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Are we excited yet?

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    #512
    yaknowski
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭yaknowski


    https://www.reuters.com/technology/chinese-financial-payment-bodies-barred-cryptocurrency-business-2021-05-18/

    This could be a large barrier given the Chinese hold a lot of crypto?

    "China has banned crypto exchanges and initial coin offerings but has not barred individuals from holding cryptocurrencies.

    The institutions must not provide saving, trust or pledging services of cryptocurrency, nor issue financial product related to cryptocurrency, the statement also said."


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    #513
    FileNotFound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    mcriot29 wrote: »
    I have heard ICP could be about to get bought by coinbase if this happen the price will rose a lot could be a good time to buy

    Just looking this up and it already launched on May 10th?

    Or is this something different?

    I see they are to add Doge soon...


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    #514
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    FileNotFound wrote: »
    Just looking this up and it already launched on May 10th?

    Or is this something different?

    I see they are to add Doge soon...
    Launched on CB Pro on 9th, up to $520 I think and then dropping since, but expected good in long run, a lot to iron out though.


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    #515
    bankboucy
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭bankboucy


    yaknowski wrote: »
    https://www.reuters.com/technology/chinese-financial-payment-bodies-barred-cryptocurrency-business-2021-05-18/

    This could be a large barrier given the Chinese hold a lot of crypto?

    "China has banned crypto exchanges and initial coin offerings but has not barred individuals from holding cryptocurrencies.

    The institutions must not provide saving, trust or pledging services of cryptocurrency, nor issue financial product related to cryptocurrency, the statement also said."

    Yeah no sh!t….bro

    I tried to tell you all on this thread three days ago:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058186169

    You might remember it as the thread with excessive use of the phrase “laser beam eyed” :P

    Coincidence China drops the hammer after Colonial Pipeline & Soveirgn attack on our little island, I dont believe in conincidences.

    BUT let me guess……buy the dip, ride the rip…….…their just trying to tank the price of BTC so they can load up themselves with it in their own sovereign treasury :rolleyes:


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    #516
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bankboucy wrote: »
    Yeah no sh!t….bro

    I tried to tell you all on this thread three days ago:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058186169

    You might remember it as the thread with excessive use of the phrase “laser beam eyed” :P

    Coincidence China drops the hammer after Colonial Pipeline & Soveirgn attack on our little island, I dont believe in conincidences.

    BUT let me guess……buy the dip, ride the rip…….…their just trying to tank the price of BTC so they can load up themselves with it in their own sovereign treasury :rolleyes:

    Lol. Does anyone want to tell him or will I


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    #517
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,127 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    The below is predicated on the assumption/understanding I had which was that the poster was saying that a dip was coming and to wait to buy in that dip but also to hold onto what they currently had.
    I understand you are basing it from the view that they were saying the dip is going to come. As I said that's a misconception as few can time that. In fact, being able to time it is what makes traders the big bucks.

    1) Jimmy sits on his 100 and waits for the dip to buy two assets
    2) Johnny buys one asset now for 50 and waits for the dip to buy the other one.

    Jimmy is unhedged. Johnny has hedged albeit partially. But it is still a hedge. Do you agree? He has hedged with the asset itself!
    I don't agree. That's not a hedge.

    Jimmy is unhedged. Johnny is not hedged either.

    If Johnny buys now at 50. And the price drops to 40. He as lost 10 in value.
    If he buys again at 40. He has still lost 10 in value. Deciding to buy in or not again doesn't offset his lose, therefore it is not a hedge.
    Next:
    3) Mary sells her asset immediately to convert it to another 50 cash. She decides to sit on it to wait on the dip to buy 2 assets.
    4) Anne keeps her asset and waits on the dip to buy the other one.

    Mary is speculating. Anne is again (partially) hedging.
    "4" is effectively what I thought the fella was advising.
    Mary is speculating. In a way she is shorting, but not really. She ends up +10 if it drops.
    If somebody insists there will be a dip they should absolutely do what Mary does.

    Anne is in the same situation as Johnny once he buys at 50. As above its not a hedge.
    Which is a perfectly reasonable strategy. But in doing it she is basically admitting - I am not 100% certain that this will work so I don't want to take the full risk. Now, that poster was pretty definite in his advice. If you are really that definite, you do what Mary did! And that was all I was saying.

    If Anne say's she will buy another asset the nest month regardless of the price. I understand you are saying she is spreading her risk, but that isn't hedging. It's Dollar Cost averaging (DCA). But that only applies if she buys when it rises to 60 also.
    For completeness I include
    5) Peter spends his 100 Euro now and buys 2 assets. He is fully hedged.
    Not a hedge.

