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Are we living during the time of the First Seal of Revelation?

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  • 19-02-2021 8:51pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭


    I would usually give videos and articles about 'End Times Prophecies' a wide berth, not because I do not believe that they exist, but because there are so many out there which rely on a personal, flawed understanding of Scripture or personal revelations which were not approved.

    However, recently a person I know introduced me to the following series. I find these two guys different because they tend to use official Papal documents and statements, the Church Fathers, the Catechism and approved apparitions (such as Fatima) to make their case.

    They claim that we have already entered the time of the First Seal (as set out in the Book of Revelation) and are on the cusp of the Second Seal. While I cannot yet say that I am wholly convinced by their argument, I have to say that I find it compelling. Their message is also a hopeful one ie. looking forward to the period of great peace which is to come after the tribulations.

    Would be interested to hear others' opinions on this.



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Comments

  • Site Banned Posts: 109 ✭✭iagreebut


    I'm not a Catholic myself, but I have been reading the book of revelations on and off for year's.
    And I'm starting to join the dots and I suppose you could say I'm not religious.
    But I like reading about prophecy and have an interest in it.
    The guy on the horse wearing a crown,it could be a metaphor for the crown of the Corona and it ripping through the world, but that's just an observation or theory.
    These people calling themselves LIBERALS or ALTRIGHT they seem to be evil and are like demon's or devils out to corrupt the world...a lot of them don't know if they're men or women or women or men, Identity politics is another one.

    There's definitely a storm brewing, even within churches and places of worship there's corruption.

    I myself recently around a month ago I asked God or whomever is the creator to cleanse my consciousness or soul and let me start from scratch.

    There's so many versions of churches and Christianity, but I think it got lost along the way.
    It's probably best to keep it simple, go back to humility and just thank your God for the gift of life, love thy neighbor and friend'skeep my own house clean and have a few reliable friend's.

    I don't think it matters if you're a Catholic, Anglican, Muslim or other religion..

    Examine your consciousness and live a good life, stay away from drama and stressful situations, getting into the debate's with people mocking religion, pointing out its flaws and trying to undermine you.

    Keeping it simple, go right down to brass tacts.

    Salvation is available to everyone who have awareness, the book of revelations is very powerful.

    Those who are humble, and have the wisdom to know the difference will be saved.

    I suppose that scene in Mel Gibson's movie of Jesus stamping on the snake in the garden of Gethsemane resonates with me, he knew that his time was near.
    He squashed the snake and confidently rose up and accepted that he had a job to do.

    I'm on the fence I suppose with religion and culture, but I'm willing to find the answers..

    There's definitely something brewing... better to be saved rather than be the dammed.

    But if I decided to convert to Christianity, I'd keep it very simple and abide by the commandments to the best of my abilities and enjoy the simple things in life...

    As you can see I'm on my own journey of self discovery...


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭homer911


    @iagreebut - you sound like a Unitarian!!

    Seriously though, Salvation is through faith alone, through Christ alone. Other than that you sound like you are on the right path..


  • Site Banned Posts: 109 ✭✭iagreebut


    Thanks Homer, I suppose I lean towards being a Unitarian..
    I actually googled it, and its very interesting.

    Yes I like to simplify my belief, down to basics.

    It's less complicated, that's for sure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,972 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The answer to any question posed in a headline is always "No".

    Life ain't always empty.



  • Site Banned Posts: 109 ✭✭iagreebut


    Ian Betteridge isn't always right, and by the way has your post anything to do with the discussion ?


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  • Site Banned Posts: 109 ✭✭iagreebut


    The answer to any question posed in a headline is always "No".

    AHH I get you now, Unitarians are open minded and they like to question thing's.

    They're more interested in how well they do in this life rather than worrying about the after life...

    More deed than creed, it's not unless it is kind of thing...


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,718 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    The answer to any question posed in a headline is always "No".

    Mod warning: Above post falls short of the minimum standard required for discussion here. See point 7 of the charter.
    Charter wrote:
    7. While posting controversial questions to stimulate debate is acceptable, soap boxing, i.e. constant repetition of a single viewpoint while refusing to entertain discussion on it, is both disruptive and annoying, and will not be tolerated. You are expected to contribute something other than placard proclamations.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,718 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    iagreebut wrote: »
    Ian Betteridge isn't always right, and by the way has your post anything to do with the discussion ?

