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F1 2021 Round 12: Belgian Grand Prix

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,712 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Jesus you have some nerve calling drivers at the top of there profession below par just because of a crash. Anyone in a race car can crash from the very top drivers to the ones in the lower teams. You know even Hamilton ( I may not like him but is one of the best) has crashed and said it was unsafe out there



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,712 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    I would assume giving the half points had .5 in them then they should



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If they were at the top of their profession they wouldn't be in the W Series.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,709 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    I appreciate you using capitals. They say the best form of flattery is imitation. Thank you



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭quokula


    So what you’re saying is, if that happened in the dry, then they should not race at Spa in the dry? Because it clearly had nothing to do with the weather.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭quokula



    Clearly it would be simply impossible to race with poor visibility.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,045 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    < deleted post >

    Post edited by flazio on

    This too shall pass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭quokula


    This is what the most experienced driver on the grid Kimi Raikkonen had to say, pretty much sums up my thoughts exactly


    I think the spray was bad, but honestly, any track, any time we are in the wet, there's always going to be spray and it's not much better. If we take Imola [earlier this season], at the start, we could not see anything. Probably most of the guys who were not first, or in the first couple of rows, couldn't see anything. Once you go it starts clearing up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,884 ✭✭✭SureYWouldntYa


    But in Imola it stopped raining, therefore giving it the chance to clear up

    It never stopped in Spa, and you're dealing with a long track where wet laps would be taking the guts of 2 mins 30, so you'd have parts of the track being rained on for maybe 2 mins at times without a car coming through to clear any water



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,045 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Which is why just for the race yesterday I was proposing Masi designate the Eau Rouge complex a hazard on the track, wave double yellows from the pitlane exit to the start of the Kemmel straight, so no overtaking, reduce speed and single file through there and let them race on the rest of the track.

    This too shall pass.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Joeface


    I thought the footage linked above was mad to see driving in and showed it was possible , I can never remember the races that far back so had to look it up


    19 laps behind the Safety car before racing got underway . maybe that is the root they should have gone but again Spa is different in length by some margin which means there really wouldn't have been any clearing surface water over a lap length, And there were a number collisions in the race 5 retirements based on them , were the spending caps and penalties to the same level as today . There is a lot at risk for the teams with stuff going wrong .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,884 ✭✭✭SureYWouldntYa


    But with double yellows people will still be pushing to try and get any advantage they can, see all the cars speeding up to turn 1 in Baku after Max’s tyre blew up and basically ignoring the yellow flags



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭quokula


    Formula 1: grip is fine but we can’t race because of visibility

    Formula 3: on the same track on the same day

    image.jpeg image.jpeg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    It’s a fair point that a race was held earlier that day on the same track in the same conditions! Not saying it was or wasn’t safe enough to race (my minds not made up) but the conditions remained the same all day and they managed to put a race on! The F1 cars surely don’t kick up much more water??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 770 ✭✭✭barryribs


    Brazil 2016 is a more recent example and was very similar conditions to yesterday, there were rivers running across the track that day. After running behind the safety car there was enough water cleared for racing after 8 laps. The race is best remembered for Max having one of the greatest drives ever to third and an insane catch after aqua-planing. There were a lot of accidents, which happen even in the best conditions, but it's racing. And for everyone saying that the drivers are the ones to be listened to, some of them ran inters that day and ended up in the wall.

    The right decision yesterday was to run 10-15 laps behind the safety car, then another 10 behind VSC to see how conditions went, then make a decision to either stop the race or continue under green flag conditions. The FIA would have been seen to have done the right thing by the fans at the track, and not the farce of running two laps to tick a box.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,687 ✭✭✭Corben Dallas


    Very poor show by F1 yesterday, 2 Laps behind the Safety Car is not a Grand Prix, Happy for George Russell but another PR disaster for F1.

    Race should have run on Monday. Full refund to fans who cant stick around, i'm sure they could 'get' marshals. Unless forecast was the same for Mon, then wait a day and run full race.

    In the US they cant run races (Nascar etc) on Ovals in the rain so they give fans a 'Rain Check' which can be used for next years race, or turn up when they run the race on Monday. They also did it recently with Daytona 24hrs (race was run on Mon) F1 could take a learn from the US on how to look after its fans.

    Lewis is right fans should get a full refund..... and Max and himself (Belgium is 2nd home GP for Dutch fans) should make a gesture and stump up a few million each for the loyal F1 fan's refunds.



