Connecting landline to gigabox router via cat5e

repub · 19-05-2021 11:25AM #1

Hi

I had a plan with Eir where I could get landline and fibre internet. My fibre comes in and plugs into powered fibre to cat5e convertor which runs to the sitting room router. seperately there is a hall phone with a cat5e running out to the box where the fibre comes in.

When the vodafone gigabox was installed after i changed provider my landline stopped working. The eir engineer had I think sent the phone signal down the cat5e and joined it from the hall phone to the cat5e going from outside the house to the sitting room router. I'm pretty sure I can see the join outside in the box. Somehow this was working fine with just a cat5e going into the back of the eir router. Vodafone told me connect the rj11 phone cable direct to tel port of router obviously but i dont want to cos I will have to run a cable from the hall to the sitting room- what a pain.

How was previous config working? How can I make existing set up work with vodafone gigabox? Please see image attached. Thanks!

s5xGmvN

repub · 19-05-2021 11:31AM

Johnboy1951 · 19-05-2021 12:17PM

I have never heard of a connection like you describe ........ maybe someone else has.

VF will deliver the phone service to their router ...... this is normal practice for all ISPs.

Is there a copper line to your house?

Did eir provide the phone over a copper cable?

It seems eir might have done so, hence the two separate connections ..... broadband and phone.

.

repub · 19-05-2021 01:49PM

When they were installing fibre initially they used the copper line to pull through the fibre through the underground ducting going out to the pole. This is why I am pretty sure there is no copper still!

I am wondering is there some other type of connection where PSTN can work through the fibre network?

Johnboy1951 · 19-05-2021 02:22PM

repub wrote: »

When they were installing fibre initially they used the copper line to pull through the fibre through the underground ducting going out to the pole. This is why I am pretty sure there is no copper still!

Was that the eir installers?
I understood they were supposed to leave the copper line in place.

I am wondering is there some other type of connection where PSTN can work through the fibre network?

Not that I am aware of.

Others might comment.

emaherx · 19-05-2021 07:23PM

Eir use copper for phone service alongside their fiber broadband. Vodafone however do not, they provide a VOIP phone service, so you must connect the phones to the RJ11 ports on the router.

You can still use cat5e cable for the phones but it needs to connect between the phone and the router.

niallb · 19-05-2021 10:29PM

Could you not just move the Vodafone Router to point A?

Plug the patch cable from the sitting room router directly to the wall.
Unplug the patch cable from the "fiber to cat5 converter" and plug it to the LAN port on the router.
Take another patch cable directly from that "converter" to the WAN port on the Vodafone Router.

That should put the Vodafone Router with its telephone ports beside the cat5 run going to your phone. Should be able to put an RJ11 plug or adapter right there and no need to run a cable between sitting room and hall.

jester77 · 19-05-2021 10:42PM

What type of a phone is it? Maybe you need an ATA box to convert the signal

niallb · 20-05-2021 01:59PM

jester77 wrote: »

What type of a phone is it? Maybe you need an ATA box to convert the signal

The ATA is built in to the Gigabox.

dam099 · 20-05-2021 03:36PM

niallb wrote: »

The ATA is built in to the Gigabox.

And they wont give you the SIP credentials so any other ATA is useless anyway even if you wanted to use an alternative.

Johnboy1951 · 20-05-2021 04:56PM

dam099 wrote: »

And they wont give you the SIP credentials so any other ATA is useless anyway even if you wanted to use an alternative.

A very good reason for separating the phone and broadband providers - keep full control yourself.

jester77 · 21-05-2021 11:17AM

dam099 wrote: »

And they wont give you the SIP credentials so any other ATA is useless anyway even if you wanted to use an alternative.

oh that sucks big time. Vodafone here in Germany give you the SIP credentials if you ask, or at least they used to anyway.

repub · 24-05-2021 08:14AM

thanks everyone I have got some info. here that i really didnt know anything about.

The reason I wont put it all in the hall is cos I deliberately wanted wired connections in the sitting room without needing any wifi.

It seems that there is a technical possibility to do what I am asking but vodafone wont do it. The Vodafone FTTH with 3rd party router + VOIP thread seems to relate to this to.