    Mod warning: Less of the back seat modding please. If you're not happy with a post, report it. Any feedback via PM or feedback thread only please.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,718 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    iagreebut wrote: »
    Thanks Homer, I suppose I lean towards being a Unitarian..
    I actually googled it, and its very interesting.

    Yes I like to simplify my belief, down to basics.

    It's less complicated, that's for sure.

    Possibly worth noting that Unitarianism is rejected by many other mainstream Christian churches which are all trinitarian. From Wikipedia
    The Catholic and Orthodox Church rejects Unitarianism because they consider its doctrine equal to that of Arius, condemned for heresy at the Council of Nicea, for not believing in the divinity of Jesus, neither in trinity.

    It is also worth noting that Unitarianism is not considered to constitute Christian belief within the charter of this forum, where the Apostles' Creed specifically relates to trinitarian Christian beliefs.
    2. For the purposes of this board 'Christian' means broad assent to historic Christian belief such as is contained in the Apostles' Creed. Individual posters with other beliefs, however, are welcome.

    No problem discussing it, albeit as an 'other belief'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 423 ✭✭Government buildings


    What amazes me is that all the priests and churchman say that this virus has nothing to do with God.
    If you believe in God you must admit that there is a possibility that this virus is sent by God.

    After all the Bible is replete with stories of God sending various plagues to various ages.

    Why are today's churchmen so sure that God didn't send the virus? Have they not read their Bible?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,081 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I have listened to about half the video and I wonder, what is the difference between this prediction and all the others that have gone before. Also, Jesus said 'Concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only'. Matthew 24:3. If no-one knows how can prophesies be made?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    I would usually give videos and articles about 'End Times Prophecies' a wide berth, not because I do not believe that they exist, but because there are so many out there which rely on a personal, flawed understanding of Scripture or personal revelations which were not approved.

    However, recently a person I know introduced me to the following series. I find these two guys different because they tend to use official Papal documents and statements, the Church Fathers, the Catechism and approved apparitions (such as Fatima) to make their case.

    They claim that we have already entered the time of the First Seal (as set out in the Book of Revelation) and are on the cusp of the Second Seal. While I cannot yet say that I am wholly convinced by their argument, I have to say that I find it compelling. Their message is also a hopeful one ie. looking forward to the period of great peace which is to come after the tribulations.

    Would be interested to hear others' opinions on this.



    Back in the 90's in engineering college I came across a geology book detailing how much we had left of a multitude of resources you've probably never heard of. Molybdenum, berylium, boron, chromium (well you've heard of that - it makes your plastic trims on your car all shiny)

    Everything was expressed in "years left at current rates of consumption". They got the total by adding what we knew we had by way of reserves + what they knew they had but couldn't extract with current technolgy, but figured we'd figure out a way in time. Fracking being an example of that.

    Of course, we live in a world where the economic paradigm is ever increasing growth (consumption) so those 90's figures are naturally way out of date.

    Bar aluminium (which is horrendously energy intensive to extract from ore), everything on the list had a lifespan of less than 100 years.


    I remember thinking then "we're bunched!" and I wasn't a Christian at that point.


    Add Climate Change and zero appetite to pull on the rip cord (see aforemention world economic model)

    Add highly complex societies, laid waste to with a poxy flu virus

    Add highly weaponised societies

    And man's go to when the pressure for resources is on: war.


    I've tended not to be interested in end times stuff - a long line of failed prophecy being the issue.

    But no reason to to give it a look, given things coming to a head.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭8kczg9v0swrydm


    iagreebut wrote: »
    There's so many versions of churches and Christianity, but I think it got lost along the way.
    It's probably best to keep it simple, go back to humility and just thank your God for the gift of life, love thy neighbor and friend's keep my own house clean and have a few reliable friend's.

    I don't think it matters if you're a Catholic, Anglican, Muslim or other religion..

    Great to see that you are passionate and excited about finding the truth, I think it is very sad that so many people are happy to just say that we can never know the truth or that it does not matter.

    There is a principle of logic called the Principle of Non-Contradiction (PNC). It means that two contrary things cannot both be true at the same time and in the same respect. Therefore, Ireland cannot both be an island and not be an island at the same time. The same patch of sky cannot both be blue and red at the same time. Similarly, God cannot both exist and not exist. Either the believers are 100% correct on this point, or the atheists are. I see that you are a man of faith, so you are past this first hurdle.

