s that, so I finally left.

Hardest thing is leaving the kids, took a while to get over that.

But both of us are in a much better place out of it.

Tork · 04-11-2021 11:31AM

OP, it sounds like you have decided to leave the marriage but it might be helpful to try and get your wife to attend a couples counselling session anyway. It might end with both of you agreeing that it's time to split but it could take the heat out the crap that will inevitably start to fly once you break up.

direstraits2021 · 04-11-2021 02:11PM

Thanks for all the feedback, I’ve heard it said before that this place is a great help and it really feels like it.

Hear all the comments on the counselling, to be honest this has been offered more than once but I do want to do this with a clean conscience so will suggest again.

JoChervil · 04-11-2021 02:14PM

So you are giving her a silent treatment and you moved to a hotel. Don't you see how toxic it is? People open, when they feel accepted, loved and SAFE. Have you created such conditions? No. You threaten her to death and you want her to open up? How? You put her in an impossible situation.

You want love and affection from your wife, while using coercive methods for it. Do you treat your wife with love, you expect from her?

I think you just want to leave this marriage with no guilt attached. You have your answers because you forced such answers from her.

If a relationship was good at the beginning, so two people are responsible for its deterioration, while you want to put all blame on your wife. Don't you see that your methods don't work and only escalate things?

I would look for couples counselling. You simply are not able to communicate like adults.

direstraits2021 · 04-11-2021 02:32PM

Look respect your opinion but I haven’t forced any answers from my wife, the fact I have so few reasons for any of this is testament to this.

I’m not saying I’ve been an angel in all of this but I do agree with you that this situation is toxic and at some stage I’ve had to cope with that situation in a way that doesn’t grind me down any further which is where we are at.

Not going into too much more detail but too many examples of jeckyll and Hyde type behaviour putting on a front to everyone and coming home in the evening and taking it out on me the second she comes in the door (hence the title). I’ve been walking on egg shells for months

JoChervil · 04-11-2021 02:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117891#Comment_118117891

Maybe you should start counselling on your own first? If you change slightly, your marriage dynamic will change too.

I am afraid that at the moment you again will get "your answer" to your offer.

manonboard · 04-11-2021 02:38PM

Hey OP. Your situation put the feeeellzz in me. It sounds like a really difficult and heartbreaking situation to be in. Your first post was so full of hurt feelings and memories. It made me sad for you. To add kids to the mix is a terrible.

You sound quite reasonable, and pretty logical about the situation. I dont know how much you misperceive so of course there is blame on both sides too. Given her parents relationship, its likely this is just a model she copied.. sure what other model would she have available.

Im sorry for your hardship.

I think now that youve moved out. Obviously aside from being a good father. Its really about taking care of yourself and refinding yourself. However, note that this is also happening on her side too. Whatever feelings you have about her, she likely has equal but not the same about you.

May i ask, if she was to change, and recommit effort and care into the relationship? Would you be interested in restarting it? (forget living arrangements atm). If so, then i think couples counselling is still a good idea. Now that you moved out, she might be more interested in it as its likely very scary for her now. She might be realizing that ..wow..he really is seriously unhappy and taking action. People tend to need a great big scary kick up the butt to make changes. Without the negative consequences of our actions, we are very prone to be lazy and apathetic.

If you decide you dont want to be with her even if she put effort and change in. Thats ok too. Its just really important to be honest with yourself about that. Dont drag her through change knowing deep down you wont accept it anyways.

Youll have to forgive posters that are very harsh and black and white about your motives/actions. They only see the text, and they dont tend to remember the years of conversations that led to this point, and most reasonable people here know its a very grey area in any problems. That you just cant literally write every detail down.

Anyways, Hope things continue to progress for you to some resting point regardless of direction.

04-11-2021 02:43PM

Just one point that hasn't been addressed.

Do you not think that if you split up that your wife and children are quite likely to move back to Ireland - for support structures etc?

Deeec · 04-11-2021 02:49PM

I do sympathise with you but you have to look at this from your wifes side too. I think being honest your wife is probably going through a rough time. By the sounds of it you had 2 babies in a few years and she seems to be alone alot of the time. Coping with small children is very demanding and draining. Also pregnancy and birth isnt great for a womans body - she may feel she is not attractive to you anymore and have issues regarding how she looks. This happens alot of women and this fear of rejection means she doesnt initiate anything. Pay her some compliments - us ladies love compliments.

