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Cyclists, insurance and road tax

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Comments

  • #1712
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 43,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Why are so many cyclists so against anything like helmets that they see as deterring people from cycling. Surely they should just be happy that they themselves cycle, or is there a reason that they want so many more cyclists that isnt being explained here ? Surely keeping it a niche benefits them with more bike rack spaces and free-er cycle paths
    I take it that you didn't put much thought into your question! :rolleyes:


  • #1713
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,531 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    EddieN75 wrote: »
    Why are they parked there?

    Can you not ring the council or better yet the Gardai?

    Doing deliveries, tradesmen etc. The Garda don't care about this kind of thing and they do it themselves all the time.
    The council did respond to complaints and have now installed wands.


  • #1714
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,213 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    in short, if your answer to the question 'how can we make cycling safer?' is 'helmets', you don't understand the problem.


  • #1715
    EddieN75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 467 ✭✭EddieN75


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Doing deliveries, tradesmen etc. The Garda don't care about this kind of thing and they do it themselves all the time.
    The council did respond to complaints and have now installed wands.

    Oh I see. People who are actually working or delivery vehicles who are permitted to park briefly.

    I have no issue then. No need to ring the Gardai. I thought you meant people just abandoning their vehicles for no real reason sort from rudeness and laziness.


  • #1716
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,531 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    EddieN75 wrote: »
    Oh I see. People who are actually working or delivery vehicles who are permitted to park briefly.

    I have no issue then. No need to ring the Gardai. I thought you meant people just abandoning their vehicles for no real reason sort from rudeness and laziness.

    Well there's plenty of abandoned and parked cars in most cycle lanes, I was just giving an example of where it used to affect me every day.
    They're not permitted to park briefly anyway, there are loading bays nearby they just never use them.


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  • #1717
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,507 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    EddieN75 wrote: »
    Oh I see. People who are actually working or delivery vehicles who are permitted to park briefly.

    I have no issue then. No need to ring the Gardai. I thought you meant people just abandoning their vehicles for no real reason sort from rudeness and laziness.

    Why don't they stop in the traffic lane that most motor traffic use?


  • #1718
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,821 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Why are so many cyclists so against anything like helmets that they see as deterring people from cycling. Surely they should just be happy that they themselves cycle, or is there a reason that they want so many more cyclists that isnt being explained here ? Surely keeping it a niche benefits them with more bike rack spaces and free-er cycle paths

    I get why you say this.

    Yes, to be honest it does seem counterintuitive.

    However bear in mind that most cyclists do actually wear helmets. The vast majority.

    So its not that cyclists are against helmets.

    The issue for cyclists is the discourse around road safety being defined in terms of cyclists needing to take personal responsibility, by wearing helmets, by wearing hi viz......cyclists be seen....the poor old driver cant see you in your ordinary clothes .....cyclists wear a helmet, if you get whacked by a car you will need it.

    Cyclists would rather not get whacked by a car in the first place, helmet or no helmet. Cyclists dont want to take a chance that a driver overtaking them is also answering a whatsapp message, hi viz wont make a difference.

    Hence, cyclists would like safe infrastructure.

    And to your point - cyclists absolutely want more and more and more new cyclists on the road.


  • #1719
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,213 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    We do not design helmets specifically to reduce chances or severity of injury when impacts involve a car; the number of variables is too great to calculate.
    that's a statement from a senior manager at giro helmets, one of the world's best known cycling helmet brands.
    most non-cyclists don't seem to realise that bicycle helmets are designed to protect primarily against simple falls, not against being hit by motorised vehicles.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/carltonreid/2020/07/10/bicycle-helmets-not-designed-for-impacts-from-cars-stresses-leading-maker-giro/?sh=3106e7cbcbd4


  • #1720
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Why are so many cyclists so against anything like helmets that they see as deterring people from cycling. Surely they should just be happy that they themselves cycle, or is there a reason that they want so many more cyclists that isnt being explained here ? Surely keeping it a niche benefits them with more bike rack spaces and free-er cycle paths
    Because more cyclists has the effect of creating more facilities, more awareness, and makes cycling overall a safer pursuit.

    This is only natural. If vehicles made up only 10% of all transport, there would be no motorways, parking spaces would be extremely sparse, roads would be narrow, poorly maintained and poorly designed. You would frequently have to park your car and get out and walk 10-15 mins to where you wanted to go, no pulling up to the door. And the number of people killed by cars would be proportionally huge.

    You might be able to say it's great, cars are a niche pursuit, the roads are mostly clear and you have your pick of parking spots. But you wouldn't be happy, right?


  • #1721
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    85603 wrote: »
    Good question.

    Well, she should be in your guardianship, and thus not on any road, path only, so no.

    If youre on a bike shes covered by your policy.
    If youre not then no. Doesnt count

    So cyclists are OK on footpaths?

    Jeez, none of this makes sense .
    Or you havent really thought this through


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  • #1722
    EddieN75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 467 ✭✭EddieN75


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    Why don't they stop in the traffic lane that most motor traffic use?

    Just because they are out to annoy cyclists I would imagine. I see no other reason.


  • #1723
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    EddieN75 wrote: »
    Just because they are out to annoy cyclists I would imagine. I see no other reason.

    Cyclists are perceived by some to be somehow secondary road users by some - I know the wife complains if a cyclist "holds her up".


  • #1724
    EddieN75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 467 ✭✭EddieN75


    MikeOxsgreen wrote: »
    Cyclists are perceived by some to be somehow secondary road users by some - I know the wife complains if a cyclist "holds her up".

    Why was the cyclist out on the road with the cars?
    They should be in their own little lane. And if no lanes available ie rural then they should be peddling around an Eamon Ryan greenway.