    Following on from this principle, it matters a great deal if you are Catholic, Anglican, Muslim or a member of another religion. These religions contradict each other on the same points of doctrine - therefore the PNC applies. If Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died for us on the Cross, rose from the dead and is now with God the Father, then Allah cannot be God and Muhammad be His prophet. It would make zero sense. Simply by strictly applying the rules of logic, we can know that one of these religions is false and its adherents are living in error (whether they realize it or not is a different issue).

    The story is similar between the Catholics and the various Protestant sects (Anglicans, Presbyterians, Methodists etc). Either the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ, as He said at the Last Supper ("And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me." Luke 22:19) or it is not. Similarly, either the Pope is the Vicar of Christ, to whom God wants us to submit in matters of religion, or he is not. These things cannot both be and not be true at the same time. To be a Catholic or any other denomination matters a great deal. Think about it - if the Eucharist really is Christ, then are non Catholics not missing out in a massive way?

    I can tell you that for me, personally, Catholicism just makes sense. It is faithful to Scripture - the Apostle Paul told believers: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle (2 Thess 2:15). I find that other Christian traditions are forgetting about the "word" part (Scripture alone). I also find that only in Catholicism I have access to the Lord's Supper (Mass) and the forgiveness of sins as He instituted it ie. Confession ("Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained". John 20:23). Moreover, if you look at how the early Church worshiped, those who lived closest in time to Christ, you will find that they celebrated the Mass. Have a read of this account by Justin Martyr from 155 AD.
    Salvation is available to everyone who have awareness, the book of revelations is very powerful.


    Statements of such gravity should be reasonable ie you should have sufficient reasons for believing them. None of the Christian denominations teach that salvation is easily available to anyone who has awareness (not sure what that means by the way). Christian teaching is that we are saved by accepting the salvation which Christ secured for us on the cross. This is done by applying the merits of his sacrifice to us individually through Baptism. Then, we spend our lives in joyful anticipation of eternal life with God, however we remain conscious that salvation can still be lost through grave sin ("There is a sin leading to death" 1 John 5:16).
    Those who are humble, and have the wisdom to know the difference will be saved.


    Same problem. Show me a single argument to support the position that salvation is secured through being humble and wise. These questions carry eternal consequences; they really need to be thought out.
    I suppose that scene in Mel Gibson's movie of Jesus stamping on the snake in the garden of Gethsemane resonates with me, he knew that his time was near.
    He squashed the snake and confidently rose up and accepted that he had a job to do.


    Great scene. He went on to die for you, me and the rest of humanity.

    I'm on the fence I suppose with religion and culture, but I'm willing to find the answers..

    There's definitely something brewing... better to be saved rather than be the dammed.

    But if I decided to convert to Christianity, I'd keep it very simple and abide by the commandments to the best of my abilities and enjoy the simple things in life...

    As you can see I'm on my own journey of self discovery...


    You are bang on that it is better to be saved then to be damned :D

    Please keep praying to God for light, that He will show you the truth.

    "Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you". (Matthew 7:7).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭santana75


    I was actually talking with some friends about this recently and we all confessed to feeling like something was definitely happening with regards to the revelations in John's book. I have no proof to back that up, and I think its a rabbit hole you could easily fall into, expecially since theres so many theories floating around, now more so than ever. But It feels as though time has sped up and we're careening towards some point of convergence. Whether this is gonna happen within the next couple of months, years, or even longer, God is the only one who knows, all I know personally is that something is happening behind the veil.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭8kczg9v0swrydm


    santana75 wrote: »
    I was actually talking with some friends about this recently and we all confessed to feeling like something was definitely happening with regards to the revelations in John's Gospel. I have no prove to back that up, and I think its a rabbit hole you could easily fall into, expecially since theres so many theories floating around, now more so than ever. But It feels as though time has sped up and we're careening towards some point of convergence. Whether this is gonna happen within the next couple of months, years, or even longer, God is the only one who knows, all I know personally is that something is happening behind the veil.

    Sometimes I have this feeling too. And, to be perfectly honest, if we were on the brink of a period of chastisement, I wouldn't be surprised.