    You can't hedge an asset by buying the same asset or repeating the same trade.





    A hedge would be:
    Johnny buys an asset at $50. He also takes out a put option at at $50 (cost of $1).
    If the price rises to $60, his profit is $9.
    If the price falls to $40, he exercises his put and recoups his $50. He makes a $1 loss. He can then buy at $40 like Jimmy ($41 effective).

    Here he used a put option to offset a potential loss. He to follow both Jimmy and Anne's strategy for the cost of $1. That's a hedge.


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    #518
    bankboucy
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭bankboucy


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Lol. Does anyone want to tell him or will I

    Please do tell me how this is positive news for BTC?

    Finish the sentence below for me so I can understand this properly:

    China banning financial institutions and payment companies from providing services related to cryptocurrency transactions i.e. buying and selling of crypto, is good for general crpyto pricing and further adoption because………”fill in the blank please”


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    #519
    Jeff2
    Registered Users Posts: 7,017 ✭✭✭Jeff2


    Coins in music in the last while. :D

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-fFHeTX70Q


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    #520
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bankboucy wrote: »
    Please do tell me how this is positive news for BTC?

    Finish the sentence below for me so I can understand this properly:

    China banning financial institutions and payment companies from providing services related to cryptocurrency transactions i.e. buying and selling of crypto, is good for general crpyto pricing and further adoption because………”fill in the blank please”

    It certainly wasn't good news when it happened years ago. The anti speculation law is old news but the article suggests it is a brand new ruling. Its click bait.


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    #521
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 2,989 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    So to summarize btc is still the king. No matter what any other crypto currency claim why it is better or this and that...

    "It's said that Osea is the "soul of the world"; if the island is sick, the whole world will be sick."

    (exchange Osea with bitcoin) :D

    When BTC drop everything is going down too. Hold if you can buy more at the dip and hang tight for another rise. It already happened few times so most likely it will happen again. And if not, then we can amuse grandkids about tales of how we nearly become rich back then...


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    #522
    MyPeopleDrankTheSoup
    Registered Users Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭MyPeopleDrankTheSoup


    sorry for the drop guys, I bought €1500 of BTC a few weeks ago and just bought another €1000 yesterday. The universe dictates that all investments must plumment once I dip my toes in. Already down 20%! Oh well, I'm in it for the long haul, I'm not touching this for years.


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    #523
    FileNotFound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    MyPeopleDrankTheSoup wrote: »
    sorry for the drop guys, I bought €1500 of BTC a few weeks ago and just bought another €1000 yesterday. The universe dictates that all investments must plumment once I dip my toes in. Already down 20%! Oh well, I'm in it for the long haul, I'm not touching this for years.

    Haha Just dipped my toe in for first time and experience so far is a bit negative.

    Sure see where it goes - big drops though. Was it due to the chinese announcements?


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    #524
    OEP
    Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭OEP


    I had to sell some Ether! I have been holding since 2017 but I couldn't take it anymore, it was starting to stress me out. I've too many big things coming up in my life that require money that I couldn't face another bear market without making any money. I still hold over 50%, hopefully this isn't the bear market but for my peace of my mind I had to sell something.


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    #525
    Unearthly
    Registered Users Posts: 7,984 ✭✭✭Unearthly


    So much bad news in the last few weeks.

    I'm just waiting for pintman paddy to show up to complete the bingo fud card


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    #526
    Royale with Cheese
    Registered Users Posts: 9,035 ✭✭✭Royale with Cheese


    I bought €10k worth of eth yesterday for my first ever crypto purchase, it's going well thus far. Thank fúck for the €5k sepa limit on ptsb accounts :-)


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    #527
    mcriot29
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭mcriot29


    Royale with Cheese wrote: »
    I bought €10k worth of eth yesterday for my first ever crypto purchase, it's going well thus far. Thank fúck for the €5k sepa limit on ptsb accounts :-)

    Did you get a ada I think there will be more to be made in that in coming years but Eth is still going to be good

    Icp is about to be bought by coinbase so it may go up a lot ,zil is another one to watch very cheap right now .


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    #528
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    Royale with Cheese wrote: »
    I bought €10k worth of eth yesterday for my first ever crypto purchase, it's going well thus far. Thank fúck for the €5k sepa limit on ptsb accounts :-)

    I it is likely a good time to get in (not financial advice!), but yeah I wouldn't do it as a Big Bang move so that limit might be a good thing :-)


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    #529
    SkyRevNet
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭SkyRevNet


    mcriot29 wrote: »
    Did you get a ada I think there will be more to be made in that in coming years but Eth is still going to be good

    Icp is about to be bought by coinbase so it may go up a lot ,zil is another one to watch very cheap right now .

