Making my automatic gates a bit smarter..

Dr4gul4 · 16-08-2021 11:26AM #1

Currently I have a set of gates which are controlled via a "nice a6f" board. nothing overly fancy here, 220v in, 24 v out to the Entrance photo cells, and to a GSM dialer which allows us to call a number and the gate open ( magic )

However ! I also have a set of internal photo cells, which do nothing, they should open the gates to let people exit, but only when we're at home, and only after say 10 seconds of the NC relay being in a NO state.

So, I though maybe i could use shelly 2.5 ( with esphome flashed on it) but, i have some issues, mostly around if the 25 v is dc or ac, the boards paper work says 24v dc with a max output on "21" of 200 mA. and sure enough, My shelly 2.5 gets some power, and i can test the step by step function "28" via the inbuilt shelly button, but the 2.5 never connects back to home assitant.

I've tested locally with a normal every day 25 vdc power supply, and sure enough it powers up, and connects back. but space is not really all the available to add a 220 to 25 dc, plus if the board only takes vac then my shelly 2.5 is useless.

I packed the shelly 2.5 as i had hoped to use sw1 for the photo cells, and sw2 with a standard magnetic contact sensor, thus knowing when a person is waiting to leave, and the state of the gates, open or closed.

So roll forward 24 hours, and i'm looking at the shelly uni, appears to support vac, but i think it's limited to 100mA, i'm not sure if it's enough to trigger "28" the step by step contact, and normally it would receive 200 mA ( uni's send 100mA i think,. )

So my first question is .. whats going to happen if i simply power the uni off the 24 vac , and try and trigger the step by step process ? nothing ? smoke ?

Photo of the A6f board attached.

IMG_20210815_173007.jpg

17-08-2021 07:21AM

It would be best to get the Shelly to drive a relay which provides the electric gate control panel with a dry contact (volt free). This would be considered standard practice.

Dr4gul4 · 17-08-2021 10:56AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765236#Comment_117765236

I'm not 100% clear here, are you referring to perhaps using a shelly 1 at the driver to send the signal to "28" on the board, and simply use an alt device like perhaps the 2.5 to monitor the photocells + contact sensor for their state.

I dont think the shelly 1 can be powered by the 24 vac, nor can it output on 24vac, where as the uni appears to cater for this perfectly.

The only minor concern i'd have right now is, current out of the UNI is only 100mA, but it prob makes no diff if the V is a constant 24Vac

17-08-2021 12:02PM

Maybe I have misunderstood you.

Can you draw your proposal out?

Then I can comment.

Thanks.

Dr4gul4 · 17-08-2021 01:51PM

Ms paint FTW !

17-08-2021 03:53PM

Ok, a few stuid questions:

1) I have read your opening post a few times and I still don't understand what the Shelly is supposed to do. Can you explain?

2) I think your issue is that you are unsure of the voltage supply requriements and the current consumption for the Shelly. Is that correct?

Dr4gul4 · 18-08-2021 07:10AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117767848#Comment_117767848

I can see im being a touch too vague.

I have space and power issues, the A6 board can supply 24 VAC, so this limits me to the shelly uni, the uni in turn needs to watch the Photocell relays for motion, and based on that, send a live signal to "28" on the A6 board. The contact sensor is used to understand the state of the gates, open or closed.

My main concern was the Max200mA output on the A6 which would carry the 24vac to "28" normally , the shelly uni has capaciy for 100mA on each of it's outputs.

18-08-2021 10:45AM

Ok, that is clearer. Thank you.

My suggestion would be to select a mains voltage Shelly. Although I have no expereince with Shelly a quick Google tells me that there are versions that cna be supplied at 230VAC. That solves your first problem with reagrds to the A6 board (which I assume is the gate controller mother board).

Next I would get the Shelly outputs to energize relays. I would select relays that have coils that consume less than 100mA. These relays can provide dry contacts (volt free) to terminal 28 on A6.

Thsi is how we achieve this in industry where we would describe this solution as "using interposing relays to interface between different control systems".

Does this make sense?

Dr4gul4 · 18-08-2021 11:24AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770869#Comment_117770869

I follow your suggestion, but i think i'm limited as per device, the uni's are the only devices that can send 24vac, to the A6 Terminal 28, and they cannot be powered by 230 vac :( althernative devices such as the shelly 1 is the ideal solution here as it has dry contacts, but cannot export at 24 vac only 24 vdc . :(

18-08-2021 12:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771058#Comment_117771058

What do you mean "limited as per device"?

If you use the Shelly 1 then it can energize a 24VDC coil of a relay. The contacts on the relay can be used to switch 24VAC that it sources from terminal 21 or 22 for the A6.

Dr4gul4 · 18-08-2021 12:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771359#Comment_117771359

https://shelly.cloud/knowledge-base/devices/shelly-1/#wiring

I think it requires 110 - 240 Vac to fully energize a shelly 1 and the output is always the same as the input 110 or 240 vac. I cannot get back down to 25 vac to send that signal to to A6.

And if i try to power a shelly 1 or ( 2.5) from the 21 or 22 terminals, the relay will function ( local button on the shelly works ) but the inbuilt web serevr + wifi does not.

This is why I was forced then to look at the uni device as it can be powered by 25 vac, send the same, and also has multiple connections for external devices , e.g photocells and magnetic contact sensor.

18-08-2021 02:19PM

Well if the output is the same as the input on a Shelly 1 then you simply need a relay that has a coil that works at the supply voltage i.e. 230VAC. This relay can then switch a different voltage which can be sourced from the A6. I will post a drawing if I can work out how.

18-08-2021 02:54PM

This shows the Shelly controlling a relay by switching on or off a 230V supply to the relay. This relay is shown switching a completely different voltage (24VAC) that is derived from the terminal 21 on A6. When the relay is energized terminal 21 is connected to terminal 28.

In other words, relay "R1" has a coil that operates at mains volatge (in Ireland this is 230V AC at 50 Hz). It mechanically drives the normally open dry conatct (also known as "volt free") shown on the right hand side. The coil voltage has nothing to do with the volatge it is switching.

Does this make sense?

Dr4gul4 · 18-08-2021 03:06PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117772322#Comment_117772322

Makes perfect sense, the issue would be what is R1 , as in what product.

18-08-2021 05:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117772383#Comment_117772383

There are lots of products that can do this. Here is one example:

https://ie.rs-online.com/web/p/non-latching-relays/0348813/

As can be seen under "specifications" on the above link the coil is 230VAC.

Note: This relay requires a base which would need to be purchased separately.

Making my automatic gates a bit smarter..

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