    According to this document from the WHO, we abort around 56 million children annually (its probably 'remove fetuses' in WHO doublespeak. Because we all go around congratulating our friends on being pregnant with a fetus). 25% of all conceptions end in abortion, also according to this document.

    If you step back from it, this information is staggering. Every year, we silently kill roughly the same number of people as died in World War II. Every year, we cull 25% of all our new-borns. These are people who could have been doctors, artists, husbands, wives... It beggars belief. This has never been done in the history of the world.

    Moreover, we have made an absolute mess of ourselves as humanity. We have totally undercut the four pillars of our human identity, namely religion, family, country and gender. We have chased God out entirely from our public square and largely from our private lives too. The institution of the family has all but disappeared in certain areas - cohabiting, single parent households and other arrangements which were condemned in the Bible are the order of the day. Country - we are basically citizens of the world now. Gender - you would think the easiest one to maintain. People no longer know what their gender is. We are teaching our children that gender is not determined by biology. Some are claiming there are hundreds of genders.

    I could go on, but this is already depressing. Maybe the only way out of this mess is if it all collapses and we start anew. Maybe then we will have a chance to make our civilization correspond to reality and the natural law.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭santana75


    I just finished 2 Chronicles and what really stood out for me was how quickly the people would turn away from God. And those where the chosen people not even the so called "Gentiles". In fact what the Israelites did was often times far worse than the pagan nations they had disposed. Kings would come in and worship idols and commit terrible offences such as sacrificing children to these false gods, along with sexual immorality such as temple prostitutes. And God would turn his back on them, sometimes sending plagues or more often than not, armies from other nations who would conquer and oppress the Israelites until they cried out to God. Who would then save them but then not long after that they would turn from him again and the cycle would repeat itself. And I think nothing has changed. Nations have turned from God, we're still sacrificing children and worshipping idols.
    Something is definitely happening, we're heading for some sort of reckoning, theres no way God will stand by and allow things continue the way they are.


  • Registered Users Posts: 423 ✭✭Government buildings


    I definitely think there's something to the idea of time speeding up. Young and old people seem to say this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,292 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    We could be


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭homer911


    25% of all conceptions end in abortion, also according to this document.

    Miscarriages are usually classified as abortions


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,718 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    According to this document from the WHO, we abort around 56 million children annually (its probably 'remove fetuses' in WHO doublespeak. Because we all go around congratulating our friends on being pregnant with a fetus). 25% of all conceptions end in abortion, also according to this document.

    From the same document that you linked, "The abortion rate has declined markedly—by 41%— in developed countries since 1990, but has remained
    roughly the same in developing countries. ". There are many studies available that attribute this to broader availability of affordable or free contraception, notably longer acting birth control methods. As this becomes more widely available in developing countries we can expect to see a similar fall in abortion rates in those countries as well as a large drop in child mortality.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭NaFirinne


    There are a lot of signs in the Bible that indicate we are nearing the end of an age.

    There is a few things left to occur first though before the tribulation period starts.

    I think covid 19 is just the lead up to that era where we see greater globalist control over countries and greater restrictions on people.

    Digital certificates / health passports along with china's social credit system all look like precursors to a mark of the beast style rule over people.

    We are heading for world wide deceptions, a world wide government trying to unite all people in so called peace and a world wide religion.

    We can see that in the past few years our country as become extremely anti christian. We can see that what's once viewed as great sins have now become what society views as morally good, with traditional christian ideals becoming increasingly morally unacceptable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,081 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Mod: Please do not allow this thread to become a Covid discussion thread.

    NaFirinne, some of your points are veering too close to Conspiracy Theory to be appropriate to this forum.
    I think covid 19 is just the lead up to that era where we see greater globalist control over countries and greater restrictions on people.

    Digital certificates / health passports along with china's social credit system all look like precursors to a mark of the beast style rule over people.

    We are heading for world wide deceptions, a world wide government trying to unite all people in so called peace and a world wide religion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭NaFirinne


    looksee wrote: »
    Mod: Please do not allow this thread to become a Covid discussion thread.

    NaFirinne, some of your points are veering too close to Conspiracy Theory to be appropriate to this forum.


    no they are not. there from the study of eschatology.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,718 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    no they are not. there from the study of eschatology.

