Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer/Gossip 23/24 - [New Thread Available]

only got the job because of a goal he scored nearly 25 years ago

At the risk of triggering hysterical outrage (I know many are on a cathartic rant since the Villa game ) but it’s not been a terrible week and a half. Going out of the CL is terrible. Losing multiple league games you shouldn’t where you are way behind top is terrible, losing any game in the league cup is seldom more then maybe disappointing. The last couple of games has been very disappointing/concerning.

The Villa defeat yesterday was the worst of the results for me, it was extremely disappointing. Don’t care about league cup. The YB game looked a banker until the red, disappointing reaction from manager and team but that happens sometimes (and if they top the group who cares).

The issue is as others have highlighted, it’s difficult to see an actual playing style outside of “sometime magical will hopefully happen”. You could make an argument that injuries limited sub options against Villa and maybe their goal was suspect offside but United struggled the whole game. These incidents are becoming way too frequent where United may be a bit unlucky at times but it’s not good enough. You shouldn’t need luck in all these games.

United looked 2nd best for many parts against Villa and nothing changed to affect play. And of course Ole has zero pedigree to fall back on when things go pear shaped so doesn’t getting away with drawing with Brentford (Klopp) or Southampton (Pep). This has been part of Oles credibility problem, Pep and Klopp and Tuchel don’t always have answers (contrary to the individual examples rolled out when it suits) but Ole has no medals to hold up and not many really any examples of where he’s turned things round in games going against United.

I don’t personally believe a league cup or a Europa would of made much of a difference , they weren’t enough for Jose in many peoples eyes. Think the tabloids and barstool journalists over egg that sometimes. Sari winning the league cup and Europa did nothing for him at Chelsea , why would it do anything for Ole in people’s eyes when league and CL is all that really matters ?

I was disgusted after the Villa game, especially when Liverpool messed up against Brentford. United had a really good opportunity to build up some steam and f**ked it away. The Villa game was the first time I’ve felt that Ole took a proper punch in the gut this season and to me it’s kind of strike one.

Pressure will now start to mount against Ole, particularly as it’s the league and CL tor the next 8 weeks. If they limp out of the group and are 4+ points off top , it will prob be enough for the glazers once they are in top 4. Before people start getting angry and lash out at Ole , let that sink in. These decisions and targets are set and supported by the owners. Stop getting angry at Ole , get angry at the people who continually allow the bar to remain at a level that makes it hard for the team to get back to the top of the sport.

In terms of whether I am Ole out/in , I find it hard to be looking for a manager to be sacked when the team is so close to the top, regardless of opposition played and performance to date. I wouldn’t be gutted if they got an alternative manager who made sense but not a new manager for the sake of a new manager. I’d be very concerned that any manager who hasn’t managed at a top club would be over awed with the squad and expectations.

I despise the Glazers and whatever decision they take I am cynical of the reasons. Wouldn’t be surprised if they replaced Ole just to keep fans off their backs. But Unless there is clear evidence that players are getting unsettled (or have lost confidence in manager), I still think Ole deserves more time (or rope) to see if he can navigate the next 8 weeks.

Ole got the job because there was no plan, and no will to go after a bigger name. Season was written off and Ole was tasked with “making players happy again”. That was his brief. When he did “just enough”, they gave him a bumper contract and convinced themselves it was all going to work out somehow. Look at contract extensions and the kinds of players the clubs seems to hold onto (like martial/Lingard ).

There is such a disconnect among people about United. Just put in a top manager and things will fall into place seems to be the sense based on looking at every top club outside of United (where it works that way) and ignoring the question of how much of Uniteds problems are down to owners failure to have a successful football infrastructure to create an environment for success for any manager. The owners also don’t care about winning anything, I’d also argue that there’s been times players are bought to make the owners/Woodward look good more then players bought for what the team needed.

People quote the money spent but don’t ask how United consistently under performs , under all managers to date. Why is that? Just picking the wrong manager? No other super club suffers such an unfortunate situation that every manager it chooses fails relative to its relatively low standards (top 4).

Ole represents what United, the club, is under the glazers. Di Maria, Ronaldo and Pogba signings are examples of how much the club makes signings to give the illusion of having big ambitions. United don’t make Vidic or evra signings , always the obvious ones. I’ve said it so many times before, any other business and there would of been massive over hauls of the football infrastructure, given such the wastage being done.

Uniteds spending , by sheer amount since 2013, should of at the very least yielded a league or CL proper challange. That’s the minimum but it hasn’t, managers in charge does not explain that.

Deep down every United fan knows this, but we have to resign ourselves or more accurately delude ourselves to believe that there is a top manager out there who can compensate for all the incompetency behind the scenes. I mean the fact Ole has actually on paper worked out ok and not been a complete disaster tells it’s own story.

The one Saving grace is that on paper anyways the squad would be strong for any manager to take over. Ultimately the over seeing the building of the squad maybe Oles legacy and a new manager may actually may take the team another level.

But until United wins a league or CL, the owners in my mind are as out of their depth as Ole was when he took over. They still haven’t found a way to use uniteds vast wealth in a way every other super club does. Without SAF , they have consistently failed to harness a culture of success with poor managerial and squad Additions.

I agree with a lot of that but not all. I think less has been expected of Ole up to this season for good reason.

Football aside , do you honestly think we could of expected more then 3rd and 2nd in league under Ole or any other manager for that matter? Do you really think the squads before this seasons were ones that should of done an awful lot better then they did?

Play better football perhaps, maybe get more points on the board , but actually seriously challenge for a league or CL? I don’t disagree with your targets but I do disagree with the idea that Ole has had some squad that was vastly better then it showed the last two seasons.

In terms of how much better the club is with transfers , well the jury is still out for me. It’s improved relative to the mess it was before Ole but there’s still signings made that are head scratchers and not necessarily what’s needed. People seem to be happy to presume it was part of the managers plan but I don’t share their confidence.

Do you think there is any chance Ole was “lumped” with Ronaldo? I mean the player wasn’t actually part of the plan and he wasn’t necessarily the top player we needed in that position. How could anybody think a manager is “lumped with Ronaldo?” I hear some cry, but it’s not about the player, it’s about their motives for coming to the club and whether or not the club actually really needs them.

Im not asking were you happy with his signing , we all were. But is there any chance , like Mata, Di Maria, Pogba , Sanchez, that Ronaldo was signed because he could be signed and because it would be a popular signing? Nobody was upset with any of those signings at the time and it’s hard to call into question the signing of such high profile players. But 4 out of That list were players desperate to leave their clubs (Chelsea wanted rid of mata) as quickly as possible. Maybe it’s just a coincidence but it does make you wonder how often United sign players who are not necessarily part of any plan. Do Chelsea, City and Liverpool keep signing top players because they can or do they have more targeted approaches to signing players?

Again, I’m not saying I’m unhappy with Ronaldo (delighted with it) signing or that it excuses the under performance, but I’m saying that it is certainly a very similar signing United has made in the past that suggests things may not have changed in the background as dramatically as we all hope.