My advice is give her a weekend off ( send her off with a friend for the weekend )where you are soley responsible for the children - this will give an idea of what a typical day is like for her and will give her a rest. My guess is this could be eye opening for you - you will be exhausted by the end of the day! Also try couples counselling and try and gain an understanding of where both of you are at. Please though try and understand it from your wifes point of view - your wifes life has probably completely changed since she became a mother - it doesnt mean she loves you any less but she has to focus on the constant demands of the 2 little people you've created.

Things will get back to normal when the children are a bit older. Dont give up just yet!

direstraits2021 · 04-11-2021 02:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118022#Comment_118118022

We get back to Ireland regularly and during the last showdown I did suggest that she stay at home with the kids for a while for that very reason and I would commute back and forth for a while - gets her home but also gives us some time for reflection.

I got a flat no on this even though she doesn’t seem to be happy where we are either.

This morning I offered to fly home with her and the kids so she could get back to Ireland without any further stresses but she refused this also - I’m at the point where I don’t even think she knows herself what she wants.

fits · 04-11-2021 02:49PM

I’m sorry things have deteriorated so much in your relationship. It really sounds beyond saving if she won’t engage with counselling but do agree it could be worth a shot. Please don't do the silent treatment thing. It’s an awful dispiriting way to behave whatever else is going on.

jelly&icecream · 04-11-2021 03:15PM

What age are the kids? Is it possible there's any medical issues on her side (postpartum depression, thyroid issues, mental health issues) that aren't being resolved? Now you're gone to the hotel for a few days what is the childcare situation? Is she on maternity leave or working?

You should really try and get some kind of joint counseling if at all possible if only so the split is as amicable as possible.

Princess Calla · 04-11-2021 03:45PM

OP I really don't know where to begin.

You're married 5ish years so that makes the eldest 3.5/4 and the next one approx 2.5 or younger.

These are the pure drudgery years of child rearing. It's constant demands. Just as you get a handle on one stage it morphs into another completely different stage. It's a constant rollercoaster.

Now you say you're not really there for child rearing or chores but your solution to that problem is throw money at it and outsource it.

You say you've tried talking to your wife and her response is "grin and bare it". I can see where she's coming from with this to be honest. The early years are tough, you go into survival mode, lots of things take a backseat.

You didn't like that response so you initiated the silent treatment and when you got called out on that you packed your bags and left.

So your wife now has two children under 4 to deal with on her own.

Personally I'd find that really hard to forgive. Plus I'd be thinking in the future if things get tough he'll leave me again. I wouldn't be able to live in that shadow.

She may also realise life is easier without you in the house.

04-11-2021 05:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118118515#Comment_118118515

Alternatively she could act like a rational adult rather than a martyr? She could choose to instil some balance in the relationship rather than coldly ditching the guy as soon as kids come along? It doesn't have to be all or nothing. It's a spectacular form of stupidthink to say it does. There are supports there for the vast majority of people - be it family, friends or childcare - to give couples a break to build their relationship. This is the healthy, normal, alternative that healthy relationships use. The kids won't thank her for refusing to get that balance and for instead choosing to run their father into the ground without any break, without any softness, kindness or love to energise him. No relationship on earth works if it's all take and no give. Just a permanent, utterly self-absorbed drama queen taking on more than is necessary in some sort of OCD "fix".

And the whole "mental health" excuse for neglect by women is also quite insulting, as much as the "He's a guy so he does nothing around the house" sexist stereotype. She is refusing to engage. Again and again. She is entirely to blame for that. Her choice. There is a problem. Her refusal to engage in solving it is greatly exacerbating this problem, causing unnecessary hurt to somebody she presumably professed to love and care for, and it will end up depriving children of a balanced, loving homelife. These years aren't coming back. She's not even trying. How long must the man keep pushing this to "show" his love for her? Why does she get a free opt-out in your world from being a considerate, loving partner when there are supportive resources available that she chooses not to access? These are her choices. Yet, her continuing neglect/leaving him emotionally doesn't have to be "forgiven", but his despair at being isolated, unloved and alienated/leaving her physically because of her choice to neglect him needs to be "forgiven". Nuts. So much sexist prejudice right there.

dinneenp · 04-11-2021 05:56PM

As mentioned the age of kids can contribute a lot- it's all work, look after them, tidy up, put them to bed, tidy up, get ready for tomorrow, repeat.

I haven't read the full thread but have ye tried the obvious things- go out for dinner/cinema once a month, book a night or two away for just the two of ye?

Presuming you have I'd say be extremely frank (somewhere & time that ye have without being interrupted) and say if ye don't address it, the marriage is probably over. Ask her what she wants out of the relationship, does she not miss being close to you etc.?

What age is your wife, could she be entering/in the perimenopause phase? Could also explain a lot.

Perfect on the outside, sham on the inside…

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