Plenty to chew on. I'll post any positive news.

emaherx · 24-05-2021 10:36AM

repub wrote: »

thanks everyone I have got some info. here that i really didnt know anything about.

The reason I wont put it all in the hall is cos I deliberately wanted wired connections in the sitting room without needing any wifi.

It seems that there is a technical possibility to do what I am asking but vodafone wont do it. The Vodafone FTTH with 3rd party router + VOIP thread seems to relate to this to.

Plenty to chew on. I'll post any positive news.

Simplest solution is put router beside phone and get a gigabit switch with as many ports as you need in sitting room.

niallb · 24-05-2021 03:21PM

repub wrote: »

...
The reason I wont put it all in the hall is cos I deliberately wanted wired connections in the sitting room without needing any wifi.
...

This could be a lot simpler than you realise.
You can have wired connections in the sitting room via the cat5 run going from A to B.

Read my post from last week and see if you can set things up like that.
All the CAT5 you need to change should have plugs in the right places.

Is there also an old phone socket in the hall with the phone plugged in to it?
If there is plug the phone out and plug it in to the back of the gigabox to one of the telephone sockets.

repub · 28-05-2021 08:28AM

Hi, I have done that and of course it works. my issue is not wanting to run the telephone cable from point C to B(because it's totally awkward) it used to all work fine on the Eir router and I'm dead sure I dont have a copper line that point C would be connected to it is defo joined into the start of point B.

repub · 28-05-2021 08:33AM

emaherx wrote: »

Simplest solution is put router beside phone and get a gigabit switch with as many ports as you need in sitting room.

how would my gigabit switch work in the sitting room though. the fibre comes into a cat 6 converter and back out of the house to connect to the cat 6 going to the sitting room. if i connect it to the cat 6 going to the phone and put my router there, how would i have wired connectivity in the sitting room? Point A-B wouldnt be connected to anything.

emaherx · 28-05-2021 08:44AM

repub wrote: »

how would my gigabit switch work in the sitting room though. the fibre comes into a cat 6 converter and back out of the house to connect to the cat 6 going to the sitting room. if i connect it to the cat 6 going to the phone and put my router there, how would i have wired connectivity in the sitting room? Point A-B wouldnt be connected to anything.

Where is the " fibre to cat6 converter"? is it in the hall beside the phone?
If so short cat 6 (or even 5e) lead from that converter to the WAN port on router, then connect cable from the sitting room switch to any LAN port on the router and phone to phone port on the router.

You can't use the same setup with Vodaphone as you did with Eir as they provide the phone service in a different way.

If you can't get all of the cables to connect as you like ant the phone is the only issue, then simply use DECT wireless phones or a DECT converter for your wired phone.

niallb · 28-05-2021 05:01PM

repub wrote: »

how would my gigabit switch work in the sitting room though. the fibre comes into a cat 6 converter and back out of the house to connect to the cat 6 going to the sitting room. if i connect it to the cat 6 going to the phone and put my router there, how would i have wired connectivity in the sitting room? Point A-B wouldnt be connected to anything.

Your picture says there's a cable between A and B ?
You said it was patched to the WAN port.

Did you try the steps I posted a few weeks ago?
I'm still unclear as to whether or not your telephone is near the "cat6 converter" or not.
Basically what I was suggesting - exactly as @emaherx just did - was this:

Put the gigabox beside the converter (it's called an ONT)
Put a cable between the ONT and the WAN port on the gigabox.
Plug the CAT5 from the wall into a LAN port on the gigabox.

Surely you then have a cable with internet available on it in your living room?
Am I missing something on your layout?

repub · 28-05-2021 09:47PM

niallb wrote: »

Your picture says there's a cable between A and B ?
You said it was patched to the WAN port.

Did you try the steps I posted a few weeks ago?
I'm still unclear as to whether or not your telephone is near the "cat6 converter" or not.
Basically what I was suggesting - exactly as @emaherx just did - was this:

Put the gigabox beside the converter (it's called an ONT)
Put a cable between the ONT and the WAN port on the gigabox.
Plug the CAT5 from the wall into a LAN port on the gigabox.

