FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

timmyntc · 15-06-2021 01:09PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Mica was only part of the problem. The Sunday Indo has it that the cement content was only 50% of what it should be 3% instead of 6%. However local knowledge by builders and house owners was lacking here as well. When I was building I was advised away from a local block/Concrete. There was three other suppliers so I used one of them.

The regulator shod have flowed it up with the block supplier and got the company director's disbared by the director of Corporate enforcement. The problem in Ireland is lads can walk from things like that too easy.

I do not believe that house owners should be 100% compensated. They should definitely have to make a contribution as well after l they are going to end up with a house build to 2020 standard rather than 1990's standard. Pyrite owners should have been forced to do that as well

Agree on the bolded - however requiring homeowners who through no fault of their own now have a house thats crumbling, to pay up to fix it is madness.
Most people cannot afford it - what are they to do? Sell? Who would buy it?

The houses are unsellable, no bank will lend against them, the mortgage still needs paid. People would be more than happy with wall replacement or rebuild to existing standard - however the current scheme makes it difficult to impossible to achieve that, not to mention the costing.

There should be exceptions made to allow rebuilds to the existing spec of the house, it would save costs but also be fairest. What is not fair or just is expecting pensioners to just go homeless because they can neither sell nor afford to fix a house that shouldnt need fixing in the first place.

blanch152 · 15-06-2021 01:14PM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

They just said the buses have triclours in the windows.

Can someone explain??

They are proud of their country.

Hence, they don't blame the state for their woes.

Have I got it right?

Larbre34 · 15-06-2021 01:22PM

It is a little odd to blame the State for their woes, when in this case the State had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Is this a protest against a redress scheme of free cash from fellow taxpayers just not being generous enough?

Calhoun · 15-06-2021 01:26PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Why should the taxpayer carry the can for builders cutting corners? Does their insurance not cover this?

The government should and does have laws protecting the tax payer. They need to enforce their building standards and make sure the builder pays up.

The tax payer carries the can when they fail to do their job. Sure Donegal county council still contracts primarily with the main culprit in the mica stuff.

Bass Reeves · 15-06-2021 01:29PM

timmyntc wrote: »

Agree on the bolded - however requiring homeowners who through no fault of their own now have a house thats crumbling, to pay up to fix it is madness.
Most people cannot afford it - what are they to do? Sell? Who would buy it?

The houses are unsellable, no bank will lend against them, the mortgage still needs paid. People would be more than happy with wall replacement or rebuild to existing standard - however the current scheme makes it difficult to impossible to achieve that, not to mention the costing.

There should be exceptions made to allow rebuilds to the existing spec of the house, it would save costs but also be fairest. What is not fair or just is expecting pensioners to just go homeless because they can neither sell nor afford to fix a house that shouldnt need fixing in the first place.

Life is never fair hard cases make bad law. How many of these people with these houses choose the cheapest building price or builder. If going direct labour did they choose cheapest block and concrete provider. Like I said I was warned off a block& conc supplier. I used a few after for to build AJ's they were away sifter block. Never no issues with them and many people used them but they were a softer block

timmyntc · 15-06-2021 01:34PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Life is never fair hard cases make bad law. How many of these people with these houses choose the cheapest building price or builder. If going direct labour did they choose cheapest block and concrete provider. Like I said I was warned off a block& conc supplier. I used a few after for to build AJ's they were away sifter block. Never no issues with them and many people used them but they were a softer block

So several thousand cases make bad law too?
You seem to be constantly insinuating its the homeowners fault for "cheaping out" and buying defective blocks - do you have even a shred of proof of this, or is it just a scenario you have invented to support your bias?

FrancieBrady · 15-06-2021 01:41PM

For those taking a swipe at SF for bandwagoning on the mica issue...I give you FG.

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1404784615873781764

ineedeuro · 15-06-2021 01:42PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Because they are concerned about the most recent polls, are weak generally, and thinking about the next election.

Again, this issue has nothing to do with Government or the taxpayer. These people should be taking this up with their builders/suppliers via existing legal avenues.

They are going to lose more voters if they just continue to bend over for every whim people come up with,.

As I said estate near us has pyrite, they now have to change a load of roofs. Builders fault, expect in a few months they will be walking on the Dail looking for free roof's

Fann Linn · 15-06-2021 01:43PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

For those taking a swipe at SF for bandwagoning on the mica issue...I give you FG.

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1404784615873781764

Lisa Chambers FF was at it too last night. We're only short a Green now and the wish that they were in govt and be in a position to do something.

FrancieBrady · 15-06-2021 01:46PM

ineedeuro wrote: »

They are going to lose more voters if they just continue to bend over for every whim people come up with,.

What are you telling us for...should you not be onto FG/FF/Greens about this, they have already admitted liability for this by introducing a redress scheme in the first place. Jeez Louise!

Calhoun · 15-06-2021 01:59PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What are you telling us for...should you not be onto FG/FF/Greens about this, they have already admitted liability for this by introducing a redress scheme in the first place. Jeez Louise!

