FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

06-05-2021 12:37PM

blanch152 wrote: »

It is a really good example of an opposition populist policy that is unworkable in its current form, will get dropped when entering government, but does its job in attracting people to vote for the opposition.

The problem here is how to stop investment funds buying up housing estates, while leaving them free to be professional landlords of apartment blocks that wouldn't be built only for them.

Listening to radio one just now,all these amount to about 5% of the market
You'd swear it was 95% with the hullabaloo about it going on for 'years'
Its days are numbered now
A combination of tax and planning laws are going to be used to stop it

Cluedo Monopoly · 06-05-2021 12:48PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

Listening to radio one just now,all these amount to about 5% of the market
You'd swear it was 95% with the hullabaloo about it going on for 'years'
Its days are numbered now
A combination of tax and planning laws are going to be used to stop it

Eamonn Ryan was asked how many homes were owned by large investment companies in Ireland. He blurted out that he didn't know but thought it was 100-200. I am not sure he was fully awake.

Fann Linn · 06-05-2021 12:57PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

Listening to radio one just now,all these amount to about 5% of the market
You'd swear it was 95% with the hullabaloo about it going on for 'years'
Its days are numbered now
A combination of tax and planning laws are going to be used to stop it[/quotequot

Its correct to nip it in the bud.

blanch152 · 06-05-2021 12:59PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

Listening to radio one just now,all these amount to about 5% of the market
You'd swear it was 95% with the hullabaloo about it going on for 'years'
Its days are numbered now
A combination of tax and planning laws are going to be used to stop it

It's like the fuss over co-living. Co-living is a small niche market that a mature city like Dublin needs to meet, yet you would think from listening to the hysterics that it was the end of the world.

15 years ago, everyone was calling for professional landlords to enter the market as standards would be better, now they are all against them. Opposition politicians run around like headless chickens, only able to follow the herd.

Fann Linn · 06-05-2021 01:02PM

blanch152 wrote: »

It's like the fuss over co-living. Co-living is a small niche market that a mature city like Dublin needs to meet, yet you would think from listening to the hysterics that it was the end of the world.

15 years ago, everyone was calling for professional landlords to enter the market as standards would be better, now they are all against them. Opposition politicians run around like headless chickens, only able to follow the herd.

In this case Blanch it's the govt politicians running around like headless chickens following the herd. Did ye see the carry on at both PP meetings last night!

Humour Me · 06-05-2021 01:11PM

It’s not just to purchasing of homes though, it’s also what happens next. These investment companies don’t want the hassle of organising individual rentals, they are going to get a council or housing association to take out long term leases. Taxpayers are going to be covering the costs of these rentals for up to 20 years, with no asset at the end. Based on the DLRCC leases in Dundrum, we are going to be paying over the market rental rates for these leases, which will in turn push up the market rates, which makes it harder for potential buyers to save a deposit.

The entire housing strategy needs to be thrown out.

06-05-2021 01:12PM

Fann Linn wrote: »

In this case Blanch it's the govt politicians running around like headless chickens following the herd. Did ye see the carry on at both PP meetings last night!

Nobody outside see's what goes on at PP meetings,a lot of it is hearsay and exaggeration
You are right,it needs to be nipped now that they have ventured into whole housing estates
Some apartment blocks would not be built only for funding from funds
Builders need margins,profits and risk mitigation before they will build
Its difficult to get them to build in eastern counties for house prices less than 250k because its just not worth it
As one said to me,welcome to the world of house building

Fann Linn · 06-05-2021 01:12PM

Humour Me wrote: »

It’s not just to purchasing of homes though, it’s also what happens next. These investment companies don’t want the hassle of organising individual rentals, they are going to get a council or housing association to take out long term leases. Taxpayers are going to be covering the costs of these rentals for up to 20 years, with no asset at the end. Based on the DLRCC leases in Dundrum, we are going to be paying over the market rental rates for these leases, which will in turn push up the market rates, which makes it harder for potential buyers to save a deposit.

The entire housing strategy needs to be thrown out.

Plus they don't pay one iota in various taxes thanks to FFG looking after them,

Fann Linn · 06-05-2021 01:20PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

Nobody outside see's what goes on at PP meetings,a lot of it is hearsay and exaggeration
You are right,it needs to be nipped now that they have ventured into whole housing estates
Some apartment blocks would not be built only for funding from funds
Builders need margins,profits and risk mitigation before they will build
Its difficult to get them to build in eastern counties for house prices less than 250k because its just not worth it
As one said to me,welcome to the world of house building

We know enough went on for MM and LV coming out both yesterday and today stating that it's over now. Some good has come from the opposition shouting for otherwise it would have remained as is.

theendisnear · 06-05-2021 01:21PM

blanch152 wrote: »

It's like the fuss over co-living. Co-living is a small niche market that a mature city like Dublin needs to meet, yet you would think from listening to the hysterics that it was the end of the world.

15 years ago, everyone was calling for professional landlords to enter the market as standards would be better, now they are all against them. Opposition politicians run around like headless chickens, only able to follow the herd.