    Mod warning: That may will be the case, but I would remind you that the last 'mark of the beast' thread was shipped over to the conspiracy theories forum and this one is likely to do the same if you continue with your current line of discussion. Any response via PM or to the feedback forum only please. Thanks for your attention.


  • Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭NaFirinne


    I look forward to Christ's return


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,462 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    It's very odd how people like claiming now is the end times by linking it to some unstable elements in the world and covid.

    By that same logic the world must have very much ended by the 1940's

    20million died in WW1
    Upto 95million died due to 1918 pandemic worldwide
    75million died in WW2
    Europe was in ruins due to WW2
    Governments in bits, econcomy's ruined

    But sure, THIS is the end of times right now....
    :rolleyes:

    The reality is some people like making links when no links exist and some people just seem to love a little bit of doom in their lives, maybe it gives them somebody to look forward to perhaps?

    We've been doing it for a long long time by claiming the end times will come at various points and claiming certain stuff points to it, more recent examples include 2000 and 2012. Many popes made these claims too, perhaps their connection to god had a bad line?

    Here's a delightful uplifting list of all the times people were 100% wrong and this time will be no different - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events

    In 100 or 200 years time people will look back at comments being made like those in this thread and see them as silly as how we see comments made in the 1800 or 1900's


  • Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭NaFirinne


    The reason why I believe that we are nearing end times is nothing to do with the ongoing covid 19 epidemic and more to do with what was prophecied in the Bible.

    The mods seem to indicate I'm not aloud to discuss bibical prophecies such as the ones in the Bible that foretold of the re-gathering of Israel as a nation thousands of years ago which did indeed occur in 1948.

    From studying the scriptures the events that lead up too the eventual return of Christ is described in detail for those who wish to know them.

    It is from these that we can reconise that while we may not know the hour of the return of Christ we know when we are nearing the season. In this regards we can expect more prophectic things in the Bible to come to pass.

    A lot of people will feel it in there bones that something is going on. It's worth doing a little homework on the study of escatology and I would be happy to point people in the right direction or talk about them on the forums if allowed to do so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,081 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    NaFirinne - If there is mention in the bible of digital health certificates, restrictions on people (unless you mean things like the ten commandments and Jewish custom), and global government, then please feel free to quote them.

    Other observations made by you were not commented on - not to say I agree with them personally - but I think they are still on topic.

    Please do not comment on Mod actions on thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭santana75


    looksee wrote: »
    NaFirinne - If there is mention in the bible of digital health certificates, restrictions on people (unless you mean things like the ten commandments and Jewish custom), and global government, then please feel free to quote them.

    Revelation 13:16

    "He required everyone—small and great, rich and poor, free and slave—to be given a mark on the right hand or on the forehead. And no one could buy or sell anything without that mark, which was either the name of the beast or the number representing his name"


    This verse definitely references restrictions if the mark of the beast is not taken. I've no time for wild conspiracy theories myself, but when I heard about things like Vaccine bonuses and vaccine passports, Revelation 13 came to mind. Of course right now, this is all speculation and who knows how it all will turn out, Jesus himself said that Wisdom is proven right by the fruit that it bears. And people have been predicting the End of days since almost the instant after Jesus ascended to Heaven. All I know is that we're called to keep watch, to not allow the world to dull us or distract us, to keep an eye out for the return of The Lord.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,078 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    santana75 wrote: »
    Revelation 13:16

    "He required everyone—small and great, rich and poor, free and slave—to be given a mark on the right hand or on the forehead. And no one could buy or sell anything without that mark, which was either the name of the beast or the number representing his name"


    This verse definitely references restrictions if the mark of the beast is not taken. I've no time for wild conspiracy theories myself, but when I heard about things like Vaccine bonuses and vaccine passports, Revelation 13 came to mind . . .
    What comes to mind much more strongly is — money. Nobody can buy or sell anything without handling money. Of course, money isn't a mark on the right hand or the forehead but, then, neither is a vaccine passport.

    And money, of course, at the time the Revelations was written, came the an image of the emperor, and his name, or a cipher of his name. (Indeed, this is pretty much true for the coinage down to our own day.) That fits with the "name of the beast" stuff much more than a vaccine certificate or similar.

    We know what this is about, guys; we've always known. It's about the Emperor Nero.


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