    What makes it "cheap"? From what I can see, there is no real metric to measure a cryto currency's fundamental value.

    With stocks and shares, usually you look at future profitability of the company, and that's what drives the stock price. If a company's shares is trading at a low multiple of it's profits, then it's "cheap".That's not the case with crypto. It's pretty much driven by pure speculation. Everyone is trying to get rich before the music stops and the last person is left holding the bag. Even if the blockchain itself is incredibly commercially successful, there is no reason to think that that means the currency will go up in value. That would be like saying that Tesco Points will go up in value if Tesco becomes a commercial success (crude example but it hits the point I'm trying to make).

    Don't get me wrong, I definitely think there is value in crypto (as a store of value), especially the early movers. But it's hard to see how some coins have market caps in excess of billions when they have little to no utility and do not provide any sort of profits/income in the event that the blockchain is commercially successful.

    I have some money in Ethereum and a couple of the other large currencies because I can see them being used as a "store of value" much like gold/silver. But only a couple of coins (more than likely the larger, established coins with finite or close to finite supplies) are likely to be in a position to do that.


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    #530
    BrandonBay86
    Registered Users Posts: 496 ✭✭BrandonBay86


    1,000,000 sats acquired at $40,240.

    Buying the dip has worked for me for years, long may it continue.


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    #531
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    BTC is reaching the price at which Tesla made its large acquisition.

    Do people think they have sold everything already? Are about to sell? Are holding?

    If I am thinking rationally I'd say Musk sold the whole lot before his Tweets. But it makes me nervous having "Musk" and "rationally" in the same sentence!


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    #532
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,170 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Mellor wrote: »
    I understand you are basing it from the view that they were saying the dip is going to come. As I said that's a misconception as few can time that. In fact, being able to time it is what makes traders the big bucks.



    I don't agree. That's not a hedge.

    Jimmy is unhedged. Johnny is not hedged either.

    If Johnny buys now at 50. And the price drops to 40. He as lost 10 in value.
    If he buys again at 40. He has still lost 10 in value. Deciding to buy in or not again doesn't offset his lose, therefore it is not a hedge.


    Mary is speculating. In a way she is shorting, but not really. She ends up +10 if it drops.
    If somebody insists there will be a dip they should absolutely do what Mary does.

    Anne is in the same situation as Johnny once he buys at 50. As above its not a hedge.



    If Anne say's she will buy another asset the nest month regardless of the price. I understand you are saying she is spreading her risk, but that isn't hedging. It's Dollar Cost averaging (DCA). But that only applies if she buys when it rises to 60 also.


    Not a hedge.

    You can't hedge an asset by buying the same asset or repeating the same trade.





    A hedge would be:
    Johnny buys an asset at $50. He also takes out a put option at at $50 (cost of $1).
    If the price rises to $60, his profit is $9.
    If the price falls to $40, he exercises his put and recoups his $50. He makes a $1 loss. He can then buy at $40 like Jimmy ($41 effective).

    Here he used a put option to offset a potential loss. He to follow both Jimmy and Anne's strategy for the cost of $1. That's a hedge.




    Mellor, the hedges are on the obligation to deliver two assets on the forward contract.


    The person with no asset now - either by virtue of never holding the underlying (Jimmy), or having sold the one they have (Mary) is completely unhedged


    The person who currently has one of the assets (Anne) and the person who buys one asset now (Johnny) are partially hedged. they take the risk of price movement on the other.



    The person who buys two assets now is fully hedged.



    Yes, we are not dealing with a forward contract in the original scenario but on a person who most definitely wants the asset in the future. That was my understanding of this "hodl" meme thing. I used the forward contract as a simplification. I am not getting into semantics and scenarios. Just on that definite conviction that they appear to have. That conviction is not valid, but all I am doing is transposing it to an alternative setup. I am putting a slightly formal structure on it so that I can explain it more clearly.





    Lets even put it into layman everyday speak. Two people say they are convinced a dip is coming. One sells their assets now to buy back in. The other is not so convinced, so only sells half his assets. The latter is, colloquially speaking, "hedging his bets".


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    #533
    BrandonBay86
    Registered Users Posts: 496 ✭✭BrandonBay86


    Bob24 wrote: »
    BTC is reaching the price at which Tesla made its large acquisition.

    Do people think they have sold everything already? Are about to sell? Are holding?

    If I am thinking rationally I'd say Musk sold the whole lot before his Tweets. But it makes me nervous having "Musk" and "rationally" in the same sentence!

    19,000 bitcoin hit the open market hours before his tweet storm, that’s approx 50% of Tesla’s holdings. He still maintains they haven’t sold, but I’d say he had undisclosed personal holdings which he dumped. Tesla paying the price lately.