Let's not forget that the excuse given allot of times for the price point of houses in Ireland is because of the regulations they need to adhere to, regulations that are supposed to prefect home owners.

When this happens and you then fail to hold the builders to account the buck does stop with the government.

I would love to see them go after the builders to recoup cost but I doubt it would happen.

ineedeuro · 15-06-2021 02:10PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

For those taking a swipe at SF for bandwagoning on the mica issue...I give you FG.

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1404784615873781764

I don't care who is up playing to the crowd, SF/FG/FF/Green I couldn't care less.

It is still the same answer, this is not a government issue

ineedeuro · 15-06-2021 02:11PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What are you telling us for...should you not be onto FG/FF/Greens about this, they have already admitted liability for this by introducing a redress scheme in the first place. Jeez Louise!

It's a discussion forum, is that not the point of boards? to discuss topics?

RandomViewer · 15-06-2021 02:36PM

ineedeuro wrote: »

It should be
Homeowner to builder
Builder to builder supplier
Supplier to manufacturer

That is the route these people should be following. At no stage should they be marching on the government. Plus I repeat again it shouldn't matter who is in government.

Blocks are bought directly from the Manufacturer, seems to be an effort here to distract from that,

FrancieBrady · 15-06-2021 02:40PM

ineedeuro wrote: »

I don't care who is up playing to the crowd, SF/FG/FF/Green I couldn't care less.

It is still the same answer, this is not a government issue

How could an issue the government have already taken liability for NOT be a government issue?

FrancieBrady · 15-06-2021 02:43PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Blocks are bought directly from the Manufacturer, seems to be an effort here to distract from that,

Blocks for my house were ordered direct from supplier 'Wrights'. They said they conformed to specs for the product.

I had no other choice but to trust that regulations were being adhered to.

RandomViewer · 15-06-2021 02:49PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Blocks for my house were ordered direct from supplier 'Wrights'. They said they conformed to specs for the product.

I had no other choice but to trust that regulations were being adhered to.

Looks like we are going to have to pay for lab tests on everything we buy from now on, we can no longer assume that anything is fit for purpose and regulations are just nice words written on a spec sheet that have no purpose in reality, All those pieces of consumer law passed over the years could just as easily be the assorted works of Enid Blyton going by the views of the frap room

timmyntc · 15-06-2021 02:50PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Looks like we are going to have to pay for lab tests on everything we buy from now on, we can no longer assume that anything is fit for purpose and regulations are just nice words written on a spec sheet that have no purpose in reality, All those pieces of consumer law passed over the years could just as easily be the assorted works of Enid Blyton going by the views of the frap room

If only there were people in charge of checking and enforcing these regulations..

FrancieBrady · 15-06-2021 02:52PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

Looks like we are going to have to pay for lab tests on everything we buy from now on, we can no longer assume that anything is fit for purpose and regulations are just nice words written on a spec sheet that have no purpose in reality, All those pieces of consumer law passed over the years could just as easily be the assorted works of Enid Blyton going by the views of the frap room

Now if it were 'financial regulations' that were ignored or broken the power swap would have no probs spending taxpayers money to sort that out. If it is Joe and Mary Soap, that's a different matter!

Bass Reeves · 15-06-2021 05:03PM

timmyntc wrote: »

So several thousand cases make bad law too?
You seem to be constantly insinuating its the homeowners fault for "cheaping out" and buying defective blocks - do you have even a shred of proof of this, or is it just a scenario you have invented to support your bias?

You made a reference about what a pensioner should do. That the hard case. On the mica thread a few posters referenced that lads chasing walls had a Cassiddy price and another block supplier price as it seems you chase these blocks with a hammer and cold chisel. Therefore there was info out there.

Calhoun wrote: »

Let's not forget that the excuse given allot of times for the price point of allow of houses in Ireland is because of the regulations they need to adhere to, regulations that are supposed to prefect home owners.

When this happens and you then fail to hold the builders to account the buck does stop with the government.

I would love to see them go after the builders to recoup cost but I doubt it would happen.

Most of this was during the same time period during the 90's and noughties. Its is only since Priory Hall that regulation has really tightened up and increased in cost

ineedeuro · 15-06-2021 05:13PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You made a reference about what a pensioner should do. That the hard case. On the mica thread a few posters referenced that lads chasing walls had a Cassiddy price and another block supplier price as it seems you chase these blocks with a hammer and cold chisel. Therefore there was info out there.

Most of this was during the same time period during the 90's and noughties. Its is only since Priory Hall that regulation has really tightened up and increased in cost

If you could chase the wall with a hammer and chisel then the company and builder knew the block was sh*t

RandomViewer · 15-06-2021 05:17PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You made a reference about what a pensioner should do. That the hard case. On the mica thread a few posters referenced that lads chasing walls had a Cassiddy price and another block supplier price as it seems you chase these blocks with a hammer and cold chisel. Therefore there was info out there.

