Any laser beam eyed mofos wanna defend bitcoin denominated HSE ransomware attack?

pioneerpro · 15-05-2021 02:43PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

There has to be a recognition that crypto is the enabling tech for this kind of crime. Yes it was possible before, but crypto makes it much much harder to investigate.

Most crypto is on some sort of blockchain - with exit/entry nodes and off/on-ramps to USDT and Fiat conversion. This makes it a lot more traceable (to the point of literal indellible ledger entries) compared to non-consecutive unmarked paper currency.

Case in point, the recent Ransomware pipeline attack. The group responsible were caught and cut off at the head in less than a week. All funds seized, all CnC servers gone.

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/05/darkside-ransomware-gang-quits-after-servers-bitcoin-stash-seized/

In contrast, they're still looking for 12bn of El Chapo's money, and another 12bn that disappeared in Iraq.

HGVRHKYY · 15-05-2021 02:50PM

pioneerpro wrote: »

Most crypto is on some sort of blockchain - with exit/entry nodes and off/on-ramps to USDT and Fiat conversion. This makes it a lot more traceable (to the point of literal indellible ledger entries) compared to non-consecutive unmarked paper currency.

Case in point, the recent Ransomware pipeline attack. The group responsible were caught and cut off at the head in less than a week. All funds seized, all CnC servers gone.

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/05/darkside-ransomware-gang-quits-after-servers-bitcoin-stash-seized/

In contrast, they're still looking for 12bn of El Chapo's money, and another 12bn that disappeared in Iraq.

Boggles the mind that Bitcoin/crypto critics still don't follow all of this, what do they think a fully public and immutable ledger means?

pioneerpro · 15-05-2021 03:02PM

HGVRHKYY wrote: »

Boggles the mind that Bitcoin/crypto critics still don't follow all of this, what do they think a fully public and immutable ledger means?

TBH I've been whatsapped similar questions a few times today about Ethereum and Bitcoin being 'untraceable' in light of this attack. Luckily this was on the front page of reddit and saved me a big text message ELI5 style explanation as regards just how public, legitimate, incontrovertible and traceable these entities are are.

In people's defense however, computer science is a bit of a magic box for 99% of the population. Within that domain, cryptocurrency/blockchain/distributed ledger technology represents some of the most cutting edge and complex software development in contemporary times.

I work in the industry, I've contributed to ERC20 projects, and I could happily ****e on about Federated Byzantine Agreement consensus mechanisms over a few pints. Hand on heart I can honestly say a huge amount of cryptocurrency stuff still baffles me. But we live and learn

FFVII · 15-05-2021 03:04PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What was the known attack vector used?

Lack of updates or whoops you shouldn't have clicked that attachment.

Always!

Any that say they couldn't find the cause are stupid or lying to save face.

Now with 5million payouts coming in they actually can afford to put more in to actually hitting big targets....or just keep going after the irish government. You just know this incompetence runs deep in every department.

thunderdog · 15-05-2021 03:05PM

Is there a laser eye crypto (LSE) that I can invest in?

Iguarantee · 15-05-2021 03:09PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are you also angry at fiat currency as it is has facilitated all crime since forever?

Three bags of salt to the man who brings me the head of man who stole the wheels off my chariot!

MrMusician18 · 15-05-2021 03:25PM

HGVRHKYY wrote: »

Boggles the mind that Bitcoin/crypto critics still don't follow all of this, what do they think a fully public and immutable ledger means?

Surely the crypto backers are responsible for this. On the one hand they are claiming it was the untraceable way to conduct transactions online, digital cash effectively, but outside the control of central banks. Now they're saying it's traceable because it's under scrutiny.

The truth is, crypto serves little to no legitimate purpose with demand entirely because of speculative or criminal reasons. Wild Wests only continue for so long before they are no longer tolerated. And if crypto keeps being associated with attacks on Western infrastructure, that tolerance is likely to wear thin quite quickly.

HGVRHKYY · 15-05-2021 03:30PM

pioneerpro wrote: »

TBH I've been whatsapped similar questions a few times today about Ethereum and Bitcoin being 'untraceable' in light of this attack. Luckily this was on the front page of reddit and saved me a big text message ELI5 style explanation as regards just how public, legitimate, incontrovertible and traceable these entities are are.

In people's defense however, computer science is a bit of a magic box for 99% of the population. Within that domain, cryptocurrency/blockchain/distributed ledger technology represents some of the most cutting edge and complex software development in contemporary times.

I work in the industry, I've contributed to ERC20 projects, and I could happily ****e on about Federated Byzantine Agreement consensus mechanisms over a few pints. Hand on heart I can honestly say a huge amount of cryptocurrency stuff still baffles me. But we live and learn

Are you working in crypto here in Ireland? Is it a company located here or you're working remotely for one based elsewhere?

