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2020 officially saw a record number of $1 billion weather and climate disasters.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Edit to above post. These are the actual anomalies over the last month. The above shows temperature trend rather than deviation.

    Untitled Image


    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,472 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,472 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I request peer reviewed research instead of random links because the peer reviewed research has already had qualified people spending hours checking the work to make sure the data matches the conclusions, and I have very good reasons for not trusting you to follow up on my questions. Dumping links is easy because you can just ignore any comments afterwards.

    Primary data is the starting point of science. The conclusions from peer reviewed research are the outcome of that data being assessed against our collective knowledge

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    I don't know. NOAA does not (as far as I can tell) make this clear, just as they did not with the previous version of these maps which they ran for years.

    But this long-winded link might give a hint: Description of the Version 3.1 NOAA Coral Reef Watch Daily Global 5km Satellite Coral Bleaching Heat Stress Monitoring Product Suite Climatology

    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    I don't post 'random links'. If there is any flaw or misleading information in any of those links I posted earlier, then please call it out.

    New Moon



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,472 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If the conclusions were not supported by the data, then the paper either would not have passed peer review, or there would be other papers challenging the results by now.

    If you have these links, send them to me and I'll happily retract my reference and revise my view, otherwise, your opinion is just waffle.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,472 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    so what is your aim in posting sst anomaly gifs if you don't know what the baseline is? That's a fundamentally important element when you're arguing about multi decadal trends like Climate change

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,472 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    My point is that I try really hard to post data that has already been validate by experts (peer reviewed) you dump random graphics without even checking what the baseline for the anomaly is, thereby making everyone else do the work you couldn't be arsed doing. You have zero accountability for the information you repost on the internet. Just like all those unqualified bloggers who are never held accountable for their errors.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    There is no aim other than to show what they are and where in the weeks beforehand. The maps are from NOAA, whom I am sure you trust, given that they are all sciencey and stuff, so take up your gripe with them.

    And I already know what are 'fundamentally important elements' are, so enough with the preachy tone.

    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Wow, somebody is angry today...

    I'm not the who has been giving out misleading and false information here.. you are. If you don't like to be called out for doing so, then don't do it in the first place.

    New Moon



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,472 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    so the anomaly baseline is in the previous few weeks?

    How ludicrous is that? In the northern hemisphere SSTs get hotter until the summer ends and then get colder as autumn and winter kick in.

    How on earth could any sensible person think that this anomaly gif is anyway useful in the context of this argument?

    You might as well take a picture of a cloud and use that as an argument against climate change

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    I'm quoting the paper you yourself referenced, which states that the observations don't show what is claimed to be already happening. It the same with many other features too, where the only possible attribution comes down to some very shaky model outputs with ranges as wide as the Atlantic.

    Now you're already attributing a future even (Ida) to CO2 without even one shred of evidence. You dismiss my opinion (based on actual facts, which I have always referenced) as waffle, which is a bit rich, considering.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    There are several maps posted above spanning two different reference periods. What more do you want? They didn't show what you wanted so now you've gone off on some unrelated tangent.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,472 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    in a warming world, the observations lag the model predictions.

    We cannot use double blinded experiments on planetary systems. This is why we use Models. The models are our best way of assessing risk and responses to theoretical changes.

    Which part of the above do you disagree with?

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,472 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I never analysed the results of those gifs because the base period was not provided, but I guarantee, than if these were the evidence provided in a peer reviewed research paper awaiting validation, that these would be first the questions asked of the researchers, and they would be obliged to justify why they chose these data, these baselines and to demonstrate how that data supports those arguments. If you don't like these questions, then I'm sorry, but that's the standard. you need to emulate if your arguing against other peer reviewed papers (in reputable journals)

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    I can't make it any clearer, but let me try.

    We are being told that X weather event has become more frequent/severe due to climate change. In most cases this X event is a weather event that has occured in the past (e.g. Cat 4-5 hurricane landfall in Louisiana), but now the implication is that its occurrence these days is due to a theoretical increased probability of these events happening, not actually any observed increase.

    Tell me, how did such hurricane landfalls occur back 150 years ago if you're now putting them down to increased sea temperatures? Just taking hurricanes as an example.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,472 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    at least you're honest.

    Now that you've agreed you're clueless, do you think you might like to defer to people who are regarded as experts in their fields?

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    The two charts I posted clearly had the reference periods on them (and I also stated them for good measure). Are static maps not good enough now?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Gulf of Mexico annual temp (monthy or daily not availablve from this site) for 1969, the year of Camille, which brought a central low pressure of 900hPa and recorded winds of 200mph in August.

    paos.png

    And long term temperature trend in Gulf SSTs.

    ersst5_natlan-ced_sstanom_annual.png

    From this 'random link' here:

    Climate Reanalyzer

    New Moon



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    More than once, and only recently, you have given out misleading information on here and also accused me of saying things that even your own evidence that you produced says I didn't, so I'd quit with the preachy tone if I were you.

    But a question I will put to you... do you ever do you own research on anything? or do you just leave everything to your chosen 'experts'? to do?

    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,472 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    also keeping it super simple.

    If extreme events required multiple rare confluences to happen, then they happen over long timespans, but happen infrequently. If you make any of those required events less rare, then all else being equal that same extreme event becomes more common.

    Its as simple as that. One of the most common requirements for rapid intensification is hot SSTs

    It the rest of the requirements are random stuff like wind sheer, the PDO, the NAO, ENSO, jet stream being in a certain position etc etc etc

    Locking the SSTs to be generally much warmer than preindustrial means that one of the random events becomes a constant instead of a potential blocker. So what is left to decide is the intensity of the event, rather than whether or not it forms

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Where did the warm SSTs come from in 1856 or 1893?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,472 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Or because I obviously can’t keep things simple. The odds of rolling a double 6 on 2 sets of dice are 2 times in a hundred. I’d you make both dies 7 sided, the odds of rolling 12 or greater changes to more than 8%

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,472 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I don’t do my own research. I’m not a researcher and have nobody to peer review my findings. I do try my best to fact check my claims and other people’s claims

    This involves checking others sources to make sure they are based on peer reviewed science as much as possible

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    I do do my own research, because as someone who has gone through the rigmarole of academia, as I am sure you have and others on here who I do know have, that is what I was taught and trained to do, so I too will 'fact-check' (a totally meaningless media created term - which they have more than once, had to retract their own 'fact-checks' for being totally wrong ) where I see fit.

    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,472 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Local variability

    ya know. Weather. Climate is the average of local weather over decades. anthropogenic Global climate change is the progressive changes to local climates caused by the global average temperature increasing caused by the greenhouse effect

    This is basic stuff

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,249 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    It's 'weather' when I can't explain it, but 'climate' when I think I can.

    That is how 'basic' this really is.

    New Moon



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,262 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    And this local variability ceased to exist after the mid-20th century, right? It fits the story for explaining old events but not the new.



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