Surely you then have a cable with internet available on it in your living room?
Am I missing something on your layout?

Ok so, I've realized I am stupid but I think we all knew that to start with. After pulling apart connections in the hall and checking outside again there's a blue and a white wire going out to outside and it's joined to a cable running outside to so guessing the phone has been dsl all along and eir had let me basically have two lines.

So back to the problem, agree I should just have router in hall at this stage but then my line to sitting room is a separate line how do I get connectivity to it.(for wired connections) ? Fibre would come into ONT which would connect to hall line and router would be plugged in there. Can I connect a switch to ont and then connect it to sitting room line and then put a gigabit router in sitting room too?

Johnboy1951 · 28-05-2021 10:01PM

Ont to WAN port of router in hall using Cat5e cable.
Existing Cat5e cable from Sitting room to one of the LAN ports of the router in the hall.
Phone plugged into the router in the hall.

Now you have internet in the Sitting Room.
If you require more than one device connected by Cat5e in the sitting room then you need to add a 'Switch' there ..... this is a network switch which takes one wire in and share that amongst many.
You buy a network switch to suit the number of devices you wish to connect in the Sitting Room ---- 5, 8 16 etc...

repub · 28-05-2021 10:08PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Ont to WAN port of router in hall using Cat5e cable.
Existing Cat5e cable from Sitting room to one of the LAN ports of the router in the hall.
Phone plugged into the router in the hall.

Now you have internet in the Sitting Room.
If you require more than one device connected by Cat5e in the sitting room then you need to add a 'Switch' there ..... this is a network switch which takes one wire in and share that amongst many.
You buy a network switch to suit the number of devices you wish to connect in the Sitting Room ---- 5, 8 16 etc...

I cannot get my cat5e from sitting room to lan port of router in hall as that cable runs from sitting room to box outside of house. Can't connect to cable run to hall as that's the line the ONT is using.

emaherx · 29-05-2021 06:52AM

Copper line going outside won't have an active phone line on it, its probably just the old Eir line. Vodafone are not going to provide you with VoIP and POTS. Even if you had Vodafone coming in on copper with FTTC they would still provide their phone service by VoIP and no phones would work connected directly to the copper like your old Eir service.

Where exactly is the ONT? is it in the hall beside the phone? if so it should be just a case of disconnecting the CAT6 from the ONT and connecting it to the LAN port, then get a new short cable from ONT to WAN port on router. Don't know what box this cable runs to outside, maybe it just runs through it? as there should be no other box or device between ONT and Router WAN port.

repub · 29-05-2021 08:10AM

emaherx wrote: »

Copper line going outside won't have an active phone line on it, its probably just the old Eir line. Vodafone are not going to provide you with VoIP and POTS. Even if you had Vodafone coming in on copper with FTTC they would still provide their phone service by VoIP and no phones would work connected directly to the copper like your old Eir service.

Where exactly is the ONT? is it in the hall beside the phone? if so it should be just a case of disconnecting the CAT6 from the ONT and connecting it to the LAN port, then get a new short cable from ONT to WAN port on router. Don't know what box this cable runs to outside, maybe it just runs through it? as there should be no other box or device between ONT and Router WAN port.

That would work if the fibre came into the hall and the ONT was there but it's not. The point of entry is a hockey stick into the wall box at the side of the house. As there is no power there they have drilled a hole into the kitchen and plugged the ont in under some kitchen cabinets. The cat5e from the ONT then runs back out to the wall box where there are two cables, A-B and A-C. Currently it's joined into the A-B cat5e and has active internet go to sitting room. If I switch it to A-C I then can have router in hall for the other line A-B is inactive.

emaherx · 29-05-2021 08:56AM

repub wrote: »

That would work if the fibre came into the hall and the ONT was there but it's not. The point of entry is a hockey stick into the wall box at the side of the house. As there is no power there they have drilled a hole into the kitchen and plugged the ont in under some kitchen cabinets. The cat5e from the ONT then runs back out to the wall box where there are two cables, A-B and A-C. Currently it's joined into the A-B cat5e and has active internet go to sitting room. If I switch it to A-C I then can have router in hall for the other line A-B is inactive.