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    #534
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,564 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Looking at the current sea of red in crypto markets needs to IMO to be viewed in conjunction with the Stock market and the rumoured liquidity issues impending.
    This could well be an example of the Crypto hedge being liquidated to shore up equity and margin positions.


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    #535
    SortingYouOut
    Registered Users Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭SortingYouOut


    banie01 wrote: »
    Looking at the current sea of red in crypto markets needs to IMO to be viewed in conjunction with the Stock market and the rumoured liquidity issues impending.
    This could well be an example of the Crypto hedge being liquidated to shore up equity and margin positions.

    Is there anything article wise on the liquidity issues, I haven't really been following but sounds interesting!

    Beverly Hills, California



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    #536
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    BrandonBay86 wrote: »
    19,000 bitcoin hit the open market hours before his tweet storm, that’s approx 50% of Tesla’s holdings. He still maintains they haven’t sold, but I’d say he had undisclosed personal holdings which he dumped. Tesla paying the price lately.

    I guess for BTC holders there is a potential concern if Tesla actually still has them (which could be the case, but I am definitely not taking Musk’s words at face value). If they are getting pressure from their shareholders to dump everything ASAP in order to prevent any possible capital loss, that could be another hit for the market (I suspect many shareholders are getting nervous about the whole Bitcoin thing).


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    #537
    Brian201888
    Registered Users Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭Brian201888


    mcriot29 wrote: »
    Did you get a ada I think there will be more to be made in that in coming years but Eth is still going to be good

    Icp is about to be bought by coinbase so it may go up a lot ,zil is another one to watch very cheap right now .

    ICP is already on Coinbase and has been on Coinbase Pro since launch, trying to build up a significant stake in it as the potential seems absurd if it works


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    #538
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,564 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    SortingYouOut wrote: »
    Is there anything article wise on the liquidity issues, I haven't really been following but sounds interesting!

    US media is quiet on that front but an interesting article here.
    https://www.money.it/Fed-repo-miliardi-Wall-Street

    There is a lot of rumour and extrapolation flying around too.
    A lot of it esp that on Reddit is plagued with confirmation bias IMO but the arguments in light of market moves both in crypto and equities (especially considering what's stayed in the green on the equity front) is persuasive.

    The Reddit bros are all in on GME and AMC, they have seen a lot of mainly sideways trading with some incremental gains over the last 8 trading days.
    The theory is mad, but the longer it drags out and the more money is pulled from other equities, the more compelling it gets IMO.

    The is also the institutional money that flowed into crypto over the start of the year versus quite extreme sell offs this last few days.
    Who needs this cash, this quick and why?


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    #539
    SummerK
    Registered Users Posts: 381 ✭✭SummerK


    banie01 wrote: »
    US media is quiet on that front but an interesting article here.
    https://www.money.it/Fed-repo-miliardi-Wall-Street

    There is a lot of rumour and extrapolation flying around too.
    A lot of it esp that on Reddit is plagued with confirmation bias IMO but the arguments in light of market moves both in crypto and equities (especially considering what's stayed in the green on the equity front) is persuasive.

    The Reddit bros are all in on GME and AMC, they have seen a lot of mainly sideways trading with some incremental gains over the last 8 trading days.
    The theory is mad, but the longer it drags out and the more money is pulled from other equities, the more compelling it gets IMO.

    The is also the institutional money that flowed into crypto over the start of the year versus quite extreme sell offs this last few days.
    Who needs this cash, this quick and why?

    Does this mean there could be more dip in crypto space? I read on another portal that bitcoin could see $29k next week which sounds scary to me.

    Although I have been buying on dips the last few days, I just don't know when this would stop. Already down €2k in overall portfolio value :(


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    #540
    FileNotFound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    SummerK wrote: »
    Does this mean there could be more dip in crypto space? I read on another portal that bitcoin could see $29k next week which sounds scary to me.

    Although I have been buying on dips the last few days, I just don't know when this would stop. Already down €2k in overall portfolio value :(

    Ethereum down almost 20% at the moment in last 24hrs


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    #541
    jimmii
    Registered Users Posts: 14,810 ✭✭✭✭jimmii


    SummerK wrote: »
    Does this mean there could be more dip in crypto space? I read on another portal that bitcoin could see $29k next week which sounds scary to me.

    Although I have been buying on dips the last few days, I just don't know when this would stop. Already down €2k in overall portfolio value :(

    You know they're just picking a random number to get clicks right? No one can really make predictions for these things very few people even really have half the information they would need to make a decent call. Normally the only time anyone can make a short term prediction is a whale when they're logging in to buy or sell for an amount they know is going to move things.


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