Govt defenders bringing the opposition into it.

DEFLECT DEFLECT DEFLECT

The youth will never turn back to FFG now.

Theres only 3 parties running around like headless chickens this past 24 hours. All at sea, lost the dressing room as to speak (AGAIN)

Cluedo Monopoly · 06-05-2021 02:08PM

Fann Linn wrote: »

We know enough went on for MM and LV coming out both yesterday and today stating that it's over now. Some good has come from the opposition shouting for otherwise it would have remained as is.

Damage is done. Fact is they knew there was a problem (For years) and wilfully ignored it in the housing plan.

06-05-2021 02:13PM

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Damage is done. Fact is they knew there was a problem (For years) and wilfully ignored it in the housing plan.

5% isn't a particular problem
A new problem with them buying whole new housing estates is a particular problem
They have a voting majority,is it not good that they are reacting to new problems?

biko · 06-05-2021 02:15PM

irishproduce wrote: »

Because as I see it, the ordinary first time buyer equally is not able to compete with the charity/ spurious immigration sector which has deep state pockets.

When you compete with the state you compete with yourself in the sense that the state's pockets contain your tax money they made you hand over

Calhoun · 06-05-2021 02:26PM

Fann Linn wrote: »

Marine Layer wrote: »

Listening to radio one just now,all these amount to about 5% of the market
You'd swear it was 95% with the hullabaloo about it going on for 'years'
Its days are numbered now
A combination of tax and planning laws are going to be used to stop it[/quotequot

Its correct to nip it in the bud.

You only have to look at other jurisdictions to see why this had to be stopped. It also is something that resonates at the core with Irish people, If I was leading one of the opposition parties it would be very easy to paint a picture quite damaging to FF and FG.

kalych · 06-05-2021 02:26PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

5% isn't a particular problem
A new problem with them buying whole new housing estates is a particular problem
They have a voting majority,is it not good that they are reacting to new problems?

Just listening to Leo's interview with him saying the government need to make sure there are no unintended consequences of any legislation brought in to tackle this issue. What he fails to mention is that obviously the government failed to preempt the current situation of funds buying entire estates, which he claims was an unintended consequence of government policy.

Questions should be raised why are the government so afraid to only err on the side of big businesses, not the general public? And should we even worry about unintended consequences so much when they are clearly happening all the time with government policies as we speak. Or maybe it's just a FG bias which seems a much more likely explanation all things considered.

theendisnear · 06-05-2021 02:33PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

5% isn't a particular problem
A new problem with them buying whole new housing estates is a particular problem
They have a voting majority,is it not good that they are reacting to new problems?

Bay Meadows in Dublin 15 was not bought at the weekend. The Irish Times reported Bay meadows in September 2019!!!
There has been others as Pearse pointed out in the Dail.

It is NOT a NEW PROBLEM. The govt were aware of this. Now the general public are aware, the Govt are pretending its a problem that just came up. The nation is not stupid, everyone is fully ware the Govt knew what was going on

06-05-2021 02:38PM

kalych wrote: »

Just listening to Leo's interview with him saying the government need to make sure there are no unintended consequences of any legislation brought in to tackle this issue. What he fails to mention is that obviously the government failed to preempt the current situation of funds buying entire estates, which he claims was an unintended consequence of government policy.

Questions should be raised why are the government so afraid to only err on the side of big businesses, not the general public? And should we even worry about unintended consequences so much when they are clearly happening all the time with government policies as we speak. Or maybe it's just a FG bias which seems a much more likely explanation all things considered.

I think the whole idea of the investment funds being invited in after the crash was to get funds into the building industry and jobs as much as to provide new accomadation when banks werent lending
They were left to tick along since but this mis step by them buying up housing estates will be the undoing of their expansion plans
Its a red line and rightly so
Governments couldnt have been expected 10 years ago to know they might do it 10 years later

06-05-2021 02:41PM

theendisnear wrote: »

Bay Meadows in Dublin 15 was not bought at the weekend. The Irish Times reported Bay meadows in September 2019!!!
There has been others as Pearse pointed out in the Dail.

It is NOT a NEW PROBLEM. The govt were aware of this. Now the general public are aware, the Govt are pretending its a problem that just came up. The nation is not stupid, everyone is fully ware the Govt knew what was going on

Well ok then,its a newly reported problem
You think the cabinet gets updated every week on who's bought what?
Ah here now!

theendisnear · 06-05-2021 02:42PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

Well ok then,its a newly reported problem
You think the cabinet gets updated every week on who's bought what?
Ah here now!

Did you not read my post? The Irish Times Reported this in Septemeber 2019, not May 2021 September 2019

The Govt have been aware of this long before this week.

That excuse dosnt wash

FrancieBrady · 06-05-2021 02:45PM

theendisnear wrote: »

Did you not read my post? The Irish Times Reported this in Septemeber 2019, not May 2021 September 2019

The Govt have been aware of this long before this week.

That excuse dosnt wash

Guess who was raising it in 2019 too...a fella called Darragh O'Brien.