Sounds like DECT wireless phones would be the simplest solution then. (Or get new cables run)

There is also a phone version of the homeplugs that could work. But personally I'd just get an extra cable run.

niallb · 30-05-2021 08:42PM

repub wrote: »

I ...Can't connect to cable run to hall as that's the line the ONT is using.

Yes you can.
Even if the cable is very short it could be lengthened more easily than running other cables

Several people have already outlined a good solution for you, but we don't know what you've tried and what hasn't worked.
It might not be quite as straightforward as plug in plug out, but the concept is there.

Unplug the cable from the ONT and put it into a LAN port on the gigabox.

Get a short ethernet cable and connect it between the WAN port on the gigabox and the ONT if you can access the back of the cabinet.

Now the gigabox is in the hall and
the other end of the cable in the sitting room has an internet connection.

That blue pair of wires going outside is dead on the outside, but it connects to your internal telephone wiring. If you cut it and put an RJ11 plug on the inside part you can plug it into one of the two telephone sockets on the gigabox and any internal phone equipment you have will work again.

Do you know anyone who can help with that and might have a crimping tool? If not, you can buy a phone extension kit in Dealz or a pound shop which will let you screw the blue/white cables to a box so you can use an ordinary phone cable to finish.

niallb · 30-05-2021 08:51PM

repub wrote: »

The point of entry is a hockey stick into the wall box at the side of the house. As there is no power there they have drilled a hole into the kitchen and plugged the ont in under some kitchen cabinets. The cat5e from the ONT then runs back out to the wall box where there are two cables, A-B and A-C. Currently it's joined into the A-B cat5e and has active internet go to sitting room. If I switch it to A-C I then can have router in hall for the other line A-B is inactive.

Any chance you could post some photos?
This sounds very different to anything I've seen for fiber installations. The cable running out from the ONT must be going to your living room if that's where the gigabox is working. Don't overthink what's in between!

Maybe you could pull a cable through to connect a pair to the hall via A-C and still leave the gigabox at the ONT.

repub · 31-05-2021 02:03PM

The diagram attached is current scheme.

From all the useful input I have got back, I have formulated a solution. Gosh it seems simple...but my main aim was not drilling holes everywhere. Its hard to explain without very detailed plans thanks for all the help I have been furnished with lots of knowledge. I didnt make it too clear A-B and A-C are completely separate lines. I was using the ABC for location identification and still am

sorry.. but hopefully this clears it up

So the main thing is to move the gigabox to beside the ONT, (which is under a kitchen unit cos thats the only place that was near to where the fibre was coming in where the cat5e cables are run from) but then running my connections out from the gigabox. So this way I can run my rj45 from the router to the wall box by drilling out(they already had drilled for the other connection) and then joining into the A-C connection which is already a phone connection i just have to crimp it. Which I havent really done before. So basically making the rj45 from the router thru to point C all one continuous connection.

Then with the ONT connected direct to the WAN run the LAN cable from it and it will automatically send the signal down A-B. In the sitting room then put in a Gigabit switch which hopefully will work and provide me with wired connections to my devices there. Also I have a cable run in underground ducting from an outside office up to outside the sitting room . I just need to drill through to connect it to the switch...that's why I was quite anxious to avail of my wired connections in the house. Lastly I will then just put a switch/wifi extender in the office and hopefully I am all done.

I will have VOIP and wired connectivity everywhere with the option wifi. Who thought changing provider could create this extra work!!

Johnboy1951 · 31-05-2021 02:51PM

1. Ignore the copper cable coming in as it is no longer used for Voice. If it is connected to something you wish to use, then disconnect it. (Do not cut it so short it cannot be used again ..... you might change provider in the future and wish to use it.)

2. Move the Gigabox to a location it can be powered, connected to Ont and also connected to the Telephone wiring. Maybe at 'A' or 'D'.

3. Connect the existing ethernet cable that runs to 'B' to a LAN port of Gigabox.

4. 'E' can be connected either to a Gigabox LAN port or to a port on whatever switch you place at 'B' ....... whichever is the more convenient.

Connecting landline to gigabox router via cat5e

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