  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    One of the first things they need to do is put the start times back an hour to where they used to be. Gives more time and flexibility if there are issues. Not just for rain either, track or barrier damage is what I'd have in mind. I think NASCAR used to run as support in Canada, one of those hits a barrier at 120mph you've got a big job on. Bahrain last year was what, an hour and a half of a delay? Most races wouldn't fit in the 3 hour running time in that case. We've seen in Australia and Brazil run close on light even within the 2 hour race time.

    Though I'm sure someone will be along soon enough to tell me I just hate change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,729 ✭✭✭FrostyJack


    I thought I was going mad with the start time times had change. Is it for foreign audiences or so Sky can fit more adverts in between waffle?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,816 ✭✭✭TheChrisD


    Yea, they kinda do. Much faster speeds, much larger tyres with far more tread, so way way more water being displaced into the air.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,281 ✭✭✭✭Jordan 199


    Untitled Image

    .....



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    That’s true! I’d love to see a comparison to see how much of a difference is made! Surely it’s something the FIA have already looked at tho



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,990 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Race control didn't have a grip on the rules yesterday imo.

    I think they were should have been challenged on a good few points.

    The idea that the race distance be reduced by 1 lap for every delayed start - Brindle was on the money here staring that this rule related to where the cars needed to go around again for a second or 3rd formation lap. Yesterday they shortened the race by a lap everytime they announced a delay.

    The whole Perez fiasco. Red bull contacted masi and told him they would be withdrawing due to excess damage. He later came back in with much confusion. I figured Perez would have needed to have been allowed to overtake the safety car to do his extra lap like many safety car restarts but there was no mention of that being required with Masi firstly giving a definite no to Perez rejoining and later saying it's ok.

    I thought the rules re race running time and overall race time were straight forward. My understanding which may be outdated was that race was 2 hour max running with a 4 hour period to run the race once started as per Canada 2011. I don't know what went on yesterday. It started but it didn't and then they decided to stop the clock too.

    Masi just doesn't appear to have the experience to get it right under pressure like Charlie Whitting did. I realise they have a whole team but yesterday was bad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    It’s not the first time this season Masi has looked out of his depth. Is there a reason they can’t start the races earlier in the day? Especially if it looks like loads of rain is on the cards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,635 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    TV schedules probably main big one. Sky has a dedicated TV channel but others are scheduling it alongside other programmes and sports events. Moving it at short notice is bound to affect viewing figures and ad revenue. Plus loads of people who would tune in an hour into the race would be miffed.

    This weekend was unfortunate but it was just a freak of nature that prevented the race going ahead. Knee jerk reactions aren't the solution either and chopping and changing the start time with little notice would make anyone happier (apart from the fans in attendance). I just chalk this weekend up to one of those rare things. Hopefully they can find come up with some sensible contingency plans for the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,723 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    what a farce, though not exactly unexpected with F1 these days



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 770 ✭✭✭barryribs




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,635 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yeah and it's easy to call it a farce, but what should they have done on the day apart from changing the weather?

    It was just an extraordinary situation and it was very disappointing. But that's about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,637 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    It is remarkable that this is the first time in more than 10 years we have lost any racing, and the first time in a long long time we have lost all the racing!

    I personally enjoy changeable conditions more than dry warm races. So I am happy to accept cancellation once a decade in return for generally more exciting racing!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Obviously TV scheduling is a big one. The races used to start earlier in the day years back. Maybe a midday start would be better for every race. It’ll be early for some audiences but might still be worth it to give more of a window for the race.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭quokula


    They could have made an honest attempt at running the race.

    F1 has raced in far far worse conditions many times before. F3 raced in those same conditions on that same track on that day. The race leader said grip levels were totally fine, which nobody really disputed. The most experienced driver on the grid said visibility levels were no worse than any other wet race. A lot of the comments coming from other teams and drivers were entirely partisan - people like Russell not even pretending they wanted anything other than a short procession that guaranteed a podium, while those who were in position to lose ground on their championship rivals wanted the entire race nulled out, so a lot of those comments really have to be taken with a large pinch of salt.

    They could have done what they've done for every other very wet race in the last couple of decades and stayed behind the safety car for 10-15 laps to see if a dry line formed, and to be ready to immediately start racing when the rain eased (because there were times when it eased, just not long for enough for the whole 15 minute notice that's needed to get the cars running again), or they could have showed some initiative and ran double yellows on the wettest part of the circuit and allowed them to race on the other 95% of the track.

    They also could have known what their own rules were rather than looking like complete idiots when it came to the simplest of questions like whether the race had started, how many laps were left or how much time was left.



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