Mayo GAA Discussion

So how you rate our forwards play on Saturday? What do you think forwards should do? Is it acceptable in an AI final that you have at least 3 forwards who can't shoot, score, tackle, or with little vision or composure on front of goals? And that the same players have been the same in every final they played in?

The ability to score would be the first on my list. Composure next. Vision. pace, movement, and in the modern game the ability to tackle and stop your opponents defenders coming out with the ball.

How many of our forwards ticked most of those boxes?

For most of the game I saw Tyrone half backs in particular waltzing out with barely a hand laid on them because certain (older) players dont have the physicality or pace to do anything about it.

How many players were we carrying on Saturday?

Do you think selection was all over the place? And Tyrone had a field day against our tactics.

And we tried to go through a championship season with only one recognised midfielder and no-one to come off the bench in that crucial area.

Our final performance was a mess.

It passed a lot of them by in fairness.

A lot of the old failings that has cost Mayo dear over the years.

Some people both on the pitch and the sideline didn't show up.

Tyrone were simply the better team and the better led team.

Once again the old reliables showed up like they have in every past All Ireland they have played.

Keegan, Durcan deserve better no more that Barrett, Boyler, Higgins, Clarke did from their years of service.

Other younger lads like Coen, Conroy and O'Donoghue did their bit, but there were way too many passengers.

The supposed new best midfield pairing in the country looking hopeless, one couldn't even properly punch someone and the other took every wrong option available.

Saturday kinda puts the Galway and Dublin's teams' displays in perspective.

Galway were terrible in second half and so were Dublin, who will be back next yesterday once they have stopped fighting with each other.

Horan simply does not have the ability to win and sadly saturday proved it once again.

At times it looked clueless.

I have defended O'Shea and no one can fault his effort and dedication for the cause, but seriously as a forward/midfielder of his supposed stature to have played in 7 All Irelands (including replay) and to have never scored is a damming indictment. Boyler, Higgins, Vaughan, Leroy have scored more than him.

How he remained on the pitch is one of the mysteries of the year.

To dispatch Dublin, who granted weren't great, but still a hugely psychological monkey to get off the back and then go out and play like they did in the final to a team with no associated baggage is gut wrenching.

The greatest agrees.

See O'Shea is coming in for the predictable enough criticism. There are people who would be giving out about him no matter what way he played.

Like I said, he wasn't our worst player on the day. Not by a long shot. That title is split between Conor Loftus and Matthew Ruane, I'm afraid.

The problem O'Shea has is that the game has steadily moved away from the type of player he is over the last few years. Pace and pure athleticism has replaced stature and even strength in some ways. Look at young Murchan for Dublin - he's a wee slip of a thing, but he can burn anyone you like for pace all day. Or Brian Fenton - this man is a pure athlete. O'Shea is unfortunately not an athlete like Brian Fenton, and pace has always been a problem for him. It didnt matter so much a few years back, because the big stocky midfielder was still somewhat the order of the day, but things have been moving away from that as far back as even 2016.

It's very unfortunate and I think he has been a great player for us over the years and dug us out of many holes. I don't actually think he owes anyone an explanation or an apology or whatever it is people want from him. I think he has been probably had an unfair level of expectation placed on him by people who saw him as a minor and think for some reason that he needed to be the greatest player of all time.

The game is moving away from his type of player though. That is unfortunately a fact. I find it sad as I feel he has always tried very hard, and I've never agreed with the level of criticism he gets, especially from people who have never kicked a ball let alone played consistently at the top level. But it's difficult to see where he fits into the game now.

At the risk of sounding like a certain pundit who I don't always agree with, there just isn't a high performance culture at the moment in Mayo.

You have half the team who are playing high performance and the other half are not. No hope of an AI while this continues. Mayo seems to be stuck in a rut which they can't get out of, good enough to get to finals but don't have that X factor to get them over the line. I don't see next year being any different.

I wouldn't be surprised if 3 of those 4 you listed retired now. No 1 priority must be unearthing and developing a keeper, It's been a huge weakness for over a decade.

Clarke was a fine keeper but his kicking at times was not at the required level. Hennely is a better kicker but his decision making has cost Mayo goals in 3 finals.

you and gaelic football is like you and plumbing, you are out of your depth.

Conor Mortimer was a fart of a player. a strong breeze would turn him over. Insanely accurate. nothing more

Donal Vaughan, red card, all ireland final,

Andy moran, one of the best. His best days came when he was well north of 30. a very intelligent player.

Liam mchale, the self confessed greatest coach in the country. cant remember who else you mentioned. but yes, Lee is the best EVER for MAYO

Are we talking early rounds in Connacht when every Mayo player looks like the GAA equivalent of Messi, or All-Ireland finals such as last Saturday when a large number of players did next to nothing and yes couldn't shoot, pass, tackle, with no pace or stamina?

Because at this stage, no one gives a damn about how good some players are in the Connacht championship.

The curse is in the players heads. They always find a way to lose in AI Finals.

Tyrone won in 2nd gear.

Wouldn't say Tyrone won in 2nd gear but they won without hitting 5th anyway. Conor McKenna was very poor I thought but they had a very good bench coming in in fairness.

Neutral view here (although I was rooting for Mayo, can't begrudge Tyrone that AI either - they had by far the hardest route of anyone in this or recent years to win that out). I wouldn't lay the blame at AOS at all, I think everyone is latching on to the stat about not scoring in a final. Whilst it is a poor one, didn't think he was awful on Saturday.

Your midfield was completely steamrolled. Was it Loftus that missed the open goal on the rebound in the 1st half? Brilliant defending but you got to bury that.

Hennelly wasn't great for the first goal but awful for the second, completely caught in no man's land, was never getting to that ball in, should have stayed on the line. Also missed 2 of 3 long range frees I think.

Well said and agreed there is something not great at the heart of Mayo GAA as we've seen numerous times over the years. Ego has a lot to do with it. Being in a position to get tickets for games is also a major part of it.

Personally I think we missed an opportunity with Kevin McStay a few years ago. The fact that the players dictated they didn't like him and/or his coach says it all, ie calling the shots despite not having won anything of substance.

Certain high profile players like Horan because Horan won't drop them. Maybe time for an outside manager or at the very least like you say a manager without favourites.

Agreed. This "Culture nonsense" is just that - nonsense.

Especially coming from Brolly. Would love to have read the article he had pre prepared had Mayo won.

All of these hindsight merchants are the same - full of guff.

There are so many variables in a 70 plus minute match - culture doesn't come into it at all - tis pure nonsense.

Well every county seems to have a core ethos that doesn't change very much. Kerry for example value forward over all else and defense often costs them especially recently. As long as Ive followed Mayo football and I go back to early 80s, Mayo have produced very good defenders but always seemed to lack uninhibited forwards. It was Tyrones superior shooting that won the game. Our half backs are better shooters than our forwards. I don't know for sure that this is down to culture at development level but I suspect it is. Mayo seem to value S+C over skill.

What is culture though? I don't think "not training basic skills" - which is a nonsense anyway, is in any way linked to the type of culture Brolly was trying to talk about.

Look, if these lads weren't taught basic skills they wouldn't have made two all ireland finals. It's that simple.

Is it a "pressure" thing? Is the weight of expectation too much on these shoulders? It's much more likely be a mental thing, than a physical/cultural/ skill based issue at this point.