06-05-2021 02:45PM

theendisnear wrote: »

Did you not read my post? The Irish Times Reported this in Septemeber 2019, not May 2021 September 2019

I did read it,thats why I replied with the words newly reported problem
They're 5% of the market,so whole housing estates purchases by them at this stage are tiny
2 have been reported
The cabinet aren't updated weekly on property purchases
They react to new problems as reported,topical issues basically

06-05-2021 02:46PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Guess who was raising it in 2019 too...a fella called Darragh O'Brien.

The whole housing estates issue?

theendisnear · 06-05-2021 02:51PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

I did read it,thats why I replied with the words newly reported problem
They're 5% of the market,so whole housing estates purchases by them at this stage are tiny
2 have been reported
The cabinet aren't updated weekly on property purchases
They react to new problems as reported,topical issues basically

The cabinet are at loggerheads. FF and FG trying to make sure when this Govt ends, one wont look as bad as the other. Ministers giving diff answers to questions at the same time (Eamonn Ryan and Darragh O Brien both gave diff answers to same question this morning)

They have lost the dressing room

Many young peoples dreams of a new home shattered by Govts policy. No way back for FFG now. Whats better for the opposition is, alot of these people looking at buying 1st property would be FF or FG voters. They can wave goodbye to a large amount of their votes

06-05-2021 02:57PM

theendisnear wrote: »

The cabinet are at loggerheads. FF and FG trying to make sure when this Govt ends, one wont look as bad as the other. Ministers giving diff answers to questions at the same time (Eamonn Ryan and Darragh O Brien both gave diff answers to same question this morning)

They have lost the dressing room

Many young peoples dreams of a new home shattered by Govts policy. No way back for FFG now. Whats better for the opposition is, alot of these people looking at buying 1st property would be FF or FG voters. They can wave goodbye to a large amount of their votes

In all fairness now,that is an opinion
Other opinions may vary

theendisnear · 06-05-2021 02:59PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

In all fairness now,that is an opinion
Other opinions may vary

Its also your opinion the Govt did not know about these estates getting bought up.

The Irish Times knew in 2019 but the Govt has not known.

Maybe the problem is the actually Govt are not fit for purpose if it is the case they never knew until the papers told them this week.

BobbyMalone · 06-05-2021 03:01PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Opposition politicians run around like headless chickens, only able to follow the herd.

Given the sudden turnabout on the part of the government parties on this very issue, would you agree that this applies to FF/FG/Greens?

06-05-2021 03:08PM

theendisnear wrote: »

Its also your opinion the Govt did not know about these estates getting bought up.

The Irish Times knew in 2019 but the Govt has not known.

Maybe the problem is the actually Govt are not fit for purpose if it is the case they never knew until the papers told them this week.

It is my opinion that they've locked onto it now as a topical issue and will nip it in the bud
I do not feel sorry for the vulture funds not being quick enough off the mark to buy up much more than the 2 I've heard of
I would assume in the last year that the pandemic scuppered that plan,kind of pre occupied the government and to be fair,they've reacted quickly to it now as a topical issue

Floppybits · 06-05-2021 03:10PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

Well ok then,its a newly reported problem
You think the cabinet gets updated every week on who's bought what?
Ah here now!

Its only a new problem you say, here is an IT article from Feb 19th 2020 say that of the 21,000 built in 2019 only 8,000 were available for sale on the open market.

So both FF and FG have been well aware of this problem and haven't bothered to do anything about and in 2019 Darragh O'Brien brought a bill to the Dail to stop Vulture funds buying up estates so I don't know where you go that this a newly reported problem.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/just-8-000-houses-built-last-year-offered-for-sale-on-open-market-says-cif-1.4177876

Floppybits · 06-05-2021 03:13PM

Marine Layer wrote: »

It is my opinion that they've locked onto it now as a topical issue and will nip it in the bud
I do not feel sorry for the vulture funds not being quick enough off the mark to buy up much more than the 2 I've heard of
I would assume in the last year that the pandemic scuppered that plan,kind of pre occupied the government and to be fair,they've reacted quickly to it now as a topical issue

No they haven't reacted quickly would be shutting this practice down now like they shut the country down in March 2020 but nope they are going to drag their heels on this till sometime in July. So until that time these funds can snap up any or all properties either on the market or going to market till then.

06-05-2021 03:15PM

Floppybits wrote: »

Its only a new problem you say, here is an IT article from Feb 19th 2020 say that of the 21,000 built in 2019 only 8,000 were available for sale on the open market.

So both FF and FG have been well aware of this problem and haven't bothered to do anything about and in 2019 Darragh O'Brien brought a bill to the Dail to stop Vulture funds buying up estates so I don't know where you go that this a newly reported problem.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/just-8-000-houses-built-last-year-offered-for-sale-on-open-market-says-cif-1.4177876

I replied to that already
They are 5% of the market
Not 95%
The topical issue is them buying whole housing estates,the red line
Cabinets aren't updated weekly or monthly on who bought what
It doesnt come in over text message or something

FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

Comments