Think I saw someone on here recently say devs are earning thousands per day just for programming smart contracts for ETH. Is there truth to that?

HGVRHKYY · 15-05-2021 03:40PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Surely the crypto backers are responsible for this. On the one hand they are claiming it was the untraceable way to conduct transactions online, digital cash effectively, but outside the control of central banks. Now they're saying it's traceable because it's under scrutiny.

The truth is, crypto serves little to no legitimate purpose with demand entirely because of speculative or criminal reasons. Wild Wests only continue for so long before they are no longer tolerated. And if crypto keeps being associated with attacks on Western infrastructure, that tolerance is likely to wear thin quite quickly.

Not sure who you're talking about when you say crypto backers, but since its inception, Bitcoin has always been spoken about as a fully public and transparent ledger - I can't imagine anyone involved in the actual development of it would look at it and say "yep, that's untraceable digital cash". It was difficult to trace at the beginning due to people being able to buy at Bitcoin ATMs for cash with absolutely no limits or KYC whatsoever, but that's not been the case for a while now on at least some ATMs. It's still possible to buy some in person off miners I suppose, but then you're not really even anonymous to that individual you're buying from. Either way, any transaction that occurs with Bitcoin is permanently there to be viewed and checked by anyone, for as long as the network is operating

As for the bold part: lol

KyussB · 15-05-2021 04:00PM

I think people are missing the point:

You can stop a large regular currency transaction within the financial system - and it is stopped automatically in many cases, as part of anti-fraud checks.

You can't stop a cryptocurrency transaction. Not at any level/size. That is what enables massive ransomware attacks like this.

ConseyMan · 15-05-2021 04:01PM

Surprised they used Bitcoin. Monero is what all the criminals/Dark web are using now.

MarkR · 15-05-2021 04:02PM

bankboucy wrote: »

Any laser beam eyed mofos wanna defend bitcoin...in the context of a Bitcoin denominated HSE ransomware attack in the middle of pandemic? Oh and the Colonial Pipeline bitcoin attack sending the southern eastern United States into a state of emergency too.

Bitcoin definitely solved the 'oh **** how am I gonna get paid a ransom anonymously and not get caught' problem....and before laser beamed eyed mofos say cash....some laser beamed eyed mofo needs to pick it up from somewhere and then hide it & then wash it & hope nobody sees or finds the cash while its being washed/carried around.

I'll leave recent May 3rd 2021 Charlie Munger quote here too (prior to Colonial Pipeline & HSE cyber attacks) he said on Bitcoin at Berkshire AGM - Bitcoin is "disgusting and contrary to the interests of civilization. I don’t welcome a currency that’s so useful to kidnappers and extortionists and so forth"

I'd also say that some of your laser beamed eyed ransomware friends went and f*cked it up for the rest of you.......the US/EU is coming down hard on cypto......ya'll should google Minsky moment.....its coming.

I blame both the ones and the zeroes. If it wasn't for them, this wouldn't have been possible.

Rob2D · 15-05-2021 04:03PM

OP was an obvious troll. But I was delighted to see how this thread turned out. It's great to see we have such intelligent and well informed people around here.

I'm sure as the bullrun goes on, we'll hear more of these silly arguments start to come from uninformed friends/family. And I feel confident in the fact that I can link people to these discussions for some enlightenment.

MrMusician18 · 15-05-2021 04:13PM

HGVRHKYY wrote: »

Not sure who you're talking about when you say crypto backers, but since its inception, Bitcoin has always been spoken about as a fully public and transparent ledger - I can't imagine anyone involved in the actual development of it would look at it and say "yep, that's untraceable digital cash". It was difficult to trace at the beginning due to people being able to buy at Bitcoin ATMs for cash with absolutely no limits or KYC whatsoever, but that's not been the case for a while now on at least some ATMs. It's still possible to buy some in person off miners I suppose, but then you're not really even anonymous to that individual you're buying from. Either way, any transaction that occurs with Bitcoin is permanently there to be viewed and checked by anyone, for as long as the network is operating

As for the bold part: lol

What exactly is bitcoin, for example, used for then? It's either a speculative asset or it's being used for criminal transactions. The amount of legitimate businesses that accept BTC as a means of payment are miniscule, and for those that do, its is usually more for novelty rather than deriving any great utility from it.

bankboucy · 15-05-2021 04:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I think this thread needs more mentions of laser eyes.

Flushed out the person with the aforementioned colored eyes I see! There's always one - we know who that is now

bankboucy · 15-05-2021 04:26PM

Graham wrote: »

Criticism of 'laser beamed eyed mofos'?

Or criticism of 'a currency that’s so useful to kidnappers and extortionists' which is pretty much every currency that ever existed.

You've missed the point - we already have a currency, an at scale/cheap digital payments system, a universally accepted form of exchange..........what has bitcoin incrementally provided that we didn't have already?

I'll answer - a trading sardine for gamblers & a currency so useful to kidnappers and extortionists

bankboucy · 15-05-2021 04:28PM

banie01 wrote: »

It's not untraceable, if anything it's far mare traceable than cash, precious metals or other stores of wealth.
It does facilitate easy transfer of large volume of wealth in a manner that cannot be recalled.

Blaming bitcoin for criminals hacking a system?
Is akin to blaming rape victims for wearing a short skirt.
It isn't the victim's fault they were attacked, nor is it bitcoin's fault that criminal's attacked the HSE.

The OP has a compelling lack of critical thinking combined with BuzzFeed style reporting.
Stoke up the outrage and facts be damned!

The irony of blaming a cryptographic based proof of work currency, for the lack of cryptographic security enabled by the HSE?
Likely the largest repository of personal and extremely private information in the country?
Would be laughable if it wasn't so stupid!

The whole OP strongly implies that it's the users of crypto that are responsible for the HSE's predicament.
We hacked their systems, we are holding them to ransom and sure who knows...
Some of us may even be profiting
The thing is, most users of crypto currency would be very mindful of the security risks and would and do happily shout security from the rooftops.

1 thing that I am impressed with on the HSE side of this fiasco.
Is that after the last ransomware attacks, there seems to have been serious resilience measures undertaken.
The rapid recovery of many systems to date, would indicate air-gapped storage for back ups and that's a good thing.

Add a bit of server side security and things could be even better.

Far for traceable than cash - then why is it the preferred method of payment criminals who dont like getting caught.

Give me a break

15-05-2021 04:30PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What exactly is bitcoin, for example, used for then? It's either a speculative asset or it's being used for criminal transactions. The amount of legitimate businesses that accept BTC as a means of payment are miniscule, and for those that do, its is usually more for novelty rather than deriving any great utility from it.

Bitcoin is a store of wealth, plenty of big companies like Tesla and PayPal are buying it up

bankboucy · 15-05-2021 04:30PM

degsie wrote: »

Of course everybody brushes over the fact that the computer systems were somehow compromised in the first place.

There is no crime and compromising of the computer system - if the motivation is removed in the first place..........i.e. a remote criminal cannot get paid anonymously with a high degree of confidence of not getting caught

PCeeeee · 15-05-2021 04:33PM

Can I ask what the laser beam eyes thing is about? I'm afraid I'm totally lost.

MrMusician18 · 15-05-2021 04:35PM

Badly fukt wrote: »

Bitcoin is a store of wealth, plenty of big companies like Tesla and PayPal are buying it up

So it's a speculative asset then.

bankboucy · 15-05-2021 04:37PM

dougal0691 wrote: »

computers are the problem, they make it far too easy to carry out ransomeare attacks and are too anonymous. if everything was on paper the attackers would have to physically steal the files and don't even get me started on having to try and hide millions of paper files, nightmare, be caught in no time. so can any of you laser beam eyed MOFOS tell me why computers shouldn't be banned.

I covered this already - but guess falling back on progress & technology improvement as an argument is the tried and tested crypto speaking point. Opponents dont have valid points - they're just luddites......opponents to the electric light bulb if allowed?

I'll say it one more - bitcoin improves what exactly? We already have a currency that exists physically and digitally......widely accepted.....superior store of wealth with less volitality.....cheaply stored.....cheaply transacted.....

irishgeo · 15-05-2021 04:38PM

so we rule out darksky group for the HSE attack.

massdebater · 15-05-2021 04:44PM

bankboucy wrote: »

You've missed the point - we already have a currency, an at scale/cheap digital payments system, a universally accepted form of exchange..........what has bitcoin incrementally provided that we didn't have already?

I'll answer - a trading sardine for gamblers & a currency so useful to kidnappers and extortionists

We have currency that's controlled by central authorities and often takes multiple days to transfer, with plenty of fees along the way.
Bitcoin cuts out all the intermediaries who want a slice, is decentralized, is accessible to more people, and is more globally accepted than local currency.

banie01 · 15-05-2021 04:45PM

bankboucy wrote: »

Far for traceable than cash - then why is it the preferred method of payment criminals who dont like getting caught.

Give me a break

Because some people haven't a clue what an immutable Blockchain is.
They watched a movie or 2 and think that crypto is some kind of back alley magic money swap.
Aside from the ledger, the off ramps required to turn that bitcoin back into fiat are also traceable.

bankboucy · 15-05-2021 04:54PM

Rob2D wrote: »

OP was an obvious troll. But I was delighted to see how this thread turned out. It's great to see we have such intelligent and well informed people around here.

I'm sure as the bullrun goes on, we'll hear more of these silly arguments start to come from uninformed friends/family. And I feel confident in the fact that I can link people to these discussions for some enlightenment.

Yes huddle together - tell each other your right....dont listen to outsiders.....all criticism is bad/unfounded.....others dont understand.....luddites......"they" just dont get it.....

If you cant hold your hand up and say that yes it is a superior currency for kidnappers & extortionists and admit that openly and without question BUT however go on to say that it improves the lot of human civilization in aggregate because of x, y, z reason. Thats a basis for a conversation.

Listen to yourselves in here - if you cant spot a kind of collective delusion/denial around the clear negatives bitcoin has for civil society your too far gone.

pioneerpro · 15-05-2021 04:55PM

HGVRHKYY wrote: »

Are you working in crypto here in Ireland? Is it a company located here or you're working remotely for one based elsewhere?

Sorry, to clarify I work in the IT industry. But there are a lot of parallels between distributed-ledger and blockchain technology and the sort of distributed and fault-tolerant messaging systems that I and a lot of others would work with in the back-ends of big enterprise systems. Finance in particular.

Think I saw someone on here recently say devs are earning thousands per day just for programming smart contracts for ETH. Is there truth to that?

There's a lot of MNCs with hothouses and labs recruiting developers - mainly ETH and its derivatives - but similarly there's others having to train up as they buy into esoteric things like say IOTA. I'm no great shakes and my day rate would be over 600. A generic senior software dev would earn a minimum of about 500 a day in Dublin. A COBOL or other minority language specialists who work on production travel and financial systems? 5 figures a callout in some cases. Top level network engineers on-call are thousands a day on retainer alone. It's certainly plausible.

I'd imagine the real money however is in the novel DeFi and other blockchain dApp and similar startups where the devs are staked or given a significant share in whatever the backing/operational coin is - e.g. possibility for Vitalik Buterin level money with the right market cap.

The hilarious thing is your man who did DOGE cobbled it together in about two hours as a joke. Two tabs on his chrome combined to say 'DOGECOIN' and he thought it would be worth the memery to fork off LuckyCoin IIRC.

For years it was fractions of a fraction of a penny. Today it's about fiddy cent.

He kept no coins other than those which he was donated back.

Fully Diluted Market Cap Today?
$64,716,111,040

It did 12$ billion in volume in the last 24hours.

Imagine if he kept 5%?

KyussB · 15-05-2021 05:18PM

massdebater wrote: »

We have currency that's controlled by central authorities and often takes multiple days to transfer, with plenty of fees along the way.
Bitcoin cuts out all the intermediaries who want a slice, is decentralized, is accessible to more people, and is more globally accepted than local currency.

In other words: Bitcoin cuts out all of the regulations that prevent fraud and massive ransom transfers - making it the perfect currency for illegal extortion.

The past weeks have shown that Bitcoin must be forced to follow anti-fraud and currency transfer regulations, this is not optional anymore - which means that the criminals using Bitcoin to extort money have just fucked themselves and everyone else who is bought into Bitcoin - because Bitcoin is incapable of following such regulations, by design - so it is about to become illegal in much of the western world.

If I were holding Bitcoin today, I'd be in a rush to exchange it into a legal currency, before its value crashes on the back of regulatory enforcement.

An Ri rua · 15-05-2021 05:25PM

PCeeeee wrote: »

Can I ask what the laser beam eyes thing is about? I'm afraid I'm totally lost.

They help one to see to the Moon....

bankboucy · 15-05-2021 05:28PM

massdebater wrote: »

We have currency that's controlled by central authorities and often takes multiple days to transfer, with plenty of fees along the way.
Bitcoin cuts out all the intermediaries who want a slice, is decentralized, is accessible to more people, and is more globally accepted than local currency.

Currency controlled by central authorities - like the same authorities that try to stop extortion, kidnapping, murder, child porn......the authorities that are accountable to you the citizen...the same authorities you'd call when someone was breaking into your house.........and thats a bad thing?

Fees!!! Dont make me laugh - have you looked at Coinbase fees? USDT transacting fees & conversion leakage......CeFi could only dream of the fee fest available in crypto world right now.....intermediaries in cypto world are killing it on fees. That gave me a good laugh that one.

Any laser beam eyed mofos wanna defend bitcoin denominated HSE ransomware attack?

Comments