Most of this was during the same time period during the 90's and noughties. Its is only since Priory Hall that regulation has really tightened up and increased in cost

Blocks from 2018 have tested for Mica,

FrancieBrady · 15-06-2021 05:19PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You made a reference about what a pensioner should do. That the hard case. On the mica thread a few posters referenced that lads chasing walls had a Cassiddy price and another block supplier price as it seems you chase these blocks with a hammer and cold chisel. Therefore there was info out there.

Most of this was during the same time period during the 90's and noughties. Its is only since Priory Hall that regulation has really tightened up and increased in cost

Sorry the 'Everyone else was being let down by regulation so you are gonna have to suck it up' excuse, doesn't cut it.

Calhoun · 15-06-2021 05:25PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You made a reference about what a pensioner should do. That the hard case. On the mica thread a few posters referenced that lads chasing walls had a Cassiddy price and another block supplier price as it seems you chase these blocks with a hammer and cold chisel. Therefore there was info out there.

Most of this was during the same time period during the 90's and noughties. Its is only since Priory Hall that regulation has really tightened up and increased in cost

We still had regulations and consumer protection laws in place. We also have recent cases of it being found in blocks ect.

Fundamentally if we are reliant on private sector to solve the housing crisis as we have been for so long we have to take some responsibility here from a government perspective.

The responsibility would obviously lessen if they did something about it.

RandomViewer · 15-06-2021 05:54PM

Charlie Chuckles talking but saying nothing on the news

Cluedo Monopoly · 15-06-2021 06:54PM

Fann Linn wrote: »

In fairness we had the chance to get rid of the Seanad but too many were swayed by the great and the good.

There have been 14 reports on overhauling the Seanad over the past 80 years but one after another has simply gathered dust. Thats how FFG work.

The people voted to reform the Seanad because they don't trust politicians but FFG like things exactly how they are (e.g. 11 Taoiseach appointments for favourites).

Shebean · 15-06-2021 07:00PM

Isn't the mica issue that the people are not being made whole by the builders so they are taking it up with government? Not the governments fault, but it is the governments responsibility to ensure redress. That's why we have regulations and consumer affairs and the like.

15-06-2021 07:31PM

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

There have been 14 reports on overhauling the Seanad over the past 80 years but one after another has simply gathered dust. Thats how FFG work.

The people voted to reform the Seanad because they don't trust politicians but FFG like things exactly how they are (e.g. 11 Taoiseach appointments for favourites).

What are you on about? The vote was to keep or abolish the Seanad. There wasn’t a third option, ie to reform the Seanad, which I believe would have been the preferred result.

Cluedo Monopoly · 15-06-2021 07:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What are you on about? The vote was to keep or abolish the Seanad. There wasn’t a third option, ie to reform the Seanad, which I believe would have been the preferred result.

You have a naive memory of the referendum. The rhetoric at the time was that FG would reform the Seanad if the referendum was lost. Enda made sure it was lost by taking charge of it himself. A protest vote in many ways.

Straight away Enda promised to reform it and we all knew he was talking nonsense. He initiated the Manning report and then shelved it. Typical FFG tactics.

Nobody voted to keep it in it's current form.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20341515.html

The Taoiseach was only interested in a “box-ticking” exercise, rather than exploring ways of widening the electorate and powers of the Seanad at the cross-party gathering, Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin said.

Mr Kenny avoided any discussion of key elements of a reform package put together by Senator Maurice Manning such as expanding the vote in Seanad elections to all citizens of the Republic and the North as well as Irish passport holders world-wide.

“This was just a box-ticking exercise. The Government has not taken a view on the recommendations of the working party they set up. It is very disappointing. It turns out the Government has not even discussed the Manning report.

“They clearly want any substantive reform kicked-off until the next government, they did not want to talk about anything of significance. We need to bring in direct election for the Seanad, but it is now very unlikely there will be any reforms before the next election,” Mr Martin said.

Mr Kenny told opposition leaders that the Dáil was set to hold a debate on Seanad reform in September.

The Taoiseach suffered a humiliating blow in October 2013 when voters decided in a knife-edge result to retain the upper house after Mr Kenny let a strong poll lead for abolition slip away.

The Taoiseach admitted that voters had given him a “wallop” as he pledged to accept the result and seek reform of the Seanad.

Pro-Seanad campaigners countered that it was an important piece of the democratic landscape and needed reform

8 years later...zero reform.

New Politics....Same Old Politics.

ineedeuro · 15-06-2021 08:39PM

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

You have a naive memory of the referendum. The rhetoric at the time was that FG would reform the Seanad if the referendum was lost. Enda made sure it was lost by taking charge of it himself. A protest vote in many ways.

Straight away Enda promised to reform it and we all knew he was talking nonsense. He initiated the Manning report and then shelved it. Typical FFG tactics.

Nobody voted to keep it in it's current form.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20341515.html

8 years later...zero reform.

New Politics....Same Old Politics.

The vote was keep it or dump it. Nothing about reform.

People voted to keep it. You are correct people voted against it because of Kenny but talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Still baffled today as to why people voted to keep it. Waste of money

FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

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