    Roads are for cars, etc


  • #1725
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,531 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    EddieN75 wrote: »
    Why was the cyclist out on the road with the cars?
    They should be in their own little lane. And if no lanes available ie rural then they should be peddling around an Eamon Ryan greenway.

    Roads are for cars, etc

    The trolls are out today anyway.


  • #1726
    Pawwed Rig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,454 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    The trolls are out today anyway.

    I think he was being sarcastic tbf.
    I haven't been following the last few days but did someone seriously suggest that 12 year olds should have to get bike insurance :pac:


  • #1727
    MangleBadger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    The trolls are out today anyway.

    Well I would presume after over 100 pages all the sensible discussion has happened.


  • #1728
    EddieN75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 467 ✭✭EddieN75


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    The trolls are out today anyway.

    Everybody knows that cycling in cities is the future. Single occupancy transport . I would suggest removing car parking spaces and turning them into loading bays for delivery drivers and tradesmen.

    Eventually I can see one lane for cycling, one lane for driving and one lane for public transport. Public transport also need to be ramped up.

    Cycling in rural areas is for the brave in my opinion. Single cyclists not so much but a tightly bunched 2 or 3 abreast group always looks risky to me.
    If people want to do it then it's none of my business

    Just lay off the delivery vehicles. These guys are working from 6 am to 10pm in some cases. Parking in cities is impossible for every delivery address. It's something that will not change. It's not their fault


  • #1729
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,213 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    EddieN75 wrote: »
    Cycling in rural areas is for the brave in my opinion. Single cyclists not so much but a tightly bunched 2 or 3 abreast group always looks risky to me.
    i do most of my (solo) cycling in the country and i would hazard a guess that it's much safer than urban cycling. with group cycling i suspect you'd be more at risk from the bunch cycling itself than you would be from motorised vehicles. either way, probably still safer than urban cycling.


  • #1730
    EddieN75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 467 ✭✭EddieN75


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i do most of my (solo) cycling in the country and i would hazard a guess that it's much safer than urban cycling. with group cycling i suspect you'd be more at risk from the bunch cycling itself than you would be from motorised vehicles. either way, probably still safer than urban cycling.

    Possibly so. I don't have the experience of both so it was only an observation.

    Have you done much cycling around Dublin for example


  • #1731
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 53,213 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i used to cycle, prior to lockdown, from glasnevin to leopardstown for work. not city centre cycling though.


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  • #1732
    EddieN75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 467 ✭✭EddieN75


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i used to cycle, prior to lockdown, from glasnevin to leopardstown for work. not city centre cycling though.

    Up around the quays pre Covid would be hell I would imagine


  • #1733
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,599 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Why are so many cyclists so against anything like helmets that they see as deterring people from cycling. Surely they should just be happy that they themselves cycle, or is there a reason that they want so many more cyclists that isnt being explained here ? Surely keeping it a niche benefits them with more bike rack spaces and free-er cycle paths

    As a motorists I don't want anything deterring people from cycling. It simply means less cars - less tail backs.

    What I do find bizarre is some motorists rage at cyclists not wearing helmets. It's comparable to cyclist raging at motorist for not wearing gum shields and knee pads.


  • #1734
    doiredoire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 120 ✭✭doiredoire


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Why are so many cyclists so against anything like helmets that they see as deterring people from cycling. Surely they should just be happy that they themselves cycle, or is there a reason that they want so many more cyclists that isnt being explained here ? Surely keeping it a niche benefits them with more bike rack spaces and free-er cycle paths

    Do you think before you post?


  • #1735
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,350 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    85603 wrote: »
    You want pedestrian insurance??

    :pac:

    You said "Road users need insurance". Pedestrians use roads.

    So YOU want pedestrians to have insurance.

    Does it sound a bit silly now?


  • #1736
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,350 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I think without a doubt some sort of tax has to be applied on cyclists principally for new infrastructure. It will happen soon enough, it's just a case of how best to the levy charges. There is no free lunch.

    Any thoughts on what sort of tax has to be applied on pedestrians principally for new footpaths - no free lunch etc etc?


  • #1737
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,350 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    85603 wrote: »
    Well pedestrian insurance would be a bit excessive.
    Im sure you agree.

    Cyclists are travelling at speed, on roads, accidents are inevitable.
    So insurance is a reasonable ask.

    Pedestrians cause collisions every day. Far more pedestrians are killed on the road than cyclists.

    So why exactly would insurance be "reasonable" for cyclists but not for pedestrians?

    Please show you workings, as they say.


  • #1738
    Effects
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,741 ✭✭✭Effects


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Any thoughts on what sort of tax has to be applied on pedestrians principally for new footpaths - no free lunch etc etc?

    To be honest, it's not really fair that pedestrians pay no footpath tax, yet they get sole use of the footpath. It should be opened up for cars to drive on them if they like, seeing as they are paying the motor tax that pays for all the roads.


  • #1739
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,468 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    EddieN75 wrote: »

    Roads are for cars, etc
    Their original purpose was for pedestrians, horses and carts. Bicycles outnumbered cars for a significant part of the time both have "been on the road"


  • #1740
    Sono Topolino
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 509 ✭✭✭Sono Topolino


    I'm returning to Dublin after 10 May and I'm really not looking forward to the traffic.

    Protected and segregated cycle lanes in cities are essential.

    I'm happy to pay more taxes for this as long as cyclists pay their fair share.


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  • #1741
    Effects
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,741 ✭✭✭Effects


    EddieN75 wrote: »
    If he had blocked the cycle lane would the cyclists have seen bothered by it?

    I often get bothered by van drivers blocking cycle lanes. A lot of the time it's to save themselves 20 seconds at most, but they don't care about how much more it inconveniences someone else.


This discussion has been closed.
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