General Rugby Discussion 3

Theyre law trials for season but most should be confirmed as full changes after the season unless something major comes up that didnt in the initial trials they held with them in play

Ah the old "5 seconds" to use it rule again .

Ball at the back of a ruck.

Scrum half hunched over for about 10 seconds.

Ref "use it now 9"

Another 10 seconds pass.

Scrum half looks up.

Another 5 seconds pass.

Finally scrum half box kicks it.

I'd love to see this rule being properly reffed.

More rules for rucks when they don't enforce the ones already present. You want better rucks, revert to the old-school style where there were no hands allowed. Shoulders above hips. Allow rucking for players lying on the wrong side.

What do you mean by ELV or full law changes? ELVs were the specific laws trialled in stellonbosch first then trialled globally.

Its a global trial. no harm in reducing some of the issues of the scrum that are causing issues in the pro game(yet these law trials are at all levels of game and where the issues are not near as bad in club rugby....) I dont see the changes making union anything near like a knock off of league but its only a year whats the harm in looking at something a bit differently??

Union has so many issues in Australia and it was going so strong in early 2000s its such a shame to see how poor its doing in so much of australia though can be said that Australian union is at fault for lot of that as they never really expanded the game beyond a few select schools in many places....

Mods Should these law posts not be in either the laws thread or rugby 101 thread??

The real issue with the scrum is just how long it takes. If you look at games in the pre professional era there was barely a stop in play for a scrum, lads just went in, packed down, and it was done and the game restarted. Obviously there is a safety issue around the scrum that needed to be addressed and so a more formal ref managed procedure has become the norm but it's absurd to spend 5 or more minutes on multiple reset scrums when there isn't even a competition for the ball off the feed, just a competition for a penalty. Incentives are arseways here. One big advantage a team can gain from a scrum is another stoppage for a penalty or for a reset. SA used it masterfully to waste time and most good teams do the same any time they've got someone in the bin. People are quick to dismiss criticism of the scrum because league, but if you were to sit down and formalize rugby union laws from scratch there is no way the scrum would operate like it does currently.

Resets just seem like a ref copping out much of the time. Also, when there is no competition for the ball on the feed it seems to me its not really a scrum! But the alternative is for refs to reset no more than once, then make the call as to who gets a free kick or a tap and go. There is absolutely no reason that rugby pros get the scrum wrong time and again. And it's not as if the current situation is always 'fair'. Refs often making really marginal calls to award a penalty when things have gone on too long, the laws should limit the ability of teams to to waste time around the scrum. Currently that aspect of the game is accepted as some sort of natural phenomenon.

I don't disagree with your assessment, but much of what you fear is already happening except it takes longer. It's currently often a coin toss as to which team the ref will penalize when a scrum goes down. WE saw it with the Lions where refs on commentary were disagreeing with the ref on the field over which team should be pniged, often a ref resets when there has clearly been a binding offense or an elbow on the ground, I haven't seen the stats but I guess that in test matches far more than 50% of scrums are either reset or result in a penalty. And on the pros ability to execute a scrum, if it's not the case that they are doing something wrong then why all the resets? Imagine if the same were to happen with lineouts? And if one front row is significantly weaker or less skilled than the other, that most often results in a penalty too because they get blown away. Ultimately the scrum laws are a work in progress that aren't nearly there yet. I think a straight feed would be a good start though, genuine competition to strike the ball might just ease the pressure on the front row or de-emphasise the importance of a big shove on contact, often the area where things break down. Regardless though, as I said earlier, without a straight